Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates)

[JT AM da real deal]

Thanks for your insight, it's very interesting. These sound like events happening during the lock-down...but there were already plenty of people movement into and out of Wuhan before the lock-down.

Too many. One of big reasons why most of us find it hard to trust anything from them. The powerful people always get out. The rich, da elite politicians, da smartest etc. It is most of us regular folks who always get the screw over.

 

[leburn98]

Woah.

The impact isn’t just deaths as a direct result from Coronavirus.

There are massive ripples.

If you went with the do nothing approach, ICU beds would be overwhelmed by 3-5k.

You go in with a stroke or a heart attack or internal bleeding ... you have no ICU bed and equipment. You die too.

We are already seeing surgeries cancelled based on the demands the system has now.

No bypass or stent surgery. No skin cancers removed. Other cancer surgeries to remove tumours. No transplants. No screenings for things like breast and colon cancer.

‘I’m kind of scared’: Surgery for cancer patients and others cancelled as hospitals brace for possible COVID-19 wave

Imagine the impact after 2 years.

Big picture folks. Big picture.

It's pretty clear that certain individuals are not looking big picture here. On the surface, 100K deaths over a 2 year period may not seem as devastating overall, the models do not take in to account the deaths caused indirectly due to the virus. The models presented are only discussing deaths, they do not include people who required ICU care and recovered. This puts a massive strain on the health care system to the point where it begins to effect other medical procedures as you pointed out.

Even if you factor in 100K COVID-19 deaths, that number could be much higher if you factored in deaths that indirectly were caused by COVID-19.

 

[Walshy7]

I'm retirement age, will have little opportunity to recoup the loses.

So I'll live much lighter and hopefully much longer!

I'd rather be living poor than a wealthy corpse.

there is no point having a uhaul following your hearse

 

[rumman]

there is no point having a uhaul following your hearse

yup, as the saying goes: "no trailer hitch on a hearse.............."

 

[Walshy7]

yup, as the saying goes: "no trailer hitch on a hearse.............."

ah same saying but said differently i always find that interesting, in Australia (possibly UK too) we say what i said its pretty interesting to slight differences between countries on the same sayings like that.

 

[Big Muddy]

Woah.

The impact isn’t just deaths as a direct result from Coronavirus.

There are massive ripples.

If you went with the do nothing approach, ICU beds would be overwhelmed by 3-5k.

You go in with a stroke or a heart attack or internal bleeding ... you have no ICU bed and equipment. You die too.

We are already seeing surgeries cancelled based on the demands the system has now.

No bypass or stent surgery. No skin cancers removed. Other cancer surgeries to remove tumours. No transplants. No screenings for things like breast and colon cancer.

‘I’m kind of scared’: Surgery for cancer patients and others cancelled as hospitals brace for possible COVID-19 wave

Imagine the impact after 2 years.

Big picture folks. Big picture.

This is what is happening in NYC now. They are already starting to triage patients (they don't use that term). Infants needing heart surgery are already being put in the line up to wait for an operation.

 

[Mess]

The only disgrace here is the lack of will of the people to find a better solution that does not cause the collapse of civilization. 100,000 will be nothing compared to coming collapse. It will be a drop in the hat, not to mention the obviously wars that will be announced within a year I assure you. Your weak anti-competitive response to this virus is testament to all that has gone wrong with our Civilization. Just wait until people are killing for food and you will reflect and say, wave spelled it out and was right all along. You will, understand why human beings do not function in a bubble for extended periods and you will be brought to tears for all that you've lost.

Speaking strictly hypothetically here to make a point only.

While typing 100,000 might seem like a relatively small number as a % of the population, but you have to realize those are actual lives we're talking here.

What If, those 100,000 deaths hit close to home to yourself and among that number was your child, wife, parents or even grand parents that were among that number?

What if it was YOU yourself that was one of those 100,000 lost, for the sake of the economy?

Does that change your perception, and wouldn't you want your government to do everything within their power to save your life or those of your beloved family members?

The majority of the population would always sacrifice the economy or the $ for the sake of a precious human life. You can always restore an economy after a natural disaster, you can't bring back any of those lost souls.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is what is happening in NYC now. They are already starting to triage patients (they don't use that term). Infants needing heart surgery are already being put in the line up to wait for an operation.

Some heart warming news over 10,000 health care professionals in the northeast US have come to help out da people of NYC ... big congrats to every one of them and to da hotels in da city who are housing them

 

[Big Muddy]

The fact that critical infrastructure equipment/repair parts/electronics at power plants, water treatment facilities, hospitals, medical manufacturing facilities, etc. are often solely sourced to China has always been inexplicable to me.

Very true.

I think this will trigger a rethink of outsourcing as well as lean inventory management... particularly for critical supplies.

hopefully this will be a wake up call, at least for those who survive this thing?

Saw an interesting factoid the other day. IIRC, the amount of money the medical industry got in the CARES Act (U.S. corona virus stimulus bill) is equal to the cost of eight F-35 jet fighters. Which of the two expenditures protects lives more?

 

[thewave]

Speaking strictly hypothetically here to make a point only.

While typing 100,000 might seem like a relatively small number as a % of the population, but you have to realize those are actual lives we're talking here.

What If, those 100,000 deaths hit close to home to yourself and among that number was your child, wife, parents or even grand parents that were among that number?

What if it was YOU yourself that was one of those 100,000 lost, for the sake of the economy?

Does that change your perception, and wouldn't you want your government to do everything within their power to save your life or those of your beloved family members?

Mess you know as well as I do that the cost to society when poverty sets in and mental illness sets in from lock down will lead to theft crime and chaos. In China, Wuhan they have massive divorce spikes alone right now. Do you think people can handle two years? Honestly? I don't even care about myself at this point, it's the kids. Do you know how many isolation facilities you could build for 100 billion? You could protect most all vulnerable classes of people and probably get that number way down alone, they have not presented alternatives or asked about holding a referendum. Chloroquine is said to be 90% or so effective, we could have it on the ready and still keep going. It could be issued to everyone.

 

[Big Muddy]

Are you with Wilson?

Wonder if the person will get the implications.

George Santayana
"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Big Muddy]

Some heart warming news over 10,000 health care professionals in the northeast US have come to help out da people of NYC ... big congrats to every one of them and to da hotels in da city who are housing them

Yes, good news - thankfully.

 

[Mess]

Mess you know as well as I do that the cost to society when poverty sets in and mental illness sets in from lock down will lead to theft crime and chaos. In China, Wuhan they have massive divorce spikes alone right now. Do you think people can handle two years? Honestly? I don't even care about myself at this point, it's the kids. Do you know how many isolation facilities you could build for 100 billion? You could protect most all vulnerable classes of people and probably get that number way down alone, they have not presented alternatives or asked about holding a referendum. Chloroquine is said to be 90% or so effective, we could have it on the ready and still keep going. It could be issued to everyone.

There is no question life as we knew it will be different after this passes. There will be lots of hardship as a fallout of this pandemic and shutting down the economy but saving human lives will always be the highest priority.

One of the main reasons however that the final outcome on society being worse than it has to be, is because people are not doing everything now in their power individually as responsible people to lesson that impact.. Those that are, are not only focusing on human lives saved, but also the economy at the same time when they shelter at home, and self isolate and let this pass as quick as possible.

The resistance (lets call them) is actually risking more lives now and also prolonging the economy recovery by months by dragging it out into extended times now, which keeps the shutdown in effect because the virus continues to spread rather than being defeated.

The world is working on a vaccine as fast as possible to help save lives and return to normalcy, what is happening now is buying them time and trying to save as many lives in the process. In fact those 15 minute tests we were discussing earlier are a step once mass production occurs which will allow those that are negative or have already been infected and recovered making the antibodies themselves will be able to return to the work force.

The goal isn't to isolate the most vulnerable, its really about isolating those infected from the mass world population that isn't, to return the economy ASAP.

 

[al secord]

There is no question life as we knew it will be different after this passes. There will be lots of hardship as a fallout of this pandemic and shutting down the economy but saving human lives will always be the highest priority.

One of the main reasons however that the final outcome on society being worse than it has to be, is because people are not doing everything now in their power individually as responsible people to lesson that impact.. Those that are, are not only focusing on human lives saved, but also the economy at the same time when they shelter at home, and self isolate and let this pass as quick as possible.

The resistance (lets call them) is actually risking more lives now and also prolonging the economy recovery by months by dragging it out into extended times now, which keeps the shutdown in effect because the virus continues to spread rather than being defeated.

The world is working on a vaccine as fast as possible to help save lives and return to normalcy, what is happening now is buying them time and trying to save as many lives in the process.

Well said.

 

[NorCalhockey]

The whole world is calling them out on their so-called stats.

Who wants to deal with this state anyway when they have cost so much misery around the globe.

Their human rights abuses are well known to all.

Time to bite the bullet and trade elsewhere.

Edit

How do you deal toughly with your banker?' This was the not quite rhetorical question that Hillary Clinton asked Australia’s then-prime minister Kevin Rudd at a lunch back in 2010. In the prophylactic language of the diplomat she was then, Clinton was asking how the world should deal with an ever more aggressive China, and she was prescient. Ten years on, Beijing is ascendant. It holds over a trillion dollars of US debt (banker indeed); as of writing, one of its major companies are set to control Britain’s 5G network, and it has spent years hoovering up Africa’s resources with little care for the (admittedly scant) international condemnation it receives or the human rights it violates so egregiously along the way.

As the old adage goes: if you owe the bank a million dollars, you have a problem; if you owe the bank a billion dollars, the bank has a problem. China is THE major creditor to the US. The relationship between the US and China is toxic due to co-dependency: US needs China to buy US debt, while China needs the US to remain a viable nation because the US is China's # 1 trading partner.

Now, through a mixture of quixotic dietary regulations and systematic evasion, it has helped to unleash COVID-19 on the world. We sit imprisoned indoors while the economy withers; every day thousands die from a disease that likely originated in one of the Chinese city of Wuhan’s ‘wet’ markets, those notorious graveyards of food hygiene. On discovering they were facing an epidemic (it was then not quite yet a pandemic) the ruling Communist Party chiefs covered it up; and then imprisoned, gagged and persecuted anyone who dared speak up about what they knew was coming to us all.

And that was just the beginning. As the weeks have rolled on and Beijing has begun to get the virus under control (after imposing the kind of total lockdowns only possible with the vertiginous autocratic powers it has at its disposal) the focus has turned to something else: spin. If you thought Russia was good at muddying its crimes with state-sponsored lies and diversionary tactics meet Beijing in the age of the coronavirus.
China is in full propagandist mode – by both word and deed. Eager to distract from its own culpability, it now sends millions of face masks to Europe alongside doctors and medical experts of varying stripes, especially the desperately needed epidemiologists. Companies like Huawei are suddenly major crisis donors. President Xi Jinping recently told Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte that he hopes to create a 'health Silk Road' from China to Europe. Beijing has become a whir of philanthropy. But this 'mask diplomacy' is bogus. For a start, what they send often just causes problems. Spain and the Czech Republic are throwing out thousands of testing kits sent by China that don’t work properly. Turkey claims their Chinese-made kits are yielding inaccurate results while Holland says almost half the kits it has received are faulty.

Right - soft power to project influence and well, "power". IMO, the "health Silk Road" is a crisis-induced version of China's "Belt & Road" initiative. The sad thing is, far too many countries need China to build (or assist in building) their infrastructure because no other countries care to take the long-view in regards to the potential that could arise from making these major investments. Africa, especially, has been the recipient of China's "largesse". Of course, those nations that welcome China are probably simultaneously resentful of their dependence on China as well. But, by and large, they feel no choice but to accept the largesse because they see it as a way to modernize their economy. (Well, that, and The Powers That Be in the recipient nations also rely on graft/corruption to line their own pockets). My understanding is that not only is China laying the groundwork for a positive future relationship with these nations, but China actually takes partial (whole?) ownership of the infrastructure they helped to build. This ownership either occurs at the outset, or, if those nations can't pay back the debt to China for their assistance, China will then take "payment" in the form of ownership of the roads/airports/shipyards etc. they helped build.
I believe it was Indonesia? that a while ago, declined Chinese investment. They see it for the trap is, and would rather try to make it on their own to join the First/Second World, than potentially have China owning them.

And alongside Chinese 'aid' comes to the unfettered but clear propagandist rebuke: we have to step in because you won’t. Unsurprisingly, this makes the Europeans furious. 'France just sent a million masks to Italy. As many as China did. Time to stop EU-bashing' said a Macron aide recently. Germany, accused by fellow EU states of ignoring their suffering, now sends ventilators to Italy and takes in patients from overstretched hospitals in Alsace – while making sure everyone knows what it’s doing of course. In the midst of the greatest health crisis of the modern age, the #Corona wars are playing out, in our hearts and minds and on our (donated) ventilators.

Then there is the flat out lies, which come on an industrial scale and from the highest levels and daily. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian now regularly claims that the US military engineered the coronavirus to infect Chinese citizens – a narrative several embassy Twitter accounts have picked up and peddled. This is the Kremlification of Beijing’s messaging. This is the Chinese Communist Party-state in the contemporary moment. From Confucius to confusing us: disinformation with a Chinese twist.

It's sad - but very predictable that nations will play the blame game. They have to in order to distract their own citizens from their culpability/corruption/incompetence that could have been mitigated if not for the actions/inaction of their government. And US, this means you too.

True, we must shoulder some responsibility ourselves. We were due to a plague. 'There is a very real threat of a rapidly moving, highly lethal pandemic of a respiratory pathogen killing 50 to 80 million people,' said the first annual report of the Global Preparedness Monitoring Board (an independent panel of experts convened by the World Bank and the World Health Organization) - in 2019. We were warned – repeatedly, and we failed to listen. True also, we have not acted quite as we should since things began. We most likely should have gone into isolation sooner; we should have hunkered down faster. The government’s reluctance to force us into our homes is to its credit (an act that especially sits ill with the Prime Minister’s liberal instincts) but it was probably a mistake.

Nevertheless, we are here because of China. Against this fact, there can be no retreat. The Mail on Sunday reports that No.10 is now rethinking the Huawei 5G contract and plans a diplomatic 'deep freeze' with Beijing until it reforms. The world is angry. But will it stay that way? Will the desire for a reckoning remain six months or a year down the line once the crisis has passed and thoughts naturally turn to renewal? I think it must. I think it is both a political and a moral imperative to make sure that it does because by then I think it will be a question of national self-determination. If we really want to understand how robust our politics is, and if we really want to understand where the global balance of power truly lies, it will become clear when all this ends.

"May you live in interesting times" indeed. As with so many other events (WW2, 9/11 attacks, etc.) which had a profound effect on peoples' lives nearly the world over, I wonder how COVID-19 will shape/reshape the world.

We ignored China’s threats over 5G. We ignored its imprisonment of over a million Uighurs. In truth, we have ignored pretty much every crime it commits. We cannot ignore its role in COVID-19. If we do, it will be an unequivocal admission that the West will not now or ever stand up to China. And if this happens, then, 25 years into the digital revolution, we will have finally come to understand the true cost of virility.

Re: ignoring so many other atrocities committed by China, well, is it really surprising that other countries might make some noises about these crimes, but not actually risk their relationship with China unless those countries are directly impacted? Leaders in other countries would have a hard sell to their people if they advocated confronting China if their people don't see the direct harm to their own lives. As you say, COVID-19 might just be the game changer that means people can no longer look away.

ETA: I'm so glad China itself doesn't touch on the Arctic. US, Canada, Russia (and I think Greenland/Denmark) will be fighting over the resources of this "final frontier" in the decades to come. Of course China will try to muscle into this as well (who knows what wealth can be extracted now that the polar ice caps are melting and receding?), but as long as there is no actual territorial claim, they would have a weaker argument. As it is, China claims that because they are "Arctic adjacent" they have some skin in the game. LOL, as the kids might say.


Written by David Patrikarakos
David Patrikarakos is an author and journalist. His latest book is War in 140 Characters: How Social Media is Reshaping Conflict in the Twenty-First Century

 

[Pookie]

When society and civility break down you will wish for 100k only. What distinguishes us from Pioneers is they died in the fields knowing full well they have a place in Heaven waiting for them and that their sacrifice would make way for the next generation. What I see on display is that this generation does not have the intestinal fortitude to make a sacrifice, or even think outside the box. They will however, support missions to foreign nations like Iraq (estimated 1,000,000 lives lost due to all factors from the wars) or Libya complete loss of their way of life because of Canada leading the air strikes. Support buying iPhones @ $1000+ made by child laborers in China.

It's sad, but there are always other ways though, as an INTJ, the Architect I have always used my head to innovate and invent. I would be already in the process of designing and building quarantine care facilities or retrofitting and creating supply chains specifically for delivery of safe goods to vulnerable people. It's a lot better than this and destroying the childhoods of hundreds of thousands and don't kid yourself, war is coming too. That will be next. Don't forget the marriages that are about to dissolve just like in Wuhan. Good luck with the mess.

My last opinion, I hope they come to their senses and truly grasp the big picture costs of these measures. I hope I am wrong. Doubt it.

Just consider the alternative...

What type of society would it be if we sat by and did nothing as a 100,000 Ontarians and just died (remember - cancer surgeries, heart operations, transplants, etc are all postponed based on the demands on the system). And then recall that many of those deaths were preventable.

Would you want to live in that world?

I'm a dude who suffers from anxiety (like many others... Bell let's talk anytime) and there are ways to cope with this. Tools and strategies. I speak from experience. I didn't think I could handle it and a few years ago, I may not have been able. But in this moment... I am and I will.

All of those things you mention about different ways to live with this should be considered. We have to protect our people AND find a way to carry on. The Key is finding different ways to live with it because just going about the way it was is not an option.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

As far as we know there has been NO anarchy anywhere in world yet.

Wuhan can't even count its dead properly so no one would know if divorces are up or down. I would GUESS they would be down because people are spending more time getting to know there partners recently.

Even in Italy there are no riots after going through the WORST times of anybody. People are banging kitchen utensils supporting their health care professionals.

Keep following protocols please. It is the only thing we can do. Although I don't agree with Trump on much of anything I do agree if someone is really sick why not try an established safe drug. What is da harm? and I do think we should have been building safe places for our sick and elderly to help isolate them. To me that was one thing we could have done and we did not.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

 

[Mess]

Mess you know as well as I do that the cost to society when poverty sets in and mental illness sets in from lock down will lead to theft crime and chaos. In China, Wuhan they have massive divorce spikes alone right now. Do you think people can handle two years? Honestly? I don't even care about myself at this point, it's the kids. Do you know how many isolation facilities you could build for 100 billion? You could protect most all vulnerable classes of people and probably get that number way down alone, they have not presented alternatives or asked about holding a referendum. Chloroquine is said to be 90% or so effective, we could have it on the ready and still keep going. It could be issued to everyone.

No offense intended, but I believe you have your priorities reversed even if your intention is to dampen the impact on society.

Saving Lives >>> Saving Economy .. Whereas do nothing and toss away millions of lives needlessly and recklessly for the sake of the economy is not the best course of action.

Testing, testing, testing!!!

You have the right idea of tossing $$ at the problem to build isolation facilities, but you again seem to have your target reversed.. You want to quarantine the healthy but most vulnerable away from the world, while letting the infected run free going back to work infecting others and taking more lives in the process.

Once testing is up to speed and results returned in minutes in mass qualtities, as to who is sick and who is healthy, then it should be the sick those WITH Coronavirus that should be isolated in those 100 billion facilities you want built, while the healthy go back to work to restore the economy to normalcy. You isolate the sick not the healthy, and until we know who is who here, we have to self isolate at home in the best interest of life preservation.

Once there is a vaccine available the sick and/or recovered can return to the work force again also.

The way to win this war is to get as few people as humanly possible from getting sick in the first place and keeping the invisible enemy at bay. Self isolation is already a proven remedy that helps defeat the enemy as it disrupts and slows the spread.

 

[thewave]

Just consider the alternative...

What type of society would it be if we sat by and did nothing as a 100,000 Ontarians and just died (remember - cancer surgeries, heart operations, transplants, etc are all postponed based on the demands on the system). And then recall that many of those deaths were preventable.

Would you want to live in that world?

I'm a dude who suffers from anxiety (like many others... Bell let's talk anytime) and there are ways to cope with this. Tools and strategies. I speak from experience. I didn't think I could handle it and a few years ago, I may not have been able. But in this moment... I am and I will.

All of those things you mention about different ways to live with this should be considered. We have to protect our people AND find a way to carry on. The Key is finding different ways to live with it because just going about the way it was is not an option.

Yes we need to find an alternative quickly that supports normalcy for the youth. Destroying their perception of civilization is not healthy nor is listening to multiple families parents yelling and screaming at each other down the street. I am just pleading Pookie, that people look at that 100k figure as worse case and... Take the 100k - Estimate the reduction if isolating vulnerable with supporting services, if the number is in the 30k range vs the estimated 3-15k range as is now with lockdown measures, you simply have to do it. People under duress (locked in a home fits!) have weakened immune systems. Not a good thing, so more people are going to die that way as well. What they have put forth is absolutely not the best way to do this, there is no doubt in my mind that's the case.

I will say it again, they are using the Nuclear option to squash a bug.

Normal

Identify
Isolate
Inform
Mitigate

World response

Identify
Obfuscate
Confuse
Apply blanket solution to a problem that will ultimately effect 0.667% at worse.

Not rational at all.

 

[Legion34]

here is the issue that I have though. I have worked in the system since 2006. I can tell you that at every turn. Funding has been cut. We have been told there is no money for breaks, extra staff, security measures.


Health care is intrinsically linked to public funding. There are HOURS a day, multiple times a week, where there are no ambulances on the road for 500k people.... and Ford was still. Cutting. Still. Police/ems/fire/hospital all have no money.

Ford cut millions from emergency services like 3 months ago.


Now we expect the government can afford 100 billion? And we will be able to afford all this healthcare?


Why are we using. Old equipment now? If there was 100 billion dollars, why are there no police/ambulances? Why are people waiting on stretchers and being treated in hallways?


Why didn’t the use 10 billion dollars to provide proper services?

from 13 years in the system I have serious concerns about my job etc after this. Provided I don’t die from it from the job... are we really expecting. That the government, who couldn’t afford to put ambulances on the street will have public funding after this?
2 years later the healthcare ramifications will be unimaginable unless they have been lying the whole time.

we have 100 billion dollars to drop.... but we couldn’t afford masks?

We are so worried about ICU beds, and we should be...... but why weren’t we worried last year? Why were we cutting when we had. 100 billion dollars? Why isn’t there more beds?

 

[al secord]

Hey look! A totally new account.

 

[thewave]

No offense intended, but I believe you have your priorities reversed even if your intention is to dampen the impact on society.

Saving Lives >>> Saving Economy .. Whereas do nothing and toss away millions of lives needlessly and recklessly for the sake of the economy is not the best course of action.

Testing, testing, testing!!!

You have the right idea of tossing $$ at the problem to build isolation facilities, but you again you seem to have your target reversed.. You want to quarantine the healthy but most vulnerable away from the world, while letting the infected run free going back to work infecting others and taking more lives in the process.

Once testing is up to speed and results returned in minutes in mass qualtities, as to who is sick and who is healthy, then it should be the sick those WITH Coronavirus that should be isolated in those 100 billion facilities you want built, while the healthy go back to work to restore the economy to normalcy. You isolate the sick not the healthy, and until we know who is who here, we have to self isolate at home in the best interest of life preservation.

Once there is a vaccine available the sick and/or recovered can return to the work force again also.

The way to win this war is to get as few people as humanly possible from getting sick in the first place and keeping the invisible enemy at bay. Self isolation is already a proven remedy that helps defeat the enemy as it disrupts the spread.

Basically, we differ on the opinion that... I believe the collapse of the economy and support services will lead to more death than the virus itself. I believe that the lack of services will lower life expectancy and it will all be a net negative for Humanity. The lack of money will cause starvation, people not to be able to be nourished. Farmers will stop producing food as much as machines are broken and can not be repaired. If you macro wargame this thing, it's a nightmare.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

here is the issue that I have though. I have worked in the system since 2006. I can tell you that at every turn. Funding has been cut. We have been told there is no money for breaks, extra staff, security measures.


Health care is intrinsically linked to public funding. There are HOURS a day, multiple times a week, where there are no ambulances on the road for 500k people.... and Ford was still. Cutting. Still. Police/ems/fire/hospital all have no money.

Ford cut millions from emergency services like 3 months ago.


Now we expect the government can afford 100 billion? And we will be able to afford all this healthcare?


Why are we using. Old equipment now? If there was 100 billion dollars, why are there no police/ambulances? Why are people waiting on stretchers and being treated in hallways?


Why didn’t the use 10 billion dollars to provide proper services?

from 13 years in the system I have serious concerns about my job etc after this. Provided I don’t die from it from the job... are we really expecting. That the government, who couldn’t afford to put ambulances on the street will have public funding after this?
2 years later the healthcare ramifications will be unimaginable unless they have been lying the whole time.

we have 100 billion dollars to drop.... but we couldn’t afford masks?

I am not a Ford guy myself. I think you need balance in life and by extension in GOVT. Clearly we are VERY short on needed masks, gowns, face shields and ventilators. Clearly we missed on proper health care spending and personnel. But this is where we are at today. It is not just us who missed. Most of world like places like Italy and Spain massively missed too. After this is over we need to properly spend. But please keep da faith and do everyone you can do. We will figure it out. If anything I think we will massively overspend after this virus and that is ok too.

 

[PromisedLand]