Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates)

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Jojalu

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
5,900
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They could just convert the arenas into an ICU building. Lets think about this...

High Schools can become makeshift ICU (Not like kids go there anymore anyways)
Closed stores
Banquet Halls can become ICU
Arenas
Universities

It's not hard if you have an imagination. That's why I think the measures are stupid or perhaps the people running the governments of the world are just so dumb and I am genius. Am I a genius? Maybe comparatively all things considered.


Haha.

I generally disagree with you but I do believe it will lead to that.

While I certainly agree with you about the chance there will never be a vaccine, I think the measures were an absolute must to start.

It buys time to gather information and mitigate the damage.

It is such a shock to the entire world. Cris management is the top priority. Then you can create a plan to start society up again.

Most would agree there will be some real changes made to how we used to live our daily lives.
 

Cor

I am a bot
Jun 24, 2012
69,648
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AEF
Man, this is wild.

So much has changed

So many people are no longer working. So many factors in the economy have shut down

Every major sport league has shut down

Life and society as we know it is over. It’s all changed
 
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Sens

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
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so you think "riding it out" with 100,000 deaths would have no effect on the economy?

I think it would have done less damage... there’s going to be war(s) now to stimulate the economy... not to mention the millions of homes foreclosing

society as we knew it is over now
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,239
8,315
Money is basically a "medium of exchange"; we use it to trade the goods/services and our labour.

Back in the day it was the barter system; money is a "legal tender" where a nation has said that yes you can use this "piece of paper" to exchange goods/services and labour.

Monetary authorities can easy pump more money to maintain the basic needs (food, water, shelter, medical help) and in today's world (internet/cell-phone); other than that any other thing is just extra which we do not need.

I hope it doesn't come to two years; but if it does then so be it; we will try to make it work.

We don't need that new Iphone or that brand new car today those are "wants" not "needs"; we have to make sure needs are met wants can wait.

Also, the current scenario is not like the great depression, it is like a natural disaster from which we will try to recover - as global demand recovers. Major countries in the world are following the same protocol; it is not like they are demanding that new phone right now; people in other countries are also on semi-lockdown and staying home.

You don't have to take my word for it listen to former chair of the Fed
Former Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke sees 'very sharp' recession, followed by 'fairly quick' rebound

Furthermore, with modern technology there are many studies being conducted to combat the virus

For example, one of the recent study in the States
'Pandemic' scientist says his team has discovered potential cure for COVID-19

I think we will find some kind of medical treatment - if not the cure/vaccine-- soon enough and then we can open the economy for business.

Banks can forgo their "profits" for time being; just work on zero profits; the difference to be covered by monetary authorities for example.

Long story short, without healthy people we don't have healthy workforce/labour, and without healthy workforce/labour we will never have a healthy economy.

It is people that make the economy, it isn't economy that makes the people.

except “money” is a major reason we are in this mess.

we don’t have enough ambulances because of money. We don’t have enough ventilators because of money.

we don’t have PPE because of money. We have e been at risk for Months because of money. The government chose to take 360 million out of our system.

we don’t have ambulances on the road. I have literally went months without a lunch break.

I have been in the system for 13 years. I see the day to day impact of funding on the system


So now money just doesn’t matter? because it’s a virus.

if it was a virus instead of mortgage bonds. Would Detroit be fine?

I fully understand that if we can get this done quick it will bounce back. But the crime poverty drug rate in a long term quarantine will be massive
 

Sens

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
6,086
2,550
I like how they close down dispensaries tomorrow

the lines are going to be absolutely insane especially with trying to keep social distancing and only allowing a few people in at a time

guaranteed 500 person spine in Corona tomorrow and who knows where that leads.., they say be careful and then do something so f***ing stupid like that

What a joke
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
12,559
8,678
Man, this is wild.

So much has changed

So many people are no longer working. So many factors in the economy have shut down

Every major sport league has shut down

Life and society as we know it is over. It’s all changed

But folks are still talking about some revamped playoff format for the NHL to finish this season off...:sarcasm:
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
84,245
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Mountain Standard Ti
Visit site
except “money” is a major reason we are in this mess.

we don’t have enough ambulances because of money. We don’t have enough ventilators because of money.

we don’t have PPE because of money. We have e been at risk for Months because of money. The government chose to take 360 million out of our system.

we don’t have ambulances on the road. I have literally went months without a lunch break.

I have been in the system for 13 years. I see the day to day impact of funding on the system


So now money just doesn’t matter? because it’s a virus.

if it was a virus instead of mortgage bonds. Would Detroit be fine?

I fully understand that if we can get this done quick it will bounce back. But the crime poverty drug rate in a long term quarantine will be massive

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/c07...4/download/health-ahs-review-final-report.pdf

Are ambulances used for inter-facility transfers? That work was outsourced in Ontario correct?

Government services are always target for cuts.
 

CelticDruid

Registered User
Oct 23, 2013
7,303
6,170
Penticton , BC
WHO boss supported by China is now giving the nation too much credit on coronavirus, critics claim

WHO boss supported by China is now giving the nation too much credit on coronavirus, critics claim

TELEMMGLPICT000144351409_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfy2dmClwgbjjulYfPTELibA.jpegimwidth=480

If the World Health Organisation’s verdict is to be believed, China’s behavior in the coronavirus crisis has been exemplary.
Officials who returned from a “joint mission” to the country in February described how China had “rolled out perhaps the most ambitious, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history”.
WHO’s director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, claimed that China’s lockdown strategy had “bought time for the world”.
However, concerns are now growing that far from buying time, China has put the world on the back foot by publishing data about the spread of the disease that is at best inconsistent and at worst heavily massaged.

It has also been accused of silencing whistle-blowers and overlooking early evidence of the infectiousness of the disease.

TELEMMGLPICT000227527524_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpegimwidth=480

Chinese President Xi Jinping waves to residents on a visit to Wuhan in March Credit: Xinhua/Reuters
Chinese authorities have changed the way they count coronavirus cases no less than eight times since the outbreak began, and only this week started counting asymptomatic cases in its official statistics.
When the daily counts started in January, China’s National Health Commission’s definition of a coronavirus case was much more restrictive than it is now.
Patients only qualified as suspected cases if they displayed all four of a list of specific symptoms - including pneumonia indicated by a chest radiograph – and had also either traveled or had indirect contact with a Wuhan market within the previous fortnight.

Inevitably, tens of thousands of milder cases of coronavirus slipped through unrecorded.
Even now that the definition has been tightened, senior politicians and US intelligence have expressed concerns that the statistics released by China may be fiction.
Certainly, the statistics look out of kilter. China was affected weeks before any other nation but has only reported around 82,500 cases so far.

By comparison, the US which had its first coronavirus case in mid-January has reported more than 245,000 – more than three times China’s figure, according to data collated by Johns Hopkins University in America. The UK, whose population is less than five percent of China’s – and which has lagged far behind on testing - has already reported 34,173 cases. This is 41 percent of China’s total.
Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith, an outspoken China critic, told the Telegraph: "There has already been a hit on the Chinese economy as a result of this, so their desperate concern is to alleviate that as quickly as possible - and my concern is that in that drive to do so, the figures for what is happening in China are being obscured.”

He added: “I really don’t believe these figures. I think they’ve suppressed it massively.”
A WHO spokesman said: “WHO’s mandate is to keep all people safe everywhere and this is what our scientists and public health experts are doing. The membership of the UN is decided by the countries. This does not affect WHO’s mandate as an evidence-based organization that safeguards the global public health.”
Allies of Dr Tedros point to the fact that, as the former health minister then foreign minister of Ethiopia, he is naturally given to diplomacy – and that praising China ensures the nation continues sharing critical information.

However, critics note that China was highly influential in him gaining the position in the first place.
According to reports, Chinese diplomats campaigned hard for him in the 2017 leadership election, using the promise of Beijing’s financial muscle to put pressure on developing countries to do the same – helping him to stave off competition from Britain’s David Nabarro.

The official toll of the number of cases is not the only point of information that has shaped the way other countries prepared for coronavirus. Chinese authorities also peddled the line that there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission - apparently overlooking early signs that patients were catching it from each other.
A paper published in The Lancet and co-authored by doctors who worked at Jin Yin-tan hospital in Wuhan noted that the wife of the very first patient to die of coronavirus also "presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward”.

The study - Clinical features of patients infected with 2019 novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China - stops short of saying she caught coronavirus from him, but points out that she had “no known history of exposure to the market”.
The same study also claims that just one of the four earliest known coronavirus patients had links to Huanan Seafood Market - casting doubt on the popular notion advanced in Wuhan that the disease originated in wet markets.

There, a shrimp seller named Wei Guixian was identified by the Wall Street Journal as one of the very first patients, after she began experiencing symptoms on December 10.
However, experts now believe that the disease began to spread in China much earlier than that. A little-discussed graph in the Lancet paper claims that the first coronavirus patient started feeling the effects of the disease on 1 December – a week and a half earlier.
TELEMMGLPICT000228946595_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpegimwidth=480

Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, has partly lifted the lockdown allowing people to enter the city after more than two months Credit: Roman Pilipey/Shuttershock
Meanwhile, the South China Morning Post claims to have seen confidential government documents that suggest the first confirmed coronavirus patient may have contracted the disease on 17 November. If true, knowing about it early on would have had huge ramifications.
Research by the University of Southampton suggests that 95 percent of infections could have been avoided if China had acted three weeks earlier.

Professor Larry Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on Public Health Law & Human Rights, told the Telegraph: "It delayed for three to four weeks before reporting a novel virus to the WHO which probably cost hundreds of thousands of lives globally…Its record does not deserve praise."

The first whistle-blower was Ai Fen, a senior doctor at Wuhan Central Hospital, who on 30 December posted information about the new virus on the WeChat social media platform.
Later that day, Dr. Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at the same hospital, also posted information on WeChat about the virus he believed to be Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome or Sars.
He and Dr. Ai were both reprimanded, and Dr. Wenliang was instructed by the hospital to write a “reflection” on the spread of false information.

Within two days, the Wuhan Public Security Bureau had reportedly called another eight doctors in for questioning after they discussed the virus on social media. According to Chinese media, the Hubei Provincial Health Commission ordered laboratories that were testing samples for the new virus to stop doing so and to destroy any existing samples they had.
John Mackenzie, a member of the World Health Organisation’s emergency committee and emeritus professor at Curtin University in Australia, told the Financial Times in February that some aspects of China’s response were “reprehensible” and that he believes they tried to “keep the figures quiet for a while”.

Mr. Mackenzie’s misgivings were backed by numerous reports in Chinese media, but Dr Tedros distanced himself from Mr. Mackenzie’s critical remarks.
He said that he could not comment whether or not China had hidden the start of the coronavirus outbreak but that if China did conceal the extent of the outbreak “it really defeats logic” because there would have been a higher number of cases around the world.
That was in February when the number of non-Chinese cases was still “very small”. The global death toll is now around 54,000.
The WHO position is in contrast to the organization’s handling of the 2003 SARS crisis when Gro Harlem Brundtland was director-general.

When the WHO declared a global health alert for SARS, there were just over 150 cases worldwide. When COVID-19 was named a public health emergency of international concern, there were nearly 10,000.
Yanzhong Huang, senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations, and author of a paper on the SARS response said that the WHO did not use the new range of tools that have since been put at its disposal.

“Very often the WHO seems to be downplaying the Chinese response in the early stage of the crisis…It might be diplomatically unwise to criticize [China] but I do believe the WHO could take a more balanced approach."
This is rejected by the WHO, which says that it co-ordinates the international response to COVID-19 in a “transparent way”, publishing on its website information that can help countries and individuals respond to the crisis.

“Part of WHO’s mandate is to inform all member states and we do it both through bilateral exchanges and through weekly briefings where all countries are invited. Throughout the outbreak, there have been regular and frequent meetings and discussions between WHO leadership and technical experts from around the world,” a spokesman said.

Indeed, Dr. Nabarro – who fought Dr. Tedros to become director-general and is now a WHO envoy – suggested that his former opponent may have got the balance right. “When this started, we were able to benefit from china making the structure of the virus available in the public domain extremely quickly and we’re grateful for that and we’re grateful for the information that has been received about the virus.”

“Let’s do all the post mortems of all governments when we’ve got through this. We will all be accountable and that’s how it should be.”
Professor Gostin, who was Dr. Nabarro’s spokesman during the leadership race, was less charitable. “When we look back and see so much praise going towards China and its system will the message be that civil rights aren't as important as we believe them to be? I believe in telling truth to power.'
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
84,245
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Mountain Standard Ti
Visit site
I like how they close down dispensaries tomorrow

the lines are going to be absolutely insane especially with trying to keep social distancing and only allowing a few people in at a time

guaranteed 500 person spine in Corona tomorrow and who knows where that leads.., they say be careful and then do something so f***ing stupid like that

What a joke

It is so easy to grow, and each household can have 4 plants.
If only alcohol was so easy to produce.
 

PromisedLand

I need more FOOD
Dec 3, 2016
43,118
55,765
Hogwarts
except “money” is a major reason we are in this mess.

we don’t have enough ambulances because of money. We don’t have enough ventilators because of money.

we don’t have PPE because of money. We have e been at risk for Months because of money. The government chose to take 360 million out of our system.

we don’t have ambulances on the road. I have literally went months without a lunch break.

I have been in the system for 13 years. I see the day to day impact of funding on the system


So now money just doesn’t matter? because it’s a virus.

if it was a virus instead of mortgage bonds. Would Detroit be fine?

I fully understand that if we can get this done quick it will bounce back. But the crime poverty drug rate in a long term quarantine will be massive

drug is not "free"; it costs dollars. Sensible people who want to put food on their table will always choose food over drugs. Druggies on the other hand will choose drugs whether economy is well or not--- look at the drug crisis in BC.


Money is essential but it really is just a piece of paper; it can be printed by the monetary authorities and give it to the households (in modern world; it is just a digital transaction you don't even need to print money).

Less ambulance or less PPE is because of the lack of foresight and human greed not because of the lack of money; instead of giving tax cuts they could have used the money to have more ambulances and more PPE built up meanwhile putting a price ceiling on essential goods like food and medicine (and may be housing).

This is not news; there has been plenty of recommendations from think tanks to have stock pile of necessary equipment.

I will end this debate because quite frankly I do not want to teach a monetary theory or macroeconomics on the hockey board.

I completely disagree with your opinion because they are unfounded especially when you compare the current crisis to great depression.

You can also disagree with me. We will have to agree to disagree here.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,239
8,315
drug is not "free"; it costs dollars. Sensible people who want to put food on their table will always choose food over drugs. Druggies on the other hand will choose drugs whether economy is well or not--- look at the drug crisis in BC.


Money is essential but it really is just a piece of paper; it can be printed by the monetary authorities and give it to the households (in modern world; it is just a digital transaction you don't even need to print money).

Less ambulance or less PPE is because of the lack of foresight and human greed not because of the lack of money; instead of giving tax cuts they could have used the money to have more ambulances and more PPE built up meanwhile putting a price ceiling on essential goods like food and medicine (and may be housing).

This is not news; there has been plenty of recommendations from think tanks to have stock pile of necessary equipment.

I will end this debate because quite frankly I do not want to teach a monetary theory or macroeconomics on the hockey board.

I completely disagree with your opinion because they are unfounded especially when you compare the current crisis to great depression.

You can also disagree with me. We will have to agree to disagree here.

if you think the government can just pay for everyone to live at home and there will be no issues and the solution is “just print more paper” good lord.

that has been Tried before. It went poorly. Feel free to have these beliefs. I will just go back to work in the real world of budget cuts and poverty and drugs and crisis

wish me luck. Maybe your money printer can make me some PPE
 

The Hanging Jowl

Registered User
Apr 2, 2017
10,452
11,681
I'm of the opinion of dealing with the pandemic first and dealing with what's left of the economy later, triage the hazards...............

Call me cold hearted but I feel way worse for the guy that said he's shuttered his business this morning than the guy two posts above you that tested positive but (unless he's vulnerable) likely has a 1/1000 chance of dying from Covid-19.
 

PromisedLand

I need more FOOD
Dec 3, 2016
43,118
55,765
Hogwarts
if you think the government can just pay for everyone to live at home and there will be no issues and the solution is “just print more paper” good lord.

that has been Tried before. It went poorly. Feel free to have these beliefs. I will just go back to work in the real world of budget cuts and poverty and drugs and crisis

wish me luck. Maybe your money printer can make me some PPE

just remember to practice social distancing when you are out in the "real world"

cheers!
 

Sens

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
6,086
2,550
if you think the government can just pay for everyone to live at home and there will be no issues and the solution is “just print more paper” good lord.

that has been Tried before. It went poorly. Feel free to have these beliefs. I will just go back to work in the real world of budget cuts and poverty and drugs and crisis

wish me luck. Maybe your money printer can make me some PPE

the looting and riots in ny brink of beginning
The Great Depression on steroids
 

dubey

$$$$$$$*NICE*$$$$$$$ 69 in 79 $$$$$$$*NICE*$$$$$$$
Oct 22, 2006
25,954
4,382
In your head
Man, this is wild.

So much has changed

So many people are no longer working. So many factors in the economy have shut down

Every major sport league has shut down

Life and society as we know it is over. It’s all changed
All because someone wanted some bat soup
I like how they close down dispensaries tomorrow

the lines are going to be absolutely insane especially with trying to keep social distancing and only allowing a few people in at a time

guaranteed 500 person spine in Corona tomorrow and who knows where that leads.., they say be careful and then do something so f***ing stupid like that

What a joke
Cops will be out and ticketing - if not call 311 - I will for sure
WHO boss supported by China is now giving the nation too much credit on coronavirus, critics claim

WHO boss supported by China is now giving the nation too much credit on coronavirus, critics claim

TELEMMGLPICT000144351409_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfy2dmClwgbjjulYfPTELibA.jpegimwidth=480

If the World Health Organisation’s verdict is to be believed, China’s behavior in the coronavirus crisis has been exemplary.
Officials who returned from a “joint mission” to the country in February described how China had “rolled out perhaps the most ambitious, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history”.
WHO’s director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, claimed that China’s lockdown strategy had “bought time for the world”.
However, concerns are now growing that far from buying time, China has put the world on the back foot by publishing data about the spread of the disease that is at best inconsistent and at worst heavily massaged.

It has also been accused of silencing whistle-blowers and overlooking early evidence of the infectiousness of the disease.

TELEMMGLPICT000227527524_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpegimwidth=480

Chinese President Xi Jinping waves to residents on a visit to Wuhan in March Credit: Xinhua/Reuters
Chinese authorities have changed the way they count coronavirus cases no less than eight times since the outbreak began, and only this week started counting asymptomatic cases in its official statistics.
When the daily counts started in January, China’s National Health Commission’s definition of a coronavirus case was much more restrictive than it is now.
Patients only qualified as suspected cases if they displayed all four of a list of specific symptoms - including pneumonia indicated by a chest radiograph – and had also either traveled or had indirect contact with a Wuhan market within the previous fortnight.

Inevitably, tens of thousands of milder cases of coronavirus slipped through unrecorded.
Even now that the definition has been tightened, senior politicians and US intelligence have expressed concerns that the statistics released by China may be fiction.
Certainly, the statistics look out of kilter. China was affected weeks before any other nation but has only reported around 82,500 cases so far.

By comparison, the US which had its first coronavirus case in mid-January has reported more than 245,000 – more than three times China’s figure, according to data collated by Johns Hopkins University in America. The UK, whose population is less than five percent of China’s – and which has lagged far behind on testing - has already reported 34,173 cases. This is 41 percent of China’s total.
Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith, an outspoken China critic, told the Telegraph: "There has already been a hit on the Chinese economy as a result of this, so their desperate concern is to alleviate that as quickly as possible - and my concern is that in that drive to do so, the figures for what is happening in China are being obscured.”

He added: “I really don’t believe these figures. I think they’ve suppressed it massively.”
A WHO spokesman said: “WHO’s mandate is to keep all people safe everywhere and this is what our scientists and public health experts are doing. The membership of the UN is decided by the countries. This does not affect WHO’s mandate as an evidence-based organization that safeguards the global public health.”
Allies of Dr Tedros point to the fact that, as the former health minister then foreign minister of Ethiopia, he is naturally given to diplomacy – and that praising China ensures the nation continues sharing critical information.

However, critics note that China was highly influential in him gaining the position in the first place.
According to reports, Chinese diplomats campaigned hard for him in the 2017 leadership election, using the promise of Beijing’s financial muscle to put pressure on developing countries to do the same – helping him to stave off competition from Britain’s David Nabarro.

The official toll of the number of cases is not the only point of information that has shaped the way other countries prepared for coronavirus. Chinese authorities also peddled the line that there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission - apparently overlooking early signs that patients were catching it from each other.
A paper published in The Lancet and co-authored by doctors who worked at Jin Yin-tan hospital in Wuhan noted that the wife of the very first patient to die of coronavirus also "presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward”.

The study - Clinical features of patients infected with 2019 novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China - stops short of saying she caught coronavirus from him, but points out that she had “no known history of exposure to the market”.
The same study also claims that just one of the four earliest known coronavirus patients had links to Huanan Seafood Market - casting doubt on the popular notion advanced in Wuhan that the disease originated in wet markets.

There, a shrimp seller named Wei Guixian was identified by the Wall Street Journal as one of the very first patients, after she began experiencing symptoms on December 10.
However, experts now believe that the disease began to spread in China much earlier than that. A little-discussed graph in the Lancet paper claims that the first coronavirus patient started feeling the effects of the disease on 1 December – a week and a half earlier.
TELEMMGLPICT000228946595_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpegimwidth=480

Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, has partly lifted the lockdown allowing people to enter the city after more than two months Credit: Roman Pilipey/Shuttershock
Meanwhile, the South China Morning Post claims to have seen confidential government documents that suggest the first confirmed coronavirus patient may have contracted the disease on 17 November. If true, knowing about it early on would have had huge ramifications.
Research by the University of Southampton suggests that 95 percent of infections could have been avoided if China had acted three weeks earlier.

Professor Larry Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on Public Health Law & Human Rights, told the Telegraph: "It delayed for three to four weeks before reporting a novel virus to the WHO which probably cost hundreds of thousands of lives globally…Its record does not deserve praise."

The first whistle-blower was Ai Fen, a senior doctor at Wuhan Central Hospital, who on 30 December posted information about the new virus on the WeChat social media platform.
Later that day, Dr. Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at the same hospital, also posted information on WeChat about the virus he believed to be Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome or Sars.
He and Dr. Ai were both reprimanded, and Dr. Wenliang was instructed by the hospital to write a “reflection” on the spread of false information.

Within two days, the Wuhan Public Security Bureau had reportedly called another eight doctors in for questioning after they discussed the virus on social media. According to Chinese media, the Hubei Provincial Health Commission ordered laboratories that were testing samples for the new virus to stop doing so and to destroy any existing samples they had.
John Mackenzie, a member of the World Health Organisation’s emergency committee and emeritus professor at Curtin University in Australia, told the Financial Times in February that some aspects of China’s response were “reprehensible” and that he believes they tried to “keep the figures quiet for a while”.

Mr. Mackenzie’s misgivings were backed by numerous reports in Chinese media, but Dr Tedros distanced himself from Mr. Mackenzie’s critical remarks.
He said that he could not comment whether or not China had hidden the start of the coronavirus outbreak but that if China did conceal the extent of the outbreak “it really defeats logic” because there would have been a higher number of cases around the world.
That was in February when the number of non-Chinese cases was still “very small”. The global death toll is now around 54,000.
The WHO position is in contrast to the organization’s handling of the 2003 SARS crisis when Gro Harlem Brundtland was director-general.

When the WHO declared a global health alert for SARS, there were just over 150 cases worldwide. When COVID-19 was named a public health emergency of international concern, there were nearly 10,000.
Yanzhong Huang, senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations, and author of a paper on the SARS response said that the WHO did not use the new range of tools that have since been put at its disposal.

“Very often the WHO seems to be downplaying the Chinese response in the early stage of the crisis…It might be diplomatically unwise to criticize [China] but I do believe the WHO could take a more balanced approach."
This is rejected by the WHO, which says that it co-ordinates the international response to COVID-19 in a “transparent way”, publishing on its website information that can help countries and individuals respond to the crisis.

“Part of WHO’s mandate is to inform all member states and we do it both through bilateral exchanges and through weekly briefings where all countries are invited. Throughout the outbreak, there have been regular and frequent meetings and discussions between WHO leadership and technical experts from around the world,” a spokesman said.

Indeed, Dr. Nabarro – who fought Dr. Tedros to become director-general and is now a WHO envoy – suggested that his former opponent may have got the balance right. “When this started, we were able to benefit from china making the structure of the virus available in the public domain extremely quickly and we’re grateful for that and we’re grateful for the information that has been received about the virus.”

“Let’s do all the post mortems of all governments when we’ve got through this. We will all be accountable and that’s how it should be.”
Professor Gostin, who was Dr. Nabarro’s spokesman during the leadership race, was less charitable. “When we look back and see so much praise going towards China and its system will the message be that civil rights aren't as important as we believe them to be? I believe in telling truth to power.'
f*** the WHO - they are almost as culpable as China is in this
Looking at Ford's presser today I think that might happen.


I really think that countries should be helping out each other not hording things - I hope we can find a diplomatic solution

Honestly never would have expected Doug Ford to step up like this. What a great job he has been doing.
 
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Petrus

Registered User
Jan 5, 2017
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3,406
Bay Street
I have never been a fan of Ford. And I can’t believe I am saying this, Ford has been great under the most difficult circumstances. I could not imagine anyone else leading this province during this crisis.
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,157
7,090
Burlington
I have never been a fan of Ford. And I can’t believe I am saying this, Ford has been great under the most difficult circumstances. I could not imagine anyone else leading this province during this crisis.

If there's one thing the Ford family knows, it's hard work.
 
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DanM

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
5,584
3,516
People need to drop this dream. I doubt we see pro sports again in 2020. I think Brian Burke was right.

We will be lucky to see sports in 2021 either. If we do, it will be played at zero to half capacity fan wise.
 

pepperMonkey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
5,254
1,464
Toronto
All because someone wanted some bat soup

Cops will be out and ticketing - if not call 311 - I will for sure

f*** the WHO - they are almost as culpable as China is in this

Honestly never would have expected Doug Ford to step up like this. What a great job he has been doing.
You know...I'm exactly like you. I couldn't believe we voted another Ford in (well, okay, I can because everyone was absolutely fed up with Wynne, me included, but still...) and was pissed off...but yes, I am quite satisfied with the job he's doing right now. Sure, once this is over I may go back to cursing Ford but as of right now, he's doing a great job.
 

Stamkos4life

Registered User
Oct 25, 2018
2,955
2,630
if you think the government can just pay for everyone to live at home and there will be no issues and the solution is “just print more paper” good lord.

that has been Tried before. It went poorly. Feel free to have these beliefs. I will just go back to work in the real world of budget cuts and poverty and drugs and crisis

wish me luck. Maybe your money printer can make me some PPE

Well said.
 
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