Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates) V

[KuleminFan41]

The World Health Organization has warned leaders against relying on COVID-19 lockdowns to tackle outbreaks — after previously saying countries should be careful how quickly they re-open.
WHO envoy Dr. David Nabarro said that such restrictive measures should only be treated as a last resort
“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Nabarro said.
“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-w...wwcFg4V_-KQ6rMK0fcDA1cn2cKtk9qArzBZHSz4cgO0Wo

Taken from the other day. Thought it was interesting.

 

[thewave]

The World Health Organization has warned leaders against relying on COVID-19 lockdowns to tackle outbreaks — after previously saying countries should be careful how quickly they re-open.
WHO envoy Dr. David Nabarro said that such restrictive measures should only be treated as a last resort
“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Nabarro said.
“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-w...wwcFg4V_-KQ6rMK0fcDA1cn2cKtk9qArzBZHSz4cgO0Wo

Taken from the other day. Thought it was interesting.

Interesting flip flop on the common cold virus variant (that may or may not be created in a lab) and cost the people of the world Trillions of dollars to cover what amounted to be a death rate equal to or less than the common Flu + Pneumonia.

Thanks a lot. Faith in government gone, social contract still intact? debatable.

 

[thewave]

 

[Bluelines]

The World Health Organization has warned leaders against relying on COVID-19 lockdowns to tackle outbreaks — after previously saying countries should be careful how quickly they re-open.
WHO envoy Dr. David Nabarro said that such restrictive measures should only be treated as a last resort
“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Nabarro said.
“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-w...wwcFg4V_-KQ6rMK0fcDA1cn2cKtk9qArzBZHSz4cgO0Wo

Taken from the other day. Thought it was interesting.

The key word is primary, masks, social distancing, washing your hands frequently would be the primary methods, secondary would be a lock down. I don't think any country is currently in a lock down.

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you are not in the orbit of someone with the virus you won't catch it.

 

[Bluelines]

Interesting flip flop on the common cold virus variant (that may or may not be created in a lab) and cost the people of the world Trillions of dollars to cover what amounted to be a death rate equal to or less than the common Flu + Pneumonia.

Thanks a lot. Faith in government gone, social contract still intact? debatable.

Again the low death rate is because governments took aggressive action, without that the death rate would be CONSIDERABLY higher but the tinfoil hat crowd likes to ignore this fact. You don't get this low death rate with our responsible government.

For those like you, you probably never had faith in government and were just looking for a reason to confirm your bias.

 

[thewave]

The key word is primary, masks, social distancing, washing your hands frequently would be the primary methods, secondary would be a lock down. I don't think any country is currently in a lock down.

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you are not in the orbit of someone with the virus you won't catch it.

The lockdown didn't work in the first place. Nations that didn't lockdown did relatively fine and didn't spend 340billion dollars on who knows what. Even former FDA chiefs and WHO themselves basically are saying it not needed. They have no credibility left, the numbers don't lie when people under 70 have 99.99% survival rate. It's riskier to eat bad food, speed on a highway or go downhill skiing at that point.

The appeal to authority stuff is about done in the mainstream. The narrative of Covid19 is a deadly pandemic is over. It's done and I bet dollars to donuts most people say it's bad and a tragedy etc etc but among friends mock it. Same as in my circles or at the cottage where I am surrounded by Academics on my bay. The parties were rip roaring and good times all summer long with no concerns.

 

[thewave]

Again the low death rate is because governments took aggressive action, without that the death rate would be CONSIDERABLY higher but the tinfoil hat crowd likes to ignore this fact. You don't get this low death rate with our responsible government.

For those like you, you probably never had faith in government and were just looking for a reason to confirm your bias.

You can't find me a Nation on the map that had even 1% of it's population wiped out. You just can't and you know you can't and everyone can read and see it and research it for themselves.

 

[Bluelines]

You can't find me a Nation on the map that had even 1% of it's population wiped out. You just can't and you know you can't and everyone can read and see it and research it for themselves.

You imply that 1 million dead is not a significant number, that is at best ignorant. ONE MILLION DEAD!

 

[Bluelines]

The lockdown didn't work in the first place. Nations that didn't lockdown did relatively fine and didn't spend 340billion dollars on who knows what. Even former FDA chiefs and WHO themselves basically are saying it not needed. They have no credibility left, the numbers don't lie when people under 70 have 99.99% survival rate. It's riskier to eat bad food, speed on a highway or go downhill skiing at that point.

The appeal to authority stuff is about done in the mainstream. The narrative of Covid19 is a deadly pandemic is over. It's done and I bet dollars to donuts most people say it's bad and a tragedy etc etc but among friends mock it. Same as in my circles or at the cottage where I am surrounded by Academics on my bay. The parties were rip roaring and good times all summer long with no concerns.

Nations that didn't lock down did relatively fine? That is Bulls#it and you know it. Sweden did fine eh?

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

 

[Bluelines]

You can't find me a Nation on the map that had even 1% of it's population wiped out. You just can't and you know you can't and everyone can read and see it and research it for themselves.

That is disingenuous at best, you want to include people who didn't catch this virus as if you are making a point. that is point less.

To see how deadly this virus, use a country like Sweden that took no measures. This way you are counting what life would be like if a country took no measures. Sweden has to date 98,451 cases, 5,894 deaths or 5.98%.

Canada by comparison has about a 5% death rate when compared to number of cases. At a 5% death rate if everyone in Canada had contracted the virus, the virus would have killed 2,036,138 people in Canada. Doing nothing, if we use Sweden's death rate, it would mean another 220,000 deaths, above an beyond the 2 million, in Canada (if everyone contracted this virus) This is why lockdowns are necessary, this is why masks are necessary.

Pretty easy to sit there and be an armchair QB and criticize something when you are not affected by it. If you or someone you loved contracted this virus, I'm willing to bet you'd have a considerable different perspective. Yes jobs are important, yes mental health is important but it mattes not if you are dead. On the scale of being alive or being dead, i know which one I'd pick.

 

[Nineteen67]

The lockdown didn't work in the first place. Nations that didn't lockdown did relatively fine and didn't spend 340billion dollars on who knows what. Even former FDA chiefs and WHO themselves basically are saying it not needed. They have no credibility left, the numbers don't lie when people under 70 have 99.99% survival rate. It's riskier to eat bad food, speed on a highway or go downhill skiing at that point.

The appeal to authority stuff is about done in the mainstream. The narrative of Covid19 is a deadly pandemic is over. It's done and I bet dollars to donuts most people say it's bad and a tragedy etc etc but among friends mock it. Same as in my circles or at the cottage where I am surrounded by Academics on my bay. The parties were rip roaring and good times all summer long with no concerns.

I’ve been reading a CDC report I got this morning that shows that ~ 35% of the deaths didn’t occur in a hospital. How can we even reconcile that?

Listing of % of Covid related deaths by age that did not occur in a hospital.

0-9 53%
10-19 34%,
20-29 43%
30-39 32%
40-49 27%
50-59 25%
60-69 24%
70-79 28%
80+ 44%

Every state I’ve looked at oftentimes has deaths in their daily counts that are based on on a death certificate review. I’ve seen them go back anywhere from 7-75 days.

I think they are counting anyone with a positive Sars-Cov2 that died as a related death. Which is OK, but from a public health standpoint they need to break down the actual cause of death and see if there are any patterns so providers can potentially dx and treat patients

 

[Chevboyarsky]

Food for thought:

Sweden spared European surge as coronavirus infections stay low

Also to the guy above talking about Tegnell's misgivings with their strategy :

"Tegnell told France-24 the country’s high mortality rate was not related to its overall strategy but rather to a failure to prevent the catastrophic spread of the virus in the country’s care homes, where the majority of Sweden’s 5,846 deaths occurred. “Of course something went wrong there,” he said."

 

[thewave]

You imply that 1 million dead is not a significant number, that is at best ignorant. ONE MILLION DEAD!

Out of 7 billion people, 1 million people that are dying in their 70th year+ is nothing statistically, they were bound to die sooner or later... More concerning is people are dying now because of missed treatments for cancer or late diagnosis, heart issues among all the other things. It's absolutely foolish to think that this so called pandemic is the issue given the numbers for all to see vs. the complications from the backlogs. Mental health is another big problem, Economy

The numbers are there and the numbers don't lie. 7000 Doctors recently petitioned against Lockdowns and multiple Doctors in Ontario as well.

 

[LeafsFan89]

Out of 7 billion people, 1 million people that are dying in their 70th year+ is nothing statistically, they were bound to die sooner or later... More concerning is people are dying now because of missed treatments for cancer or late diagnosis, heart issues among all the other things. It's absolutely foolish to think that this so called pandemic is the issue given the numbers for all to see vs. the complications from the backlogs. Mental health is another big problem, Economy

The numbers are there and the numbers don't lie. 7000 Doctors recently petitioned against Lockdowns and multiple Doctors in Ontario as well.

You can't simply sentence a segment of the population to (potential) death just because from an economic perspective it makes sense. Had the government done as you are implying, there would have been a public out cry. On the other hand, if the government "overreacts" then they would be equally criticized.

Personally, I think the larger issue is people not wearing masks, social distancing, etc, as directed; especially the younger crowd. The care-free attitude of "I'm young, I will be fine" while true, you are still putting others who are immunocompromised/deficient at risk.

It's hard to know what a "balanced" response would be. Hopefully we learn going forward.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Out of 7 billion people, 1 million people that are dying in their 70th year+ is nothing statistically, they were bound to die sooner or later... More concerning is people are dying now because of missed treatments for cancer or late diagnosis, heart issues among all the other things. It's absolutely foolish to think that this so called pandemic is the issue given the numbers for all to see vs. the complications from the backlogs. Mental health is another big problem, Economy

The numbers are there and the numbers don't lie. 7000 Doctors recently petitioned against Lockdowns and multiple Doctors in Ontario as well.

The proponents for lockdowns will always cherry pick statistics that back up their claims of Armageddon. We have Sweden as the absolute contrarian point of view on lockdowns...they did fine and didn't endanger people who were getting regular treatments to save people in old age homes that have a life expectancy of less than 12 months when they move in to them. Sweden did it the right way and the rest of the world was over reacting. I don't blame governments for doing the initial lock down...nobody was sure about how deadly it was. Once we saw it affected 75+ aged people...we should have isolated them instead of the general population.

If you try and continue this lock down nonsense...you are just going to create more poverty which does have an effect on society... We made a mistake that can be attributed to not having the information we have now. Continuing that mistake is going to be devastating to this country.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

Out of 7 billion people, 1 million people that are dying in their 70th year+ is nothing statistically, they were bound to die sooner or later... More concerning is people are dying now because of missed treatments for cancer or late diagnosis, heart issues among all the other things. It's absolutely foolish to think that this so called pandemic is the issue given the numbers for all to see vs. the complications from the backlogs. Mental health is another big problem, Economy

The numbers are there and the numbers don't lie. 7000 Doctors recently petitioned against Lockdowns and multiple Doctors in Ontario as well.

It's still a million people that weren't going to die "quite yet". EVERYONE is bound to die sooner or later, so be careful about being too cavalier about that. Next virus might just target your age bracket, whatever that is.

7000 doctors signed that petition. There are 950,000 doctors in the USA. So.... hardly any of them signed it.

As for WHO etc. being clueless and reversing themselves all the time, I'm not sure that they really have. There's a lot of nuance in what they say. All the local Public Health Officers live and work with that sort of language and understand what it means. I think lay people (us) often take a simplistic interpretation and that's why it looks like they keep changing their minds.

There have been changes, of course. We knew almost nothing about this thing in February. It had never been seen before. I think erring on the side of caution made sense to start with.

 

[thewave]

The proponents for lockdowns will always cherry pick statistics that back up their claims of Armageddon. We have Sweden as the absolute contrarian point of view on lockdowns...they did fine and didn't endanger people who were getting regular treatments to save people in old age homes that have a life expectancy of less than 12 months when they move in to them. Sweden did it the right way and the rest of the world was over reacting. I don't blame governments for doing the initial lock down...nobody was sure about how deadly it was. Once we saw it affected 75+ aged people...we should have isolated them instead of the general population.

If you try and continue this lock down nonsense...you are just going to create more poverty which does have an effect on society... We made a mistake that can be attributed to not having the information we have now. Continuing that mistake is going to be devastating to this country.

Exactly. I was a proponent for hiding away the vulnerable off the bat and ending lockdown ASAP once that data was in. The new argument that they were not ready quite just yet at the ripe young age of 75+ on Oxygen after a life of smoking is the funniest of them all, considering around the world, pneumonia and seasonal flu will kill and I am certain in the millions of people in that demographic.

How many people die and how many are born each year?
"The first chart shows the annual number of deaths over the same period.
In 2015 around 55 million people died. The world population therefore increased by 84 million in that year (that is an increase of 1.14%)."

I especially love how CHINA...

China

Coronavirus Cases:
85,578
Deaths:
4,634
Recovered:
80,714

**** Give me a break, it just stopped over there over night ****

 

[Bluelines]

Out of 7 billion people, 1 million people that are dying in their 70th year+ is nothing statistically, they were bound to die sooner or later... More concerning is people are dying now because of missed treatments for cancer or late diagnosis, heart issues among all the other things. It's absolutely foolish to think that this so called pandemic is the issue given the numbers for all to see vs. the complications from the backlogs. Mental health is another big problem, Economy

The numbers are there and the numbers don't lie. 7000 Doctors recently petitioned against Lockdowns and multiple Doctors in Ontario as well.

Awesome people 70+ don't have the right to live, what a disgusting statement.

The economy was in its largest expansion in the history of the modern economy, it would have burst this year or next, with or with out the pandemic. We were overdue for a recession.

 

[Chevboyarsky]

Awesome people 70+ don't have the right to live, what a disgusting statement.

The economy was in its largest expansion in the history of the modern economy, it would have burst this year or next, with or with out the pandemic. We were overdue for a recession.

People who are 70+ have the right to take all the precautions necessary to not get the virus, including staying in their houses.

Locking down everybody for the sake of people who can literally isolate themselves from the world, if they so choose, is folly.

 

[thewave]

Awesome people 70+ don't have the right to live, what a disgusting statement.

The economy was in its largest expansion in the history of the modern economy, it would have burst this year or next, with or with out the pandemic. We were overdue for a recession.

Strongly disagree. The unique virus came from nowhere like the unique virus' before it that took out statistically similar amounts of people. Look at my further post; 55 million people died in 2015, 60 million was expected in 2020 before this. That means if 1 million die of Covid it's actually off the top of my head 1.7% or so of the predicted and expected deaths on the year? That's not strengthening your case.

Like I said the narrative is shot. It's over in the hearts of the people. Demand investigations.

 

[Kiwi]

You imply that 1 million dead is not a significant number, that is at best ignorant. ONE MILLION DEAD!

There are 6-7 billion of people in the world, 1 million is a rounding error and we lose about half a million people to malaria every single year

But people couldn't give a rats ass because thats happening to people in the developing and 3rd world

 

[thewave]

There are 6-7 billion of people in the world, 1 million is a rounding error and we lose about half a million people to malaria every single year

But people couldn't give a rats ass because thats happening to people in the developing and 3rd world

60 million people were expected to die of all causes in 2020 around the world. 1million or so of that 60million will be Covid deaths. Over 80% of those Covid deaths will be people that are elderly and frail. Many with things like COPD, advanced heart disease, liver disease, Cancer and whatever else you can think of as a co-factor. Most people in these age groups with these underlying issues will be taken by Pneumonia or Influenza regardless. It's madness and there should bloody well be an investigation, and compensations.

All they have to do is look at the numbers I just posted and put maybe 2-20mins of thought and research into it and THE SCIENCE will be SETTLED for YOU.

 

[Bluelines]

There are 6-7 billion of people in the world, 1 million is a rounding error and we lose about half a million people to malaria every single year

But people couldn't give a rats ass because thats happening to people in the developing and 3rd world

Think about what you are saying just for a second. Think really hard at why that post was perhaps the most insensitive, narrow vison post ever made on this forum.

 

[Bluelines]

People who are 70+ have the right to take all the precautions necessary to not get the virus, including staying in their houses.

Locking down everybody for the sake of people who can literally isolate themselves from the world, if they so choose, is folly.

LOL you make it sound so easy, seniors can just self isolate, why didn't they think of that?

The vast majority of seniors are alone and require assistance to live. The vast majority don't live in their own residence. You figured out a solution, using a premise that is false, BRAVO!

 

[Bluelines]

Out of 7 billion people, 1 million people that are dying in their 70th year+ is nothing statistically, they were bound to die sooner or later... More concerning is people are dying now because of missed treatments for cancer or late diagnosis, heart issues among all the other things. It's absolutely foolish to think that this so called pandemic is the issue given the numbers for all to see vs. the complications from the backlogs. Mental health is another big problem, Economy

The numbers are there and the numbers don't lie. 7000 Doctors recently petitioned against Lockdowns and multiple Doctors in Ontario as well.

Are you a freaking robot?

Every life matters... stop end of discussion.