Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
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Prove he's still having the same issues with the barracudas. I attempted to find commentary on his continued struggles with the same issues, and found nothing. All I found is that he suffered a concussion, and fans were pleased with him. No mention of the weaknesses that plagued him here.

Just give me something other than you saying so. Completely willing to concede that the issues he had here continued in San Jose's system. But why should I just take this as fact because you say so?

lol, i give up. proof? i already cited two articles to you and quoted specifically from one of them for the point i made here. the article literally says he is having issues with the ahl. then when you ignored them i pointed them out again. you are the one who advanced the proposition that utica was to blame here for dahlen. what's rich is that you now think i have to have more proof to the contrary in order to have an opinion that contradicts you.

ask yourself, the way you debate, why would anyone waste time with you? have a nice day barking at the moon.
 

xtra

Registered User
May 19, 2002
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Vancouver
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PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
12,378
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Lapland
You can’t take that site seriously. They have the Dutch league and some other random Swiss league as better than the AHL;

Also who is that random writer. Seems like a fan blog trying to get controversial opinions out

Okay...

I rank the leagues my self:
1 nhl
2 khl
3 shl
4 liiga
5 ahl
6 swiss
7 del
 

FroshaugFan2

Registered User
Dec 7, 2006
7,133
1,173
You can’t take that site seriously. They have the German league and some other random Swiss league as better than the AHL;

Also who is that random writer. Seems like a fan blog trying to get controversial opinions out

Corrected deustche to German from Dutch
For sure.

Follow the leagues, find some streams, and make your own judgements.

Don't just blindly believe whatever the first result on Google says.
 
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DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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Okay...

I rank the leagues my self:
1 nhl
2 khl
3 shl
4 liiga
5 ahl
6 swiss
7 del
AHL is definitely higher than Liiga. One could make an argument that Swiss is also higher than Liiga. Juolevi and Palmu were both high performers in Liiga and came over and got trampled in the A. Just two examples on our own team.
 

PetterssonSimp

Registered User
Dec 12, 2008
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I'll give you the first two. Utica is doing something for goalies.

JV ... Okay. I guess he lost the excess weight there and is now giving more effort.



Palmu is doing fine in a stronger league where clutching and grabbing is allowed (Im assuming AHL mirrors NHL more closely in this regard?)



I agree with this to a certain extent but I would like to have a farm team where you can send players to actually play, learn from mistakes and get better. Utica, at the moment, does not develop NHL skaters. (I give you that they definitely do develop NHL goalies.)
I think not only do you underrate the AHL as a league, but I think you underrate how bad Virtanen looked before his stint in Utica. He was bordering on lost cause, I understand a lot of his game is tools and no tool box. But since he’s been there and now here his ability to at least look competent defensively is a huge stride in his game IMHO. If you had simply said they don’t develop NHL scoring players I’d agree but I do feel Virtanen has taken a necessary step from the nothing player he was to mostly competent 3/4 line guy.
I think others have pointed out Liiga isn’t a stronger league, which should be pretty universally accepted as it should be.

Like I said, the need for oodles of bodies would make the development system more likely to produce an NHL body simply through trail by numbers. Say we started with 4 extra prospects, by development year 2 that might be cut down by 50%, but you’re also more likely to have a clearer idea of who’s gonna make it.
Instead we have only 4 guys we are discussing now and 2 rather moved on or are playing in different leagues, while the other two are your 50% maybes.
This shouldn’t be rocket surgery here, more prospects means more likelihood of one or two of them turning out, possibly even snagging a later round gem.
 

I in the Eye

Drop a ball it falls
Dec 14, 2002
6,371
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lol, i give up. proof? i already cited two articles to you and quoted specifically from one of them for the point i made here. the article literally says he is having issues with the ahl. then when you ignored them i pointed them out again. you are the one who advanced the proposition that utica was to blame here for dahlen. what's rich is that you now think i have to have more proof to the contrary in order to have an opinion that contradicts you.

ask yourself, the way you debate, why would anyone waste time with you? have a nice day barking at the moon.

Yes, issues with the AHL, his time in Utica. Dahlen wasn't happy here... He was having issues in Utica. Nothing on his unwillingness to battle in corners or being an ultra-soft player coming out of the San Jose system. Anything before his time in Utica? I can't find anything... You'd think this commentary would continue from before he got here, to after he left, as they are major issues that fans and commentators would/should comment on. Major talking points here, that question the very validity as a prospect going forward. If he's a soft player who is scared of contact, he's not going to make it.

Is that an attempted bait? Are you looking for a snarky reply? That does this board no good.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
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I hope this question is asked of management (and hopefully ownership) starting in training camp and throughout the year. Step up media.
 
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DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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Yes, issues with the AHL, his time in Utica. Dahlen wasn't happy here... He was having issues in Utica. Nothing on his unwillingness to battle in corners or being an ultra-soft player coming out of the San Jose system. You'd think this commentary would continue, as they are major issues that fans and commentators would comment on.

Is that an attempted bait? Are you looking for a snarky reply? That does this board no good.
I argue with MS on 50% of his posts but I’d take his opinion on Dahlen over any barricuda posters and their 6 game sample size. His opinions are also corroborated by Utica posters. Dahlen is a snowflake so far in NA
 
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DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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I hope this question is asked of management (and hopefully ownership) starting in training camp and throughout the year. Step up media.

I heard Burke on 1040 earlier and he lost me when he started blabbing on and on about Myers WAR. He would have more credibility if he mentioned the weaknesses of WAR imsread of presenting a one sided argument
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,844
9,517
as far as i can tell the utica guys here thought he was a classic seagull. i will guess the barracuda guys after 7 games were not ready to cut bait on him one way or the other.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,605
84,118
Vancouver, BC
Yes, issues with the AHL, his time in Utica. Dahlen wasn't happy here... He was having issues in Utica. Nothing on his unwillingness to battle in corners or being an ultra-soft player coming out of the San Jose system. Anything before his time in Utica? I can't find anything... You'd think this commentary would continue from before he got here, to after he left, as they are major issues that fans and commentators would/should comment on. Major talking points here, that question the very validity as a prospect going forward. If he's a soft player who is scared of contact, he's not going to make it.

Is that an attempted bait? Are you looking for a snarky reply? That does this board no good.

He played 7 games there. I doubt many or any people on that board have a substantial sample size to really gather much of anything.
 

I in the Eye

Drop a ball it falls
Dec 14, 2002
6,371
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I argue with MS on 50% of his posts but I’d take his opinion on Dahlen over any barricuda posters and their 6 game sample size. His opinions are also corroborated by Utica posters. Dahlen is a snowflake so far in NA

So would I... but did MS watch Dahlen before and after his time in Utica? I trust MS and the Utica posters opinions. My contention is that our prospect development system sucks. Players are scared to make mistakes, and therefore, play timid and make mistakes. That's my theory. Of course, some players it's their own fault... but why should I think that Dahlen continued with the same issues in the San Jose system when I can't find anything to suggest he did?
 

I in the Eye

Drop a ball it falls
Dec 14, 2002
6,371
2,327
He played 7 games there. I doubt many or any people on that board have a substantial sample size to really gather much of anything.
For sure... but how about before his time on Utica? It does not seem like he sucked on the Barracudas, when it was suggested that his struggles continued. I do not see anything to suggest he struggled with those weaknesses before or after his time on Utica.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
23,146
6,821
I heard Burke on 1040 earlier and he lost me when he started blabbing on and on about Myers WAR. He would have more credibility if he mentioned the weaknesses of WAR imsread of presenting a one sided argument

I don't particularly like WAR either, but the central point stands. The Canucks should not have had cap juggling issues until after Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes got off their ELCs.

The fact we're already there is unacceptable. Teams like Edmonton are in this situation because their young stars are off ELCs.
 
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PetterssonSimp

Registered User
Dec 12, 2008
7,374
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I heard Burke on 1040 earlier and he lost me when he started blabbing on and on about Myers WAR. He would have more credibility if he mentioned the weaknesses of WAR imsread of presenting a one sided argument
Brian Burke is one of the worst “analysts” employed right now. The guy is one of the most biased personalities on TV, he’s basically a younger Don Cherry to me at this point.
Hearing Burke talk about advanced statistics would be like listening to Sean Avery talk about respecting your fellow man.
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
11,831
Tommi Santala, remember him? He's still playing and producing in that Finnish league. That hockey writers piece is complete trash.

*edit* holy crap I just realized that 39 year old Tommi Santala, was 32nd in SM-Liiga scoring this past year. Incredible people rate that league above the NHL.

The AHL is a more difficult league and more closely mirrors the NHL than any other league on the planet.


More on the Finnish League: You ever heard of Justin Danforth? He's a 26 year old canadian who couldn't even hold down an AHL job and he's the 5th leading scorer of the Liiga.

Sometimes I think people judge the entire AHL based on the Canucks piss poor system. It's unwise to do so.
 
Last edited:

DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
4,002
2,896
I don't particularly like WAR either, but the central point stands. The Canucks should not have had cap juggling issues until after Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes got off their ELCs.

The fact we're already there is unacceptable. Teams like Edmonton are in this situation because their young stars are off ELCs.
Sure I agree but the fact the Canucks are overpaying bottom 6 players isn’t exactly Earth shattering news
 
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DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
4,002
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Tommi Santala, remember him? He's still playing and producing in that Finnish league. That hockey writers piece is complete trash.

The AHL is a more difficult league and more closely mirrors the NHL than any other league on the planet.
The AHL is right there with the K. It’s a brutally tough league.
 

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