Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

[MS]

Oh I agree. I just feel like our Utica front office mirrors our pro teams management. We dont really expect them to do anything.

Wasnt the sweden rumour debunked already?

There are definitely things to complain about in Utica and I'm hardly a fan of Cull. I just don't feel that Dahlen or his treatment was one of them. He was put in a position to succeed with quality icetime and PP minutes, didn't compete and floated around on the perimeter, and then pouted and demanded a trade when the coaches tried to hold him accountable and fix those issues. If they'd stuck him on an energy line next to Hamilton and Arseneau and gave him zero offensive looks then I'd agree ... but that isn't what happened at all.

If that rumour has been debunked I haven't seen it. No idea though.

 

[I in the Eye]

I am extremely hard on this organization. I hold them at zero fault for Dahlen's issues. His failure rests entirely on his shoulders.

His failure in Utica rests entirely on his shoulders.

And yet, the Canucks do not have a level playing field for deciding who plays in Utica and who makes the Canucks. Working hard and producing is not enough to solidify your place on the Canucks roster. Merit is not the deciding factor - he could have still made it despite playing like a snowflake here. If Benning sees you on his roster, you're on. If he doesn't, your not. In his time in Utica, Dahlen struggled with issues of playing like a snowflake. But the Canucks prospect development system is not a meritocracy. Because it's not, it can have negative effects on development. It can have negative effects on culture. And because of this, and the lack of commentary both before and after his time in Utica of being a snowflake, I'm not ready to write Dahlen off as a snowflake who can't make the jump because of the issues he showed in Utica. I'll write him off when he fails the SJ development system.

 

[Melvin]

I can't defend Benning's processes but I do feel like he's gotten a little unlucky on the sheer number of guys who haven't worked at all.

It's glorious. I keep waiting for some fringe player to randomly break out just due to the law of averages and bracing myself for the deluge of Benning was right posts.

But it never happens. He is not only grossly incompetent but quite unlucky as well. I would not have expected every single one of Vey, Pouliot, Larsen, Leipsic, etc to be a bust but here we are.

 

[MS]

His failure in Utica rests entirely on his shoulders.

And yet, the Canucks do not have a level playing field for deciding who plays in Utica and who makes the Canucks. Working hard and producing is not enough to solidify your place on the Canucks roster. Merit is not the deciding factor - he could have still made it despite playing like a snowflake here. If Benning sees you on his roster, you're on. If he doesn't, your not. In his time in Utica, Dahlen struggled with issues of playing like a snowflake. But the Canucks prospect development system is not a meritocracy. Because it's not, it can have negative effects on development. It can have negative effects on culture. And because of this, and the lack of commentary both before and after his time in Utica of being a snowflake, I'm not ready to write Dahlen off as a snowflake who can't make the jump because of the issues he showed in Utica. I'll write him off when he fails the SJ development system.

The situation in Utica was not a meritocracy in Dahlen's favour. He was put in a position to succeed and spoonfed far more prime offensive minutes than his pathetic effort level should have dictated.

You're acting like he was put on a checking line and told to be a banger while they put Carter Bancks on the PP. That isn't what happened. He was playing on the top-2 lines all season and a fixture on the top PP unit.

 

[I in the Eye]

The situation in Utica was not a meritocracy in Dahlen's favour. He was put in a position to succeed and spoonfed far more prime offensive minutes than his pathetic effort level should have dictated.

You're acting like he was put on a checking line and told to be a banger while they put Carter Bancks on the PP. That isn't what happened. He was playing on the top-2 lines all season and a fixture on the top PP unit.

No I'm not acting like he wasn't put into a position to succeed. I'm saying he didn't succeed here, and because I see overall flaws in our development system, I'll wait to see if he passes or fails a good development system before concluding if he's a failed prospect or not. He underperformed, pouted and quit here. He failed in a failed system.

 

[MS]

No I'm not acting like he wasn't put into a position to succeed. I'm saying he didn't succeed here, and because I see overall flaws in our development system, I'll wait to see if he passes or fails a good development system before concluding if he's a failed prospect or not. He underperformed, pouted and quit here. He failed in a failed system.

Based on the failings I saw in this player last season, I would be absolutely stunned if he turned into a quality NHL player in a different organization.

We'll find out, I guess.

 

[I in the Eye]

Based on the failings I saw in this player last season, I would be absolutely stunned if he turned into a quality NHL player in a different organization.

We'll find out, I guess.

He's going from a bad development system, to a good one... I'm going to watch Dahlen closely because I know he looked useless here to those who I trust for scouting reports, but I do believe that the Canucks, as an organization, are useless. The Utica issues haven't seemed to pre-date his time in Utica, nor follow him after (from what I can see on quick Google and board searches). This gives me pause. I am not a Dahlen supporter or hater. I hate the organization of ineptitude that Benning has created from top to bottom. I'm interested to see how deep my bias and hatred runs, because despite how piss poor Dahlen was in our system, I'm not convinced that it was not our system itself to blame (along with how the player responded in our flawed system). How do individuals respond in a flawed system? Some get tough, some get going, some somewhere in between? I imagine it's different for different players. He was a good prospect before coming here, and San Jose seems happy enough (albeit, a limited sample size). I'm willing to put myself out there with perhaps a controversial thought or opinion from those who watched Dahlen closely, because I have faith in how poorly this organization is run from top to bottom. I think anyone who has followed the Canucks as closely as I have these last several years during this era should have a similar faith. They do not deserve benefit of the doubt.

 

[MS]

He's going from a bad development system, to a good one... I'm going to watch Dahlen closely because I know he looked useless here to those who I trust for scouting reports, but I do believe that the Canucks, as an organization, are useless. The Utica issues haven't seemed to pre-date his time in Utica, nor follow him after (from what I can see on quick Google and board searches). This gives me pause. I am not a Dahlen supporter or hater. I hate the organization of ineptitude that Benning has created from top to bottom. I'm interested to see how deep my bias and hatred runs, because despite how piss poor Dahlen was in our system, I'm not convinced that it was not our system itself to blame. How do individuals respond in a flawed system? I imagine it's different for different players. He was a good prospect before coming here, and San Jose seems happy enough (albeit, a limited sample size). I'm willing to put myself out there with perhaps a controversial thought or opinion from those who watched Dahlen closely, because I have faith in how poorly this organization is run from top to bottom. I think anyone who has followed the Canucks as closely as I have these last several years during this era should have a similar faith. They do not deserve benefit of the doubt.

Dahlen played 7 games in SJ's system and didn't score a goal. And I doubt many of their fans watched most or even some of those games. He also came from a low-level league where perhaps his skills dominated more than they would have in the SEL.

I'm curious how he goes, too. But I suspect it won't be amazing.

I agree with you in general about our system but I don't think it was the problem in this case. I think the bigger problem is what we do with guys who play their way out of the AHL. Gaunce was never given a fair chance. Gaudette was handled horribly in Vancouver last year. Sautner keeps showing well and will get buried again this year. MacEwen was called up and barely put on the ice.

 

[I in the Eye]

I agree with you in general about our system but I don't think it was the problem in this case. I think the bigger problem is what we do with guys who play their way out of the AHL. Gaunce was never given a fair chance. Gaudette was handled horribly in Vancouver last year. Sautner keeps showing well and will get buried again this year. MacEwen was called up and barely put on the ice

And this is the lack of meritocracy I'm talking about. I can blame Dahlen for playing like shit... but Benning says not willing to put in the work. If he put in the work and even produced, it doesn't mean he makes the jump. I don't blame him or his agent for wanting out. I can call Dahlen on his play, and say he sucked here and didn't look like a prospect going forward... but take away hope (that you're actually in control of your destiny) and different people react differently. This is not the development system for a struggling player to learn how to be a professional. Nothing about this organization is professional. In fact, Dahlen's response to Benning was more professional than what came out of Benning's mouth describing the reasons for Dahlen's departure. You are trusting this regime for your future career and millions of dollars on the line. The warning signs are there to want to go to a different development system.

 

[Dab]

There are definitely things to complain about in Utica and I'm hardly a fan of Cull. I just don't feel that Dahlen or his treatment was one of them. He was put in a position to succeed with quality icetime and PP minutes, didn't compete and floated around on the perimeter, and then pouted and demanded a trade when the coaches tried to hold him accountable and fix those issues. If they'd stuck him on an energy line next to Hamilton and Arseneau and gave him zero offensive looks then I'd agree ... but that isn't what happened at all.

If that rumour has been debunked I haven't seen it. No idea though.

Hate to say it and I know it’s a super unpopular opinion but the farm team needs to be moved to the west coast so fans and media can keep the team accountable and management can have a much firmer hand there.

 

[Dab]

And this is the lack of meritocracy I'm talking about. I can blame Dahlen for playing like ****... but Benning says not willing to put in the work. If he put in the work and even produced, it doesn't mean he makes the jump. I don't blame him or his agent for wanting out. I can call Dahlen on his play, and say he sucked here and didn't look like a prospect going forward... but take away hope and different people react differently. This is not the development system for a struggling player to learn how to be a professional. Nothing about this organization is professional.

Hope? What ? Dude I disagree! Every rookie that shows anything is given opportunity here. Name a rookie that’s been held back?

This management team is so starved for a success story they’ll give anyone who remotely shows they can do it a chance. See: Gaudette.

 

[MS]

Hope? What ? Dude I disagree! Every rookie that shows anything is given opportunity here. Name a rookie that’s been held back?

This management team is so starved for a success story they’ll give anyone who remotely shows they can do it a chance. See: Gaudette.

Disagree completely. They love their #1 picks and rush them in ASAP but everyone else gets buried behind crappy veterans.

In Gaudette's case, we trundled him around for 10 garbage minutes/game pointlessly last year instead of either a) trying him on wing on a scoring line b) giving him some defensive/PK responsibility or c) letting him play 20 minutes/game in Utica. Awful development.

 

[I in the Eye]

Hope? What ? Dude I disagree! Every rookie that shows anything is given opportunity here. Name a rookie that’s been held back?

This management team is so starved for a success story they’ll give anyone who remotely shows they can do it a chance. See: Gaudette.

Tyler Motte, Tim Shaller, Josh Leivo, Derrick Pouliot, Brandan Leipsic, Ryan Spooner, etc.

 

[Melvin]

Hate to say it and I know it’s a super unpopular opinion but the farm team needs to be moved to the west coast so fans and media can keep the team accountable and management can have a much firmer hand there.

You mean like how fans and media are keeping the nhl team accountable

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I miss simpler times when dhalen for burrows was our forsberg for erat.

 

[I in the Eye]

Wasnt the sweden rumour debunked already?

The rumour comes from Sportsnet’s Satiar Shah who cited this Swedish article as his source. In this same Swedish article he used as his source (Jonathan Dahlén på väg tillbaka till Sverige) through Google Translate it says...

Jonathan has one year left on the deal with Sharks. He is now training at home in Sundsvall and is preparing for the next season. It is true that Jonathan told the media that he is not happy with his season, even though it went better after joining the Sharks. As with all players in the NHL, especially during the rookie contract period, we will evaluate the season with Sharks now this summer, and plan ahead. There are no plans other than that JD will play in Shark's organization next season. We, or Jonathan, have not had any conversations with Swedish or other European clubs, says the agent Claes Elefalk.

 

[Dab]

You mean like how fans and media are keeping the nhl team accountable

To a certain extent the only thing keeping the team accountable is the fans and media- the organization knows they can turn on a dime. Management is under enormous pressure to have a winning season.

 

[timw33]

Buffalo picks up Johannson on a $4.5MM x 2 year deal.

Seems pretty reasonable for a UFA deal, especially the two year term.

 

[Love]

Buffalo picks up Johannson on a $4.5MM x 2 year deal.

Seems pretty reasonable for a UFA deal, especially the two year term.

A perfect example of where the Loui Eriksson contract kills you.

 

[DonnyNucker]

A perfect example of where the Loui Eriksson contract kills you.

Not really. Johansson is pretty terrible and is one potential concussion away from being done. Loui prevented us from acquiring Nyquist who would have looked good alongside Elias

 

[Carnal]

I miss simpler times when dhalen for burrows was our forsberg for erat.

Was that really the hope/prediction at the time? Yikes...

 

[VanJack]

I see three of the Canucks amateur scouts were either terminated or left for other opportunities. Not familiar with any of Chris MacDonald; Dan Palango or Paul Gallagher, but what baffles is that the amateur scouts appear to be only part of Canuck Hockey Ops who were actually doing a decent job.

Now the pro scouting staff, that's a different story. If they wanted to dump guys that would be the department to do it in.

But the Canucks are already operating with one of the thinnest hockey ops group in the entire NHL. On a positive note, I guess when the inevitable broom sweeping occurs, there will be fewer people to let go.

 

[Carnal]

I see three of the Canucks amateur scouts were either terminated or left for other opportunities. Not familiar with any of Chris MacDonald; Dan Palango or Paul Gallagher, but what baffles is that the amateur scouts appear to be only part of Canuck Hockey Ops who were actually doing a decent job.

Now the pro scouting staff, that's a different story. If they wanted to dump guys that would be the department to do it in.

But the Canucks are already operating with one of the thinnest hockey ops group in the entire NHL. On a positive note, I guess when the inevitable broom sweeping occurs, there will be fewer people to let go.

In a bid to top the implosion of the late 90s Canucks team, Jim Benning has decided to hire Peter Chiarelli as the President, and Mark Recchi, Chris Chelios and Marty McSorley to replace the fired scouts. Rebuild complete/there was no rebuild...

 

[Hockeyphysio]

How did Vanek look last year in Detroit? Might be a cheap option to help the top 6

 

[Melvin]

Was that really the hope/prediction at the time? Yikes...

It really was.