Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

[Phenomenon13]

I really hate it when people say the salary cap doesn't matter. It's a finite source that can be leveraged. You only get so much every year. Every bit of it counts. Maximizing it to the best of your ability is how every gm should strive to use it. We have seen how punishing it can be for severely for mismanaging it.

If your mindset is that the cap doesn't matter, you shouldn't be gm. The entire cap situation of the Canucks shows a lack of foresight. Being capped out with bad contracts isnt okay just cause it doesn't cost us any significant assets and we can still sign everyone. It's a opportunity cost of acquiring a PK subban or John Tavares. Doesn't mean you'll get them but at least you have the opportunity to do so and make that play. Toronto tried to use their space for Stamkos and failed. Then next year they tried again and got tavares. They added a franchise talent because their cap space gave them this opportunity. The rangers managed to get panarin, was it a guarantee? No, because the Panthers were the front runners from most media outlets but their cap space allowed to field a rumored better offer.

Benning does have some foresight, we still are okay for the expansion draft and most of the bad contracts are up by the time pettersson and Hughes need to be signed but damn. The opportunity to add another top talent is probably gone. Something that'll put our team up with the contenders. I feel we are headed for mediocrity. If we still had cap space we could recover but for the next 2 years we are locked in with this team.

 

[DL44]

I really hate it when people say the salary cap doesn't matter. It's a finite source that can be leveraged. You only get so much every year. Every bit of it counts. Maximizing it to the best of your ability is how every gm should strive to use it. We have seen how punishing it can be for severely for mismanaging it.

If your mindset is that the cap doesn't matter, you shouldn't be gm. The entire cap situation of the Canucks shows a lack of foresight. Being capped out with bad contracts isnt okay just cause it doesn't cost us any significant assets and we can still sign everyone. It's a opportunity cost of acquiring a PK subban or John Tavares. Doesn't mean you'll get them but at least you have the opportunity to do so and make that play. Toronto tried to use their space for Stamkos and failed. Then next year they tried again and got tavares. They added a franchise talent because their cap space gave them this opportunity. The rangers managed to get panarin, was it a guarantee? No, because the Panthers were the front runners from most media outlets but their cap space allowed to field a rumored better offer.

Benning does have some foresight, we still are okay for the expansion draft and most of the bad contracts are up by the time pettersson and Hughes need to be signed but damn. The opportunity to add another top talent is probably gone. Something that'll put our team up with the contenders. I feel we are headed for mediocrity. If we still had cap space we could recover but for the next 2 years we are locked in with this team.

I appreciate the bold moves...

Glad he didn’t remain status quo like some wanted.
Status quo on a team that missed the playoffs for 4 yrs? Not logical.

He’s built this team for the next two yrs.... nothing wrong with that if the targeted assets plug the holes we had the last couple yrs... more good vets to produce and help maximize the development of the youth on the club.

There is still cap flexibility to be worked in for next offseason.

 

[F A N]

I really hate it when people say the salary cap doesn't matter. It's a finite source that can be leveraged. You only get so much every year. Every bit of it counts. Maximizing it to the best of your ability is how every gm should strive to use it. We have seen how punishing it can be for severely for mismanaging it.

If your mindset is that the cap doesn't matter, you shouldn't be gm. The entire cap situation of the Canucks shows a lack of foresight. Being capped out with bad contracts isnt okay just cause it doesn't cost us any significant assets and we can still sign everyone. It's a opportunity cost of acquiring a PK subban or John Tavares. Doesn't mean you'll get them but at least you have the opportunity to do so and make that play. Toronto tried to use their space for Stamkos and failed. Then next year they tried again and got tavares. They added a franchise talent because their cap space gave them this opportunity. The rangers managed to get panarin, was it a guarantee? No, because the Panthers were the front runners from most media outlets but their cap space allowed to field a rumored better offer.

Benning does have some foresight, we still are okay for the expansion draft and most of the bad contracts are up by the time pettersson and Hughes need to be signed but damn. The opportunity to add another top talent is probably gone. Something that'll put our team up with the contenders. I feel we are headed for mediocrity. If we still had cap space we could recover but for the next 2 years we are locked in with this team.

I agree with your points but not your examples. The Canucks had tons of cap room last season and could have pursued Tavares. In fact, there were reports that that was what Benning wanted to do but Linden didn't. Of course you have to put yourself in the position to make the pitch and then whether you have a realistic chance of landing that player is a whole different matter. The Canucks were in the position to make the pitch but they had little chance of landing him. While the Leafs put themselves in the situation to make a pitch to Tavares, they also had Matthews, Marner, and Nylander to sign. As we have seen, they are having a ton of trouble doing it so I'm not sure that you can use Toronto as a shining example of cap management and foresight.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure you can give too much credit to a team for bringing a hometown boy home.

 

[Phenomenon13]

I appreciate the bold moves...

Glad he didn’t remain status quo like some wanted.
Status quo on a team that missed the playoffs for 4 yrs? Not logical.

He’s built this team for the next two yrs.... nothing wrong with that if the targeted assets plug the holes we had the last couple yrs... more good vets to produce and help maximize the development of the youth on the club.

There is still cap flexibility to be worked in for next offseason.

I never said anything about maintaining the status quo. I think you should re-read what I wrote. I have no problem with bold moves either.

I am very aware of the fact we have missed 4 straight years of playoffs. It's also tied a franchise record for consecutive playoff misses. What I think is illogical is Benning missing 3 straight years and still keeping his job. It's never happened in our franchise's history.

I have no doubt we have become a better team this season but I don't believe the holes are plugged well enough ex. Defense. Currently, We're a bubble team with little to no chance of being an actual contender for the next two years and there's not much flexibility for the next 2 years to add a major piece to push into the next level.

I agree with your points but not your examples. The Canucks had tons of cap room last season and could have pursued Tavares. In fact, there were reports that that was what Benning wanted to do but Linden didn't. Of course you have to put yourself in the position to make the pitch and then whether you have a realistic chance of landing that player is a whole different matter. The Canucks were in the position to make the pitch but they had little chance of landing him. While the Leafs put themselves in the situation to make a pitch to Tavares, they also had Matthews, Marner, and Nylander to sign. As we have seen, they are having a ton of trouble doing it so I'm not sure that you can use Toronto as a shining example of cap management and foresight.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure you can give too much credit to a team for bringing a hometown boy home.

I am glad about you agreeing with my points and the importance of opportunity. I don't know if you can determine if you have a realistic chance of obtaining a player without having the potential capspace to sign him and see how he fits into your team. However, my point about having capspace doesn't necessarily mean free agency. It could be via trade in which we can take on a high level high salary player ex. Kessel, Oshie, Karlsson, Stone, etc... Having the capspace gives you a better opportunity in acquiring another key player to push your team to the next level.

There was no guarantee that Tavares was going to the Leafs. Franchise players in their prime leaving their franchise is quite rare.
How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca
If you read this story by Freidman, Tavares joined because they had a young core with a good chance of being a contending team. If you want to discredit a GM for getting a hometown guy, I think that's up to you. I believe a GM gets credit for all his moves good and bad and I've said this before.

I disagree that Toronto is having cap trouble. Once they LTIR Horton and paper someone down, they will have about 10 million in cap space which should be enough to sign Marner. The only big head scratcher is the signing of Ceci that has left them vulnerable to an offersheet should Marner desire it. I think the team they've built has shown that the management group of the leafs have very good foresight. They pushed the healthy Bruins to 7 games last year and just got better. They're without a doubt a contender and will be for foreseeable future. If you still disagree with my example, that's fine. I feel that I've done enough to defend my statement and we can agree to disagree! You've already understood and agreed with my points of arguments in the original post.

 

[DL44]

I never said anything about maintaining the status quo. I think you should re-read what I wrote. I have no problem with bold moves either.

I am very aware of the fact we have missed 4 straight years of playoffs. It's also tied a franchise record for consecutive playoff misses. What I think is illogical is Benning missing 3 straight years and still keeping his job. It's never happened in our franchise's history.

I have no doubt we have become a better team this season but I don't believe the holes are plugged well enough ex. Defense. Currently, We're a bubble team with little to no chance of being an actual contender for the next two years and there's not much flexibility for the next 2 years to add a major piece to push into the next level.

I guess we'll find out how well they've been plugged this yr..
I think this roster can rustle some jimmies...

There's flexibility to be had next summer... Sutter and Baer will have a single season left on their deals. Tanev, Schaller... I almost expect Tanev to re-sign next summer tho.

But hey... if they make noise this season and next it's a moot point. Team looks the deepest it's been in yrs.

 

[Jyrki21]

Ryan Biech shut down his twitter
Wonder if he got hired by a team or something?

Almost certainly.

I'll bet I can guess which team it wasn't.

 

[xtra]

We are talking about appreciating making bold moves but these bold moves are to make us a fringe bubble playoff team and that doesn’t bother people?

What’s the biggest upside anyone sees from this team in the next two years?

6 game loss in the first round of markstrom
Pulls a Jose Theodore and drags us ala the canadiens all those years ago?

Of course that happens we can’t resign him next year but I digress

 

[krutovsdonut]

Almost certainly.

I'll bet I can guess which team it wasn't.

well how'd you make out on the bet?

 

[krutovsdonut]

We are talking about appreciating making bold moves but these bold moves are to make us a fringe bubble playoff team and that doesn’t bother people?

What’s the biggest upside anyone sees from this team in the next two years?

6 game loss in the first round of markstrom
Pulls a Jose Theodore and drags us ala the canadiens all those years ago?

Of course that happens we can’t resign him next year but I digress

any playoff experience for the young core sounds good to me.

 

[Phenomenon13]

I guess we'll find out how well they've been plugged this yr..
I think this roster can rustle some jimmies...

There's flexibility to be had next summer... Sutter and Baer will have a single season left on their deals. Tanev, Schaller... I almost expect Tanev to re-sign next summer tho.

But hey... if they make noise this season and next it's a moot point. Team looks the deepest it's been in yrs.

I believe you're mistaken.

Sutter and Baertschi have 2 years left on their deals. I expect most of that Tanev's money to go to Stecher and Schaller's money to go to Leivo and Virtanen for their raises next season. Markstrom is the only big question mark to me who probably will need a raise from his 3.66 million if he does get re-signed. There's very little flexibility at all next summer. What we've got now is pretty much what we're going to get for the next 2 years.

The summer after that is when it gets interesting, we would have Edler, Baertschi, Sutter, and Pearson as the notable expiring contracts in which case most would go to Hughes and Pettersson with the rest going to their replacements (top 4 defender, 1 top 6 forward and 1 top 9 forward).

 

[Phenomenon13]

 

[xtra]

Well that’s unexpected lol; I wish we could see his old comments on the canucks now

 

[F A N]

I am glad about you agreeing with my points and the importance of opportunity. I don't know if you can determine if you have a realistic chance of obtaining a player without having the potential capspace to sign him and see how he fits into your team. However, my point about having capspace doesn't necessarily mean free agency. It could be via trade in which we can take on a high level high salary player ex. Kessel, Oshie, Karlsson, Stone, etc... Having the capspace gives you a better opportunity in acquiring another key player to push your team to the next level.

There was no guarantee that Tavares was going to the Leafs. Franchise players in their prime leaving their franchise is quite rare.
How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca
If you read this story by Freidman, Tavares joined because they had a young core with a good chance of being a contending team. If you want to discredit a GM for getting a hometown guy, I think that's up to you. I believe a GM gets credit for all his moves good and bad and I've said this before.

I disagree that Toronto is having cap trouble. Once they LTIR Horton and paper someone down, they will have about 10 million in cap space which should be enough to sign Marner. The only big head scratcher is the signing of Ceci that has left them vulnerable to an offersheet should Marner desire it. I think the team they've built has shown that the management group of the leafs have very good foresight. They pushed the healthy Bruins to 7 games last year and just got better. They're without a doubt a contender and will be for foreseeable future. If you still disagree with my example, that's fine. I feel that I've done enough to defend my statement and we can agree to disagree! You've already understood and agreed with my points of arguments in the original post.

Yes. Having the cap space gives you a better opportunity in acquiring another player to push your team to the next level. We agree that it doesn't have to mean UFAs. But I don't get your point here. The Canucks didn't spend all their cap space last season. Even with all their college UFAs signings they finished last season with the 7th most available cap space last. And again, it was rumored that Benning wanted to go after Tavares. This summer, they could of spent it on Karlsson if he was available. He wasn't. But they did spend their cap space this summer in acquiring key players to push their team to the next level (which in the Canucks' instance is the playoffs). Seems like they did what you are talking about here.

I am not discrediting a GM for getting a hometown guy to come. I'm just not giving him as much credit. Tyler Myers is a high profile free agent. So were Hamhuis, Garrison, and Willie Mitchell at the time. It's not a coincidence that they are home town boys or with family connections to BC. It's great that the Canucks beat out other teams but here was a distinct advantage. Obviously not everybody wants to play for their home town team but some do. If the Canucks have the cap space and land Barrie next season I won't be shocked. The same with Stamkos and Tavares. They were rumored to want to play for the Leafs before they even hit free agency.

Speaking of Toronto, did you forget that they traded a first round pick to get rid of Marleau's contract? They reportedly got Marleau to go to Toronto by offering an extra year compared to what the Sharks offer. If you want to talk about foresight, as soon as Tavares signed with Toronto, people wondered whether they can re-sign their pending RFAs plus build a good defense. With that said, you have an opportunity to sign Tavares you seriously think about doing so and worry about other stuff later.

 

[Fire Benning]

Almost certainly.

I'll bet I can guess which team it wasn't.

 

[timw33]

Very interesting seeing the secondary market be so tight with Ferland and Dzingle signing well under what everyone was projecting. There's something to be said for waiting out for a better offer when you aren't one of the top FAs—its probably best to take an early offer before everyone's cap constricts.

Would 1000% prefer Dzingle than Ferland based on the terms of their deals. But also, Dzingle is just a much better player who is extremely versatile.

 

[Jyrki21]

well how'd you make out on the bet?

Haha, touché! I'm pretty floored.

 

[Phenomenon13]

Yes. Having the cap space gives you a better opportunity in acquiring another player to push your team to the next level. We agree that it doesn't have to mean UFAs. But I don't get your point here. The Canucks didn't spend all their cap space last season. Even with all their college UFAs signings they finished last season with the 7th most available cap space last. And again, it was rumored that Benning wanted to go after Tavares. This summer, they could of spent it on Karlsson if he was available. He wasn't. But they did spend their cap space this summer in acquiring key players to push their team to the next level (which in the Canucks' instance is the playoffs). Seems like they did what you are talking about here.

I am not discrediting a GM for getting a hometown guy to come. I'm just not giving him as much credit. Tyler Myers is a high profile free agent. So were Hamhuis, Garrison, and Willie Mitchell at the time. It's not a coincidence that they are home town boys or with family connections to BC. It's great that the Canucks beat out other teams but here was a distinct advantage. Obviously not everybody wants to play for their home town team but some do. If the Canucks have the cap space and land Barrie next season I won't be shocked. The same with Stamkos and Tavares. They were rumored to want to play for the Leafs before they even hit free agency.

Speaking of Toronto, did you forget that they traded a first round pick to get rid of Marleau's contract? They reportedly got Marleau to go to Toronto by offering an extra year compared to what the Sharks offer. If you want to talk about foresight, as soon as Tavares signed with Toronto, people wondered whether they can re-sign their pending RFAs plus build a good defense. With that said, you have an opportunity to sign Tavares you seriously think about doing so and worry about other stuff later.

Let me clarify about the type of transaction I am asking for. I want the Canucks to pursue an elite level talent ex. Tavares, panarin, karlsson, etc...

I used the leafs as an example because they failed to acquire Stamkos in 2016. They kept their cap space open to allow them the flexibility in bringing in an elite level talent. Two years later, they successfully acquire tavares. All the players I listed out as examples were top level players, karlsson, panarin, stone, etc...

I didnt forget that they had to move Marleau. In my opinion, they did what they had to this season and move out all their bad contracts. It was zaitsev and marleau. This is something Benning has yet to do. I think moving at least one of our bad contracts is a priority this off season. The leafs moved out their bad contracts so that they can keep their young core. I agree about that when an elite level talent presents itself without having to lose any assets besides cap space, you just take it. As for the leafs cap situation, I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Eklund reporting Isles want Boeser
Sure they do, I also want to be a dragon.

 

[timw33]

Eklund reporting Isles want Boeser
Sure they do, I also want to be a dragon.

If it isn't Barzal-for-Boeser or a package around Dobson + Pulock, that'll be a hard no from me.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Eklund reporting Isles want Boeser
Sure they do, I also want to be a dragon.

Reminds me of when sportsnet had the RFA list up and had Boeser listed as offer sheet eligible. Just zero thought process or due diligence

 

[VanJack]

Reminds me of when sportsnet had the RFA list up and had Boeser listed as offer sheet eligible. Just zero thought process or due diligence

Absolutely correct. Boeser isn't eligible for arbitration or an offer sheet. So the only way he'd ever arrive in Brooklyn with the Islanders would be via a trade. And looking at the current rosters, there's nothing that fits. Obviously the Canucks would need to get a scoring winger back in any deal for Boeser, and the Isles really don't have any to offer up. So put this in the rumor trash-bin.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Absolutely correct. Boeser isn't eligible for arbitration or an offer sheet. So the only way he'd ever arrive in Brooklyn with the Islanders would be via a trade. And looking at the current rosters, there's nothing that fits. Obviously the Canucks would need to get a scoring winger back in any deal for Boeser, and the Isles really don't have any to offer up. So put this in the rumor trash-bin.

I’d be willing to look at a high quality defenceman for Boeser, but I’m talking 21-23 years old already 1st pairing defenceman.
The Isles have some maybes in Pulock and Dobson to one day maybe be that. But right now not so much