Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

[Hit the post]

Bailey is sort of a poor man's Jake Virtanen.

Big guy, rangy strong skater, hard shot ... absolutely no tool box and has never developed the sort of defensive/physical game to allow him to stick in a bottom-6 role. Will be a solid 2nd line type for Utica.

Buffalo fans were tantalized by his tools for years but he could just never do anything with them.

Jim Sandlak v2.0?

 

[sting101]

Yep gotta be 9 deep at each foraward position and quite frankly if your prospects cannot beat out AHL scrubs for ice time send them to the ECHL because they likely are never gonna be worth caring about from a NHL team perspective.

How many are worried about where Petrus Palmu fits now?

 

[I in the Eye]

Oh ok... So Virtanen is probably on the market then to be traded, to free up some cap room to sign Ferland. Benning has secured his Virtanen replacement.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Last year at this time, the team had :

Boeser
Horvat
Pettersson
Eriksson
Roussel
Beagle
Schaller
Sutter
Goldobin
Virtanen
Granlund
Motte
Baertschi
Gaudette
Gaunce
Archibald
Leipsic
Gagner
MacEwen
Boucher
Kero
Dahlen
Lind
Gadjovich
Jasek

... under contract or to be under contract. Same parameters you gave for this year. That's 25 forwards, so actually more than your list. How did that turn out?

You're tricking yourself same as Benning does and vastly underestimating the amount of injuries and roster flux we'll see.

fair enough, but the ahl list last year included 6 ahl rookies, whereas the current forward list includes none. the ahl mix this year vs. last year looks like

last year
motte, gaudette, kero, boucher, archibald, gaunce, macewen, dahlen, palmu, lind, jasek, gadjovic

this year
motte/schaller, gaudette, graovic, boucher, bailey, perron, camper, macwen, dahlen, lind, jasek, gadjovic

which seems like a deeper more experienced list.

i don't know if depth forwards like hamilton and bancks are coming back or not.

 

[MS]

fair enough, but the ahl list last year included 6 ahl rookies, whereas the current forward list includes none. the ahl mix this year vs. last year looks like

last year
motte, gaudette, kero, boucher, archibald, gaunce, macewen, dahlen, palmu, lind, jasek, gadjovic

this year
motte/schaller, gaudette, graovic, boucher, bailey, perron, camper, macwen, dahlen, lind, jasek, gadjovic

which seems like a deeper more experienced list.

i don't know if depth forwards like hamilton and bancks are coming back or not.

The only reason that looks ‘more experienced’ is because Lind/Gadjovic/Palmu/Jasek are a year older. And it also looks worse because those guys were so bad last year.

Also I forgot Palmu on the original list so they’re actually 2 contracts short of last year.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

The only reason that looks ‘more experienced’ is because Lind/Gadjovic/Palmu/Jasek are a year older. And it also looks worse because those guys were so bad last year.

Also I forgot Palmu on the original list so they’re actually 2 contracts short of last year.

I am hopeful that Lind, Gadjovich and Jasek should at least progress a bit from where they were last year. Not line carriers or top-six forwards mind you, but establishing themselves as non-liability bottom six players would at least be an improvement for the team, if not for them in their own development overall as well.

I think some of the guys we've brought in - namely Camper and Graovac - should be as good if not hopefully a bit better than Gaunce and Kero, too.

 

[MS]

I am hopeful that Lind, Gadjovich and Jasek should at least progress a bit from where they were last year. Not line carriers or top-six forwards mind you, but establishing themselves as non-liability bottom six players would at least be an improvement for the team, if not for them in their own development overall as well.

I think some of the guys we've brought in - namely Camper and Graovac - should be as good if not hopefully a bit better than Gaunce and Kero, too.

Camper and Graovac are worse players than Gaunce and Kero. Both of those guys were outstanding for Utica last year as two-way forwards although Gaunce fell off late offensively.

Lind and Gadjovich should improve somewhat and I think Lind should competently hold down a middle-6 spot for that team. Jasek I'm not so sure.

Basically all that's happened so far is that a whole bunch of chairs have been re-arranged.

 

[Melvin]

If you want a laugh, go back and read the Utica comments at this time last year. They were Calder cup favourite with multiple ahl all stars in Lind, palmu, Gadjovich and Dahlen.

 

[Hansen]

If you want a laugh, go back and read the Utica comments at this time last year. They were Calder cup favourite with multiple ahl all stars in Lind, palmu, Gadjovich and Dahlen.

Still cant believe how hard Palmu flopped, I thought he had the wheels and strength to bring it at the AHL level

 

[I in the Eye]

I'm excited to see this year's crop of prospects making the jump to Utica this year. Combined with last year's crop, the future is looking bright.

 

[PG Canuck]

If you want a laugh, go back and read the Utica comments at this time last year. They were Calder cup favourite with multiple ahl all stars in Lind, palmu, Gadjovich and Dahlen.

Lind and Gadjovich were seen as gods

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

If you want a laugh, go back and read the Utica comments at this time last year. They were Calder cup favourite with multiple ahl all stars in Lind, palmu, Gadjovich and Dahlen.

Yeah, I was probably pretty hyped as well...I don't feel like going back and looking at how wrong we all were. But I was legitimately excited that Dahlen, Lind and Gadjovich would have at least "solid" rookie AHL seasons. Alas, it wasn't meant to be...

 

[MS]

If you want a laugh, go back and read the Utica comments at this time last year. They were Calder cup favourite with multiple ahl all stars in Lind, palmu, Gadjovich and Dahlen.

It's absolutely incredible how poor people are at understanding the mechanics of prospect development and AHL success. MORE PROSPECTS MORE WINS! ALL PROSPECTS GOOD! LOOK AT ALL THE DEPTH IN THIS ROSTER I CONSTRUCTED IN JULY!

That said, it was a bit unusual that 5 of the 6 decent-to-good prospects hitting Utica crashed and burned (Gaudette being the exception). Normally it's about a 50/50 sink/swim rate. This year that problem has been thankfully averted by having basically 0 prospects under the age of 24 stepping into the roster. Overage UFA Mitch Eliot and that's it. Pretty incredible for a 'rebuilding team', actually.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah, I was probably pretty hyped as well...I don't feel like going back and looking at how wrong we all were. But I was legitimately excited that Dahlen, Lind and Gadjovich would have at least "solid" rookie AHL seasons. Alas, it wasn't meant to be...

It's absolutely incredible how poor people are at understanding the mechanics of prospect development and AHL success. MORE PROSPECTS MORE WINS! ALL PROSPECTS GOOD! LOOK AT ALL THE DEPTH IN THIS ROSTER I CONSTRUCTED IN JULY!

That said, it was a bit unusual that 5 of the 6 decent-to-good prospects hitting Utica crashed and burned (Gaudette being the exception). Normally it's about a 50/50 sink/swim rate. This year that problem has been thankfully averted by having basically 0 prospects under the age of 24 stepping into the roster. Overage UFA Mitch Eliot and that's it. Pretty incredible for a 'rebuilding team', actually.

Ya for sure. Dahlen was a legit shock to me as he'd been playing professionally and excelling so he should have been able to challenge for an NHL spot, I thought. The hype was over the top but the way that all those guys basically faceplanted was pretty crazy.

 

[I in the Eye]

Ya for sure. Dahlen was a legit shock to me as he'd been playing professionally and excelling so he should have been able to challenge for an NHL spot, I thought. The hype was over the top but the way that all those guys basically faceplanted was pretty crazy.

They were consumed and smothered by the culture. Dahlen said as much on his way out.

 

[MS]

Ya for sure. Dahlen was a legit shock to me as he'd been playing professionally and excelling so he should have been able to challenge for an NHL spot, I thought. The hype was over the top but the way that all those guys basically faceplanted was pretty crazy.

Yeah, Dahlen was the one that really surprised me, too. Thought he actually had a chance to step into the NHL given his pedigree and history with Pettersson and the hands he showed in the couple highlight packages we had access to. Had the skill, but I've simply never seen a softer, more contact-averse player in NA pro hockey. And he was slow. The scouting reports on him were really, really off. And maybe we overestimated the strength of the Allsvenskan and we would have had better read if he was coming from the SEL.

Gadjovich I remember saying before the season I wouldn't be shocked if he ended up in the ECHL - given how badly he struggled with the uptick in pace in the OHL playoffs and WJC, what happened was actually pretty predictable. Lind I never liked much in the WHL and wasn't surprised his lack of skating ability didn't play well in the AHL, although just how horrible he looked to start the year was a bit surprising. His 2nd half was closer to what I expected him to start at. Palmu at 5'6 was always a coin flip.

 

[Hansen]

Ya for sure. Dahlen was a legit shock to me as he'd been playing professionally and excelling so he should have been able to challenge for an NHL spot, I thought. The hype was over the top but the way that all those guys basically faceplanted was pretty crazy.

the guys who had success against men in europe I had higher expectations for, Dahlen and Palmu should have been able to be top 6 producers in Utica

Lind had a shit ton of hype after his production in Jr and expectations followed but both he and Gadjovich's skating was suspect even at that level and that's always a concern moving up

As I was saying in the Motte signing thread, it would be nice if we could pull some half decent pros out of the later rounds every now and then, I think Gaudette is the only one in the past 5-6 years (Tryamkin I guess too, Forsling was jettisoned by us for some other teams half decent pro)

 

[sting101]

It all depends on injuries.
VAN:
PETTERSSON....GOLDOBIN.......BOESER..............EDLER........TANEV.................MARKSTROM
HORVAT............BAERTSCHI......ERIKSSON........HUTTON.....STECHER.............NILSSON
SUTTER.............ROUSSEL...........VIRTANEN........POULIOT....GUDBRANSON
BEAGLE.............GRANLUND.......MOTTE...............MDZ.............BIEGA
GAGNER.............SCHALLER..........LEIPSIC

UTI:
GAUDETTE.......GAUNCE...........BOUCHER..........JUOLEVI.......SIFERS..............DEMKO
KERO.................DAHLEN..........MACEWEN..........SAUTNER......BLUJUS............BACHMAN
DARCY..............ARCHIBALD.......CARCONE.........MCENENY......BRISEBOIS.........KULBAKOV
HAMILTON........BANCKS.............JASEK...............GRAHAM ......CHATFIELD

WOODS................ARSENEAU.......LIND
MACMASTER....GADJOVICH........PALMU

wasn't that bad to start but then when the inevitable injury bug came along it became one disaster after another.
Sutter meant Gaudette was in Vcr for most the year and when they sent Gagner to Toronto instead of Utica 2 GIANT size holes occured at the most important position C. If the Canucks were gonna let Gagner go elsewhere they needed to sign another C. They never did. Big mistake

The wings were what you would expect to start. By seasons end they were done, especially when Boucher was hurt and MacEwen went up to Vcr after they got rid of Dahlen and replaced Archy with Pyatt

The defense in Utica was a MASH unit and to add the goaltending was poorly constructed after Bachman was lost for the year

From a Utica stand point

C - Gagner/Gaudette Kero gone for Graovac Camper (should be an upgrade in the sense that both are gonna be in Utica full time vs just one. small win for Utica)
LW/RW - Gaunce Archibald Dahlen Carcone Palmu for Bailey Perron Lind Gadjovich Malone (looks like a wash as long as Lind can score. Could theoretically get Eriksson (doubtful) or Schaller.
D - Sifers McEneny Graham for Rafferty Tevez LeBlanc Eliot (Not a big difference. Health is key last year was brutal)
GK - Demko for McIntyre/DiPietro (inevitable downgrade)

Key will be health and stability. If the Canucks are in it come the deadline its not too likely there are a lot of moves that gut Utica like last year but we'll see. Comets should be a middle pack team

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Normal scouts come and leave
At least the big ones are still here

Two of the three scouts we fired were in charge of OHL and QMJHL, so I’m not really upset that we let them go

 

[Blue and Green]

GK - Demko for McIntyre/DiPietro (inevitable downgrade)

DiPietro could land in the ECHL this season. He is probably considered to have more NHL potential than Kielly in the long term but right now Kielly is probably more advanced. Might make sense to have DiPietro being the #1 at a lower level and Kielly as backup at the higher level.

 

[DL44]

How much interest is there in helping the Flames make cap space for Tkachuk and Bennett?

Frolik - 1 yr left at $4.3mil

Pretty sure Dzingel and Johansson will require term... Frolik has none. Give em Leivo..
Buys us a yr to target a more ideal winger next offseason.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

How much interest is there in helping the Flames make cap space for Tkachuk and Bennett?

Frolik - 1 yr left at $4.3mil

Pretty sure Dzingel and Johansson will require term... Frolik has none. Give em Leivo..
Buys us a yr to target a more ideal winger next offseason.

We don't have enough cap in all likelihood. Would be a good target though.

 

[xtra]

fair enough, but the ahl list last year included 6 ahl rookies, whereas the current forward list includes none. the ahl mix this year vs. last year looks like

last year
motte, gaudette, kero, boucher, archibald, gaunce, macewen, dahlen, palmu, lind, jasek, gadjovic

this year
motte/schaller, gaudette, graovic, boucher, bailey, perron, camper, macwen, dahlen, lind, jasek, gadjovic

which seems like a deeper more experienced list.

i don't know if depth forwards like hamilton and bancks are coming back or not.

Wait didn’t Dahlen get traded. Pretty hard to take someone serious when they don’t know what they are arguing.

 

[krutovsdonut]

They were consumed and smothered by the culture. Dahlen said as much on his way out.

sad that dahlen was then was consumed and smothered by the culture of the barracudas also.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Wait didn’t Dahlen get traded. Pretty hard to take someone serious when they don’t know what they are arguing.

you got me with a typo.