Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

[PetterssonSimp]

Ya, JD.

Ok I honestly had this really funny vision of Brian Burke sitting behind a sportsnet panel trying to mumble his way through an explanation of how WAR works!
Wait, now I wanna pay for this to happen! I need a laugh now after all this Canucks offseason talk

 

[DonnyNucker]

Ok I honestly had this really funny vision of Brian Burke sitting behind a sportsnet panel trying to mumble his way through an explanation of how WAR works!
Wait, now I wanna pay for this to happen! I need a laugh now after all this Canucks offseason talk

Brian Burke talking about WAR. LMFAO. That would hilarious

 

[MS]

Yes, issues with the AHL, his time in Utica. Dahlen wasn't happy here... He was having issues in Utica. Nothing on his unwillingness to battle in corners or being an ultra-soft player coming out of the San Jose system. Anything before his time in Utica? I can't find anything... You'd think this commentary would continue from before he got here, to after he left, as they are major issues that fans and commentators would/should comment on. Major talking points here, that question the very validity as a prospect going forward. If he's a soft player who is scared of contact, he's not going to make it.

Is that an attempted bait? Are you looking for a snarky reply? That does this board no good.

I can't comment on his time before Utica.

I can tell you that it wasn't an icetime or confidence issue in Utica. He was given top-6 icetime from day 1 of the season and was a fixture on the top PP. He played 1 game all year on the 4th line which was his first game coming back from a concussion, and which was actually by far his best game of the season. And he had plenty of confidence on the PP.

The guy just couldn't skate and separate himself from AHL defenders, and was constantly on the perimeter. He scored 2 goals in 58 games in ES situations (stats will tell you he had 6 ES goals, but 1 was in 3-on-3 OT, 1 was an EN goal, 1 was in a PP situation in the last minute with the goalie pulled, and 1 was as the extra attacker in a delayed penalty situation). The coaches kept putting him out there, and he kept absolutely sucking ass. And apparently when they tried to tell him he needed to be more involved, he pouted and demanded a trade.

I am extremely hard on this organization. I hold them at zero fault for Dahlen's issues. His failure rests entirely on his shoulders.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

The AHL is right there with the K. It’s a brutally tough league.

Simply by sheer numbers the AHL should be around that level. Liiga isn’t a big numbers league in the sense they don’t have a huge number of teams which translates to not a huge number of players.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Brian Burke talking about WAR. LMFAO. That would hilarious

I’m glad I’m not the only who thinks so.

Honestly would pay to see Dim and Burkey have a debate on advanced statistics tracking.

 

[Jyrki21]

Beagle has negative value.

He's a $1.5 million 34 y/o 4th line center who got paid double that because of recency bias and playing a small role on a Cup win. No other organization would touch his remaining 3 years/$9 million with a 10-foot pole.

He has magically helped craft a "winning culture" by losing just a crapload of games.

 

[canucksfan]

Is there a way on cap friendly to construct a roster of players you get to pick. Trying to see how much cap space Nucks will have after they send some plugs down

 

[RandV]

We just ignoring Jakob Markstrom was a fringe NHL back up then spent a year there and is now the Canucks starter?
I’m not a fan of his, but Thatcher Demko went to Utica and has transitioned to Canucks backup goalie?
Jake Virtanen bordered on complete waste of time prospect to reasonable depth NHL player. Which is an honest to god improvement to what he was trending too before his stint there.

I'm not getting involved in the other part of the argument but just wanted to say that goalie development is pretty much a separate entity from skater development.

 

[Tryforthekingdom]

Is there a way on cap friendly to construct a roster of players you get to pick. Trying to see how much cap space Nucks will have after they send some plugs down

Create an Armchair-GM Team - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[canucksfan]

Create an Armchair-GM Team - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Awesome, thanks.

 

[RandV]

Simply by sheer numbers the AHL should be around that level. Liiga isn’t a big numbers league in the sense they don’t have a huge number of teams which translates to not a huge number of players.

I've always seen it as apples and oranges. It's NA hockey vs European hockey, and AHL has 31 teams acting as primarily development squads for the NHL club while the various European leagues are non-development and running around 10-20 teams (KHL - 25, SM-Liiga 15, SHL-14, SNL-12, etc). KHL is high but they range from having teams that could compete in the NHL at the top to having teams that wouldn't make the playoffs in the AHL.

Basically what I'm getting the AHL is largely diluted and a lot more balanced. If you made teams focus on being competitive rather than developmental, then took the entire player pool and shrunk it down to a European size league, then it probably becomes at least equal to the KHL and well above the rest.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Tommi Santala, remember him? He's still playing and producing in that Finnish league. That hockey writers piece is complete trash.

*edit* holy crap I just realized that 39 year old Tommi Santala, was 32nd in SM-Liiga scoring this past year. Incredible people rate that league above the NHL.

The AHL is a more difficult league and more closely mirrors the NHL than any other league on the planet.


More on the Finnish League: You ever heard of Justin Danforth? He's a 26 year old canadian who couldn't even hold down an AHL job and he's the 5th leading scorer of the Liiga.

Sometimes I think people judge the entire AHL based on the Canucks piss poor system. It's unwise to do so.

Anyone who doesnt have NHL aspirations and is willing to move away is going to the KHL,SHL,SWISS and yes Liiga.

Also its SUPPOSED to be a developmental league where prospect development takes precedence over always icing the strongest possible roster.


I will gladly change my mind if you guys can provide me a reason to do so.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

I'm not getting involved in the other part of the argument but just wanted to say that goalie development is pretty much a separate entity from skater development.

I don’t disagree but that’s not what we are discussing.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I am extremely hard on this organization. I hold them at zero fault for Dahlen's issues. His failure rests entirely on his shoulders.

I like to think that when someone has physical talent but mental blocks the right kind of coaching can get through to him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not getting involved in the other part of the argument but just wanted to say that goalie development is pretty much a separate entity from skater development.

I agree.

I also get why you dont want to get in to this argument.

 

[4Twenty]

Anyone who doesnt have NHL aspirations and is willing to move away is going to the KHL,SHL,SWISS and yes Liiga.

Also its SUPPOSED to be a developmental league where prospect development takes precedence over always icing the strongest possible roster.


I will gladly change my mind if you guys can provide me a reason to do so.

How does me pointing out ECHLers and 39 year old players being top players in the league not convince you?

 

[canucksfan]

So I made a roster on capfrendly and it says 1.9 million in cap space but 3.7 million in bonuses. Does that get added on to the team's cap?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How does me pointing out ECHLers and 39 year old players being top players in the league not convince you?

Carter Verhaeghe scored 82 points in the AHL, led the league in scoring. He was a ECHL player 2015-17.

Tommi Santala scored at a 0.72 point per game pace in the AHL through out his career...

 

[4Twenty]

Carter Verhaeghe scored 82 points in the AHL, led the league in scoring. He was a ECHL player 2015-17.

Tommi Santala scored at a 0.72 point per game pace in the AHL through out his career...

Are you Finnish?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Are you Finnish?

Yes.


Are you North American?

 

[4Twenty]

Yes.


Are you North American?

I am.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I am.

I'd like to think I have very little national bias here.

If anything I've been exposed to Liiga hockey way more than AHL hockey. Probably a 100 fold, with out exaggerating.

Im honestly open to changing my mind on this. Im just not convinced.

Also if it helps; I started with the assumption that AHL is better until I listened to scouts and podcasters.

 

[passive voice]

Ya for sure. Dahlen was a legit shock to me as he'd been playing professionally and excelling so he should have been able to challenge for an NHL spot, I thought. The hype was over the top but the way that all those guys basically faceplanted was pretty crazy.

I can't defend Benning's processes but I do feel like he's gotten a little unlucky on the sheer number of guys who haven't worked at all.

 

[MS]

I like to think that when someone has physical talent but mental blocks the right kind of coaching can get through to him.

Some guys yes, some guys no.

In the end, it's up to the player to compete if he wants to play in the best league in the world, and he simply didn't. And even if he did compete, his skating probably would have prevented him succeeding anyway.

And given that it seems like even after going to SJ and getting a fresh start he's possibly returning to Sweden next year, it really seems that this guy didn't want it bad enough.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Some guys yes, some guys no.

In the end, it's up to the player to compete if he wants to play in the best league in the world, and he simply didn't. And even if he did compete, his skating probably would have prevented him succeeding anyway.

And given that it seems like even after going to SJ and getting a fresh start he's possibly returning to Sweden next year, it really seems that this guy didn't want it bad enough.

Oh I agree. I just feel like our Utica front office mirrors our pro teams management. We dont really expect them to do anything.

Wasnt the sweden rumour debunked already?