Rumor: Blow it up or nah? Part II

[CobraAcesS]

Uhm you forgot this part. You know, the part where you're implying we actually had an option to trade Duchene over O'Reilly, because we really didn't. It's the same as implying we just let Stastny walk.

You are reading way into what I was saying, almost as if English is a second language. Please just stop

Notice the part that says 'I', and how I mention using hindsight?


Edit: Also if you want to crap on the franchises decision making, there is a lot more decisions there to sift through than with Stastny. I'm not one that feels like the franchises hands are clean in how the dealt with O'Reilly from the onset.

O'Reilly also could have been kept, and trading Duchene as well as meeting his contract demands could have been a direction they took. By no means were they forced to trade O'Reilly.

 

[PAZ]

You are reading way into what I was saying, almost as if English is a second language. Please just stop

Notice the part that says 'I', and how I mention using hindsight?

The poster you're talking about also mentioned hindsight when talking about Stastny. I fail to see where your two comparisons differ.

I really like how you're trying to divert the conversation though, please go on.

 

[Avs44]

You are reading way into what I was saying, almost as if English is a second language. Please just stop

Notice the part that says 'I', and how I mention using hindsight?

Obviously everything we say is "I," since it's just our opinions, and I said "in hindsight" as well so...



This is a silly topic so hopefully we can all end this now before it gets more personal, but PAZ is kinda right in the sense that it's comparable.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Sigh. You guys know better. This is not an acceptable tone for this conversation. Dial it back, please. It would also be nice to find the purpose of the rehash too.

 

[Avs44]

Sigh. You guys know better. This is not an acceptable tone for this conversation. Dial it back, please. It would also be nice to find the purpose of the rehash too.

You sound like a disappointed parent

 

[tigervixxxen]

You sound like a disappointed parent

Haha maybe so

 

[Pokecheque]

Y'all need to go back and fix your quote brackets!

Anyhow, I don't blame Stastny one bit for taking that contract. I do believe he's a legit top-line guy who can play a very good two-way game, but right now he's getting superstar money, and while I continue to be one of his biggest fans I don't think he's that. STL IMO made a mistake there--Stastny didn't add the much-needed dynamic STL needed at that point in time. The one thing that deal has going for it is that it's short-term. If he wanted to come back after that deal expires I'd welcome him back with open arms. For the record I think he was absolutely worth his previous deal, every single penny. Wasn't his fault that injuries and an appendicitis hampered him for a couple seasons and the rest were wasted with terrible lineups and coaching.

In any event I don't expect people to agree with me on Sortaberg. I realize my opinion may be a bit extreme but I've officially written him off. I don't think he's remotely worth the contract he's been signed to. Even when he was doing "well" for the Avs last season he still wasn't providing adequate defensive play, which was kinda/sorta supposed to be his point. And I don't agree that he would leave a gaping hole in the lineup if he were to be jettisoned tomorrow. He IS a hole in the lineup. My only hope for him is slapping him onto either MacK's or Dutchy's wing where he'd have a lighter workload and maybe provide some sniper-type goals. Otherwise I think he's pretty much useless. I don't even think he's a run-of-the-mill 2C. Tyler Bozak is that, and I think Bozak is better than Sortaberg...and I'm by no means a Bozak fan.

#32 and #34 are by far the biggest anchors on this team going forward. The Avs will not truly improve until both are gone.

 

[agentblack]

What are the likely scenarios of getting another first next draft? trading Picks? or Duchene?

 

[Pokecheque]

What are the likely scenarios of getting another first next draft? trading Picks? or Duchene?

Picks will not yield a 1st rounder. Duchene most assuredly would in a package deal...but, pray tell, why would you want two firsts in a relatively weak draft?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Y'all need to go back and fix your quote brackets!

Anyhow, I don't blame Stastny one bit for taking that contract. I do believe he's a legit top-line guy who can play a very good two-way game, but right now he's getting superstar money, and while I continue to be one of his biggest fans I don't think he's that. STL IMO made a mistake there--Stastny didn't add the much-needed dynamic STL needed at that point in time. The one thing that deal has going for it is that it's short-term. If he wanted to come back after that deal expires I'd welcome him back with open arms. For the record I think he was absolutely worth his previous deal, every single penny. Wasn't his fault that injuries and an appendicitis hampered him for a couple seasons and the rest were wasted with terrible lineups and coaching.

In any event I don't expect people to agree with me on Sortaberg. I realize my opinion may be a bit extreme but I've officially written him off. I don't think he's remotely worth the contract he's been signed to. Even when he was doing "well" for the Avs last season he still wasn't providing adequate defensive play, which was kinda/sorta supposed to be his point. And I don't agree that he would leave a gaping hole in the lineup if he were to be jettisoned tomorrow. He IS a hole in the lineup. My only hope for him is slapping him onto either MacK's or Dutchy's wing where he'd have a lighter workload and maybe provide some sniper-type goals. Otherwise I think he's pretty much useless. I don't even think he's a run-of-the-mill 2C. Tyler Bozak is that, and I think Bozak is better than Sortaberg...and I'm by no means a Bozak fan.

#32 and #34 are by far the biggest anchors on this team going forward. The Avs will not truly improve until both are gone.

I think there is still at least some chance that Soderberg plays better than he did the first bit, and he has been better the last few games.

FB's drop off is sharper than I expected, but I also was hoping that he'd have to play less this year.

I can't really disagree with you that Soderberg's contract could get frustrating here soon though. Hopefully he plays better this season, and Sakic is smart enough to make him the best option for Vegas to draft.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What are the likely scenarios of getting another first next draft? trading Picks? or Duchene?

My guess would be Pickard.

Doubtful he returns a first, given the goalie market right now is awful. He'd probably have to become our run away starter the next two months and have a >.920% for that to be a possibility. Even then, with much more proven guys like Bishop and Fleury on the market it'd be a tough sell.



Maybe, just maybe we might be able to do something like Iginla + our 2nd for a teams 1st. Someone like Washington or Chicago who are looking very likely to have a 1st no better then 27th might be willing to move down into the early 2nd(Under the assumption we stay in the basement and end up being in the 35-49 range). But that would require Iggy's production going up a pretty significant amount. Right now I think he's probably only worth a 3rd from the elite teams or a 4th.


Our most valuable deadline asset to trade may just turn out to be Bourque. If he continues his current pace and has ~15-20 Goals, 30-35 points at the deadline we might be able to get a late 2nd for him. Would certainly be a welcomed asset considering Bourque came in on a PTO.




Regarding the Soderberg talk. He has been better the last few games no doubt. He was much more engaged when he was playing with Greer, and that seemed to continue last night with Dutchy and Grigs. That said, he needs to take his game at least another step forward for him to be worth that contract again. If he doesn't do that this year, I think Sakic should look at throwing Vegas a pick to take Sods from us instead of the other options. Unfortunately, if we're left with Varly and Pickard still at the end of the year, that pick may have to be a pretty high one and possibly too high to convince them not to go with Pickard/Varly.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's "weak" because the top end doesn't have a Matthews, the depth to the draft is good. I think it's getting vastly overstated to the point where picks are getting dismissed. Maybe it's not the year to get a top 3 pick but it's still valuable to have picks. We have to start getting depth and assets into the org at some point, doesn't help to wait another year to wait for a sexier draft. I guess they could deal Duchene next summer and ask for the picks to be 2018 since it wouldn't be an all futures thing anyway. But I'd gladly take picks now. I don't know that anything we have could get one straight up, goalies maybe the closest.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think there is still at least some chance that Soderberg plays better than he did the first bit, and he has been better the last few games.

FB's drop off is sharper than I expected, but I also was hoping that he'd have to play less this year.

I can't really disagree with you that Soderberg's contract could get frustrating here soon though. Hopefully he plays better this season, and Sakic is smart enough to make him the best option for Vegas to draft.

Yeah, I too thought that Beauchemin would regress slowly and eventually be put into a third pairing role, but truth of the matter is that he can't even play that. He looks so abysmally slow that all the other aspects of his game can't be brought to bear. It's a shame because skill-wise I think he's precisely what the Avs needed...too bad they couldn't have gotten the Beauchemin of about five years ago.

 

[agentblack]

Have to be honest but im totally rooting for Rene. Everytime he scores im like a stock broker on the market floor "SELL SELL!"
waving those paper thingies in a sweaty panic

 

[tigervixxxen]

Have to be honest but im totally rooting for Rene. Everytime he scores im like a stock broker on the market floor "SELL SELL!"

If he does too well they might give him an extension

 

[agentblack]

If he does too well they might give him an extension

Hush yo mouth.
Great now that the idea is out there we are gonna wake up to his new 3 year , 4.5 mill extension.

 

[Pokecheque]

If he does too well they might give him an extension

Agh...no.

 

[CobraAcesS]

If he does too well they might give him an extension

If they keep him for another year for cheap I won't cry honestly. Especially since there isn't anything worth while for forwards in free-agency.

Very specifically one year though, lol no multi year deals.

Realistically though he'd probably just test free-agency to see if he can get a multi-year offer. So they should probably sell. Hes filling that McGinn type role that we need right now though.

 

[agentblack]

It is interesting to think what could have been if they managed to snag him way back when

 

[CobraAcesS]

It is interesting to think what could have been if they managed to snag him way back when

Sometimes timing is everything though lol, as he may have needed to see his career slipping away from him as a reality check to how he needs to play. If he keeps his nose down, and uses his natural talents hes a good player, and always has been.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Man, speaking of McGinn. Boy this team could certainly use his skillset in our Top 9 right now. A 20 goal scorer who was fantastic on the forecheck, solid defensively, a good skater, and very physical at all ends of the ice.


If McGinn is the type of player Greer can develop into(With maybe some more offensive potential), that'll be a treat for us to watch.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I doubt Mcping would score 20 on this team... There's no one on the team that can pass him the puck like Stastny used to.

I remember him playing with DUchene but can't remember if they gelled well enough to pot 20 goals.

 

[Pokecheque]

Man, speaking of McGinn. Boy this team could certainly use his skillset in our Top 9 right now. A 20 goal scorer who was fantastic on the forecheck, solid defensively, a good skater, and very physical at all ends of the ice.


If McGinn is the type of player Greer can develop into(With maybe some more offensive potential), that'll be a treat for us to watch.

Well, the Ginner that wore an Avs uniform was a bit of an aberration. He only hit or came close to that 20-goal mark twice and it was during his time in CO that he did that. Any other time he never got higher than 14. It's really crazy looking back how insanely hot the guy's shooting got in two consecutive seasons--virtually everything he was throwing at the net was going in. So basically the exact opposite of MacKinnon and most of the Avs this season.

I also don't think he was that good defensively. I remember him looking kinda lost in the defensive zone. He was a great guy to have on the forecheck though.

Anyhow, Greer kinda/sorta reminds me of Ginner, though I do hope he is a little more consistent offensively, maybe just a LITTLE better defensively, and a whole lot more durable.

 

[Foppa2118]

Well, the Ginner that wore an Avs uniform was a bit of an aberration. He only hit or came close to that 20-goal mark twice and it was during his time in CO that he did that. Any other time he never got higher than 14. It's really crazy looking back how insanely hot the guy's shooting got in two consecutive seasons--virtually everything he was throwing at the net was going in. So basically the exact opposite of MacKinnon and most of the Avs this season.

I also don't think he was that good defensively. I remember him looking kinda lost in the defensive zone. He was a great guy to have on the forecheck though.

Anyhow, Greer kinda/sorta reminds me of Ginner, though I do hope he is a little more consistent offensively, maybe just a LITTLE better defensively, and a whole lot more durable.

Well to be fair he also had 11 goals and 11 assists in the lockout shortened 47 game season, which is a 19 goal, 38 point pace. Which matches his goal and point totals exactly the season after, and is within one goal and point his first season with the Avs.

His only other season with the Avs was his last injury riddled 19 game season. He was streaky within a season as a scorer, but his end of year totals were pretty consistent.

I think Ginner was pretty good in his role, but AJ definitely has better hockey smarts and puck handling IMO. Ginner shot might be better, but AJ should hopefully become a better player.

 

[finds71]

Looking at our cap situation for next year... with Iginla and stuart of the book and with the possibility of having varly go to vegas... how do you guys think we will do with all that cap space? Espacially knowing that the ufa class for next summer doesnt seem to good. Do we spend the money of 2 or 3 forwards to improve our bottom 6? Do we offer sheet somebody? Next summer could be very interesting