Rumor: Blow it up or nah? Part II

[tigervixxxen]

As I was saying in another thread, some of that money is going to go to guys to replace the departed. It would be fantastic if at least Greer, Compher and Bigras will take some of those slots rather than going out and signing the next Iggy, Mitchell and Tyutin.

 

[finds71]

As I was saying in another thread, some of that money is going to go to guys to replace the departed. It would be fantastic if at least Greer, Compher and Bigras will take some of those slots rather than going out and signing the next Iggy, Mitchell and Tyutin.

I agree, but iginla Stuart and Varly represent more than 14 millions. I know we wont spend it all, knowing that we will have to resign young guys eventually (Zads, Picks, Mikko ect..), but still, we can probably spend 5-6 million easy come July 1st (assuming varly is gone of course).
I think it would be smarter to sign a couple solid 3rd liners, it would go a long way for this team. But at the same time we could go out and offer sheet a player like Draisaitl, Tyler johson or a Panarin

 

[tigervixxxen]

If Varly is gone they have to pay for a decent backup, there's no way they just roll Pickard and Martin. A Varly trade likely brings back a goalie too. There might be some money there but it's not the windfall that it sounds like. I'm not even sure what they should do, throwing a stupid contract just to land say Oshie isn't really appealing.

 

[Pokecheque]

As I was saying in another thread, some of that money is going to go to guys to replace the departed. It would be fantastic if at least Greer, Compher and Bigras will take some of those slots rather than going out and signing the next Iggy, Mitchell and Tyutin.

Another Mitchell and Tyutin are fine, it's another Iggy, Beauch, and Stuart these guys can't afford to do anymore. They need those 2nd-tier guys to pan out. Whether that happens from within the system (ideally) or they finally get the right guy via FA or even trade, I don't really care, but it's those support players who are the biggest reason the Avs are failing so miserably right now. Get support players who can actually support, then we won't continually see these pluggers have to do more than just plug.

One thing to note is that this offseason's FA acquisitions (with the rather notable exception of Colborne, though IMO I'm not entirely sure he's been utilized properly yet) have been markedly better than ones acquired in previous years. Wiercioch and Tyutin aren't worldbeaters by any means, but they are smarter value acquisitions that perhaps signifies that the Avs are doing a better job at scouting and player observation, and in the case of Wiercioch, paying attention to the numbers. Perhaps we will see that trend continue in 2017, but who knows.

 

[finds71]

If Varly is gone they have to pay for a decent backup, there's no way they just roll Pickard and Martin. A Varly trade likely brings back a goalie too. There might be some money there but it's not the windfall that it sounds like. I'm not even sure what they should do, throwing a stupid contract just to land say Oshie isn't really appealing.

Yeah you are right about the goalie situation. But we should have enough room to targer a couple guys like Stafford, Berglund, Clutterbuck, Wingels, King or Bonino, this would do wonders for this team

 

[Foppberg]

This summer I'd really prefer to go after guys like Boyle, Clutterbuck, Wingels, etc vs going for a top free agent.

 

[Pokecheque]

I will note that while Wiercioch and maybe even Colborne may end up being great acqusitions, both of them are fairly slow skaters, and they were lumped in with a whole bunch of other slow skaters. That's a real issue when you take a slow team and make it even slower. There really needs to be an emphasis on improving the speed of this team. Anchoring Duchene and MacKinnon with a bunch of slugs is one of many things currently hampering this club offensively.

Mind you, they weren't blazing fast when Stastny and O'Reilly were still around, but they were much more able to move the puck quickly, which is one thing that allows a team to mitigate a lack of top-notch skaters. And while I think they've been much more efficient in getting the puck out of the defensive zone, spreading out and actually stretching the play a bit and challenging opposing defenses isn't happening.

 

[tigervixxxen]

These better options are going to want at least 3-4 year deals though, right? I fear that gets us back into the same situation. It looks good at the time but at some point we are going to wait for those deals to end. And I get it's unrealistic to hope to fill every hole with kids, I just hope it starts to move in that direction. I also agree that smarter one year deals like Wiercoich and even Bourque brought in seem to have been a better strategy for patching holes without the commitment.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I really like the idea of bringing in Wingels on a 3 year contract for ~3M. Think he's exactly what our bottom 6 needs. And he's young enough that I dont think it'd be a contract where we're excited for it to be entering its last year.


Clutterbuck will end up being overpaid for what he brings. I'd stay away from him. While with Boyle I think he would be a fantastic 3/4C for us and is another piece this team could really use, I also fear whatever team signs him will also sign him for a year or two longer then they should and wind up regretting it as well. 2 years would be perfect, but he likely gets 3 or even 4.



As for Varlamov. If the Avs shop him, I think NYI and Dallas are both pretty solid fits. They both have a pretty obvious need for a #1G, and both have solid backups/1B level goalies that can be sent back in the trade to form a tandem with Pickard. Just not sure what kind of a trade with either team would actually be fair value. I think it would take a pretty sizable addition from Dallas to get us to trade Varly within the division, but it might be easier to make something work with NYI.


Would NYI add a 2nd + 3rd to Halak for Varlamov? Is that a trade we would make?


EDIT: And on another note to think about. With Martin having a great season in San Antonio even with a rough team in front of him, maybe the Avs instead look at trading Pickard and grooming Martin as the eventual Varlamov replacement. His timeline for entering the NHL likely lines up better with Varlamov and his current contract situation.

I'm sure the market for Pickard would be pretty interesting right now as he's young on a good cap hit and showing lots of strong signs in the NHL. Could see a few teams(CGY, ARI, DAL, NYI) being interested in him as well. He would net us a better return compared to Varly I think as well.

 

[Pokecheque]

These better options are going to want at least 3-4 year deals though, right? I fear that gets us back into the same situation. It looks good at the time but at some point we are going to wait for those deals to end. And I get it's unrealistic to hope to fill every hole with kids, I just hope it starts to move in that direction. I also agree that smarter one year deals like Wiercoich and even Bourque brought in seem to have been a better strategy for patching holes without the commitment.

Yeah and the closer we get to the next lockout the more these FAs are going to want these awful "buyout proof" contracts that yield a low base salary in favor of high signing bonuses (I'm guessing that will be the next "Hill" the owners will die on).

Every free agent signing will entail some risk. There are a few ways to mitigate that risk:

1. Don't sign anyone over 35 (Iginla, Beauchemin, Stuart) to anything more than 1 year.

2. Study their underlying numbers and usage. If they managed decent numbers but did so playing sheltered minutes (Soderberg) then maybe they're not good bets.

3. Obviously if they've become a bit brittle over the years (Horton) then avoid avoid avoid. Of course that can backfire too. Brooks Laich and Steven Stamkos both had extremely good track records of health before signing big deals, and then...

Yes, given how stupid free agency has become, it might be near-impossible to acquire a top-tier guy and avoid paying through the nose. Lower-tier acquisitions appear to be the way to go.

Come to think of it, I don't recall the last time the Avs went big on free agency and had it work out. The most notable FA acquisitions the team has ever made have been Teemu Selanne, Paul Kariya (yes, I know they were gotten at a discount but they still count), Ryan Smyth, and Scott Hannan. None of those guys really panned out, even though Smyth and Hannan weren't terrible.

Conversely, when the Avs went smaller, they got much better results: Brisebois (yes, he was good the first year, shut up), Turgeon, Brunette, Laperriere. All those guys made huge contributions for an aging Avs squad that had extremely limited cap room.

 

[Pokecheque]

If Varly is gone they have to pay for a decent backup, there's no way they just roll Pickard and Martin. A Varly trade likely brings back a goalie too. There might be some money there but it's not the windfall that it sounds like. I'm not even sure what they should do, throwing a stupid contract just to land say Oshie isn't really appealing.

Why does a Varly trade have to net a goalie in return? They can sign a decent backup for cheap. While I wouldn't be thrilled with a Pickard/Greiss tandem there are worse scenarios.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Why does a Varly trade have to net a goalie in return? They can sign a decent backup for cheap. While I wouldn't be thrilled with a Pickard/Greiss tandem there are worse scenarios.

I wouldn't say must but if it's in season then the money swap and the fact that the Avs would need a backup come into play. Also say they move one goalie before expansion they still need a goalie to expose. If they decide to roll with Picks as the starter they probably need an above average vet backup for a couple years, I don't think they would come super cheap.

 

[PAZ]

I wouldn't say must but if it's in season then the money swap and the fact that the Avs would need a backup come into play. Also say they move one goalie before expansion they still need a goalie to expose. If they decide to roll with Picks as the starter they probably need an above average vet backup for a couple years, I don't think they would come super cheap.

Being able to play in a 1B situation is enticing for a lot of goalies.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I doubt Mcping would score 20 on this team... There's no one on the team that can pass him the puck like Stastny used to.

I remember him playing with DUchene but can't remember if they gelled well enough to pot 20 goals.

He's scoring at a 22 goal pace (per 82 games) in Arizona right now and his two most common linemates are Duclair and Martinook. Rene bourque is scoring at a 32 goal pace in his current situation. Neither of those trends are likely to continue but it's not crazy to think Mcginn would pot 20 in Rene's situation.

 

[AslanRH]

Sometimes I think some of you post just to read your own words, and screw paying attention to what actually happened in reality at the time. Like Colorado and Patrick Roy didn't do everything within reason to keep the player?

Stastny got a reasonable offer and left, even after stringing the franchise along talking about home town discount.

7M for a sub 50 point center? LOL

I don't really blame anyone for forgetting this, but they also tried to get James Neal at the draft as well. So Iginla was never the first option, he was third, maybe more.

Seriously the level of attnetion to details from the past, at times reminds me of the level of knowledge the casual fans on facebook desplay when they complain about Cody Mcleod being scratched or having the A taken. STOP ACTING LIKE WE JUST LET STASTNY WALK

Not worth a full rehash,

but no one has yet shown me any evidence that the Avs made an offer above 6m (10% less than his contract at the time) before the end of the season when he could see the window to talk to other teams, so IMO that isn't "everything within reason" while being strung along unless they thought discount meant flat out clearance sale.

Also, lets not forget that Roy, and many on this board said Duchene-MacK was the only future at #1&#2 center for this team. Even when many argued one if not both could succeed at wing.

of course I'm probably just one of those casual fans who don't pay enough attention and don't have my inside sources

 

[Avs71]

Would anyone here trade Bigras for Boone Jenner? Or would anyone here not trade Bigras for Boone Jenner?

Not sure how that question should be worded.

 

[Iceberg]

Would anyone here trade Bigras for Boone Jenner? Or would anyone here not trade Bigras for Boone Jenner?

Not sure how that question should be worded.

I would NOT trade Bigras for Jenner.

Edit: And i also don't think Columbus would have any interest in that trade.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Would anyone here trade Bigras for Boone Jenner? Or would anyone here not trade Bigras for Boone Jenner?

Not sure how that question should be worded.

I would not.

I think Boone Jenner is very much what we need to add to our top 6 right now and if we were contending this would be something I'd definitely look into. We aren't ready to contender though and we're much better off saving our best D prospect and hoping someone like Greer turns into our Boone Jenner by the time we're ready to win some hockey games.

 

[Avs71]

I would NOT trade Bigras for Jenner.

Interesting. High on Bigras or low on Jenner?

A Columbus fan has a thread on the main board asking for a player that doesn't need to be protected in the expansion draft in return for Jenner.

Plays center or left wing, scored 30 goals last season, 6'-2, 53 percent on the draw last season. 23 years old.

Would fit what this team needs pretty well.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Bigras should not be traded unless it's for a clear upgrade. Bigras is not expendable at all, he's a big part of the team's future.

 

[Iceberg]

Interesting. High on Bigras or low on Jenner?

A Columbus fan has a thread on the main board asking for a player that doesn't need to be protected in the expansion draft in return for Jenner.

Plays center or left wing, scored 30 goals last season, 6'-2, 53 percent on the draw last season. 23 years old.

Would fit what this team needs pretty well.

Our defense sucks! After Bigras what we have in terms of D prospects?

Basically, what Kento said.

 

[Avs71]

To be fair, our forwards suck too.

 

[AvsCOL]

This summer I'd really prefer to go after guys like Boyle, Clutterbuck, Wingels, etc vs going for a top free agent.

I'd be totally okay with that. With guys like Greer, Compher, Jost waiting in the wings, I'd prefer to add some key depth players. Look to teams like Pittsburgh that have three lines that can contribute consistently.

Interesting. High on Bigras or low on Jenner?

A Columbus fan has a thread on the main board asking for a player that doesn't need to be protected in the expansion draft in return for Jenner.

Plays center or left wing, scored 30 goals last season, 6'-2, 53 percent on the draw last season. 23 years old.

Would fit what this team needs pretty well.

I like Jenner, but the sample size is a bit concerning. Had 30 goals last season, but outside of 2015-2016, he hasn't produced even close to that rate.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

This free agency I just hope they add pieces that will be cohesive to the team they envision. I feel like they added players this year assuming they'd work in Roy's system, only to have to switch over to Bednar. Basically none of the players added this summer would work well in a Bednar system (save for Wiercioch). We need to get faster, and get forwards that are aggressive on that forecheck. We hired a coach that uses quick breakouts and a high pressure forecheck and the only players that can do that are your best players. I'm hoping they start going away from the big slow, lumbering giants that Roy loved to have.

 

[henchman21]

I'd absolutely love to have Jenner (he brings a lot of what the Avs need), but I don't think I'd give up Bigras for him.