Rumor: Blow it up or nah? Part II

[Cousin Eddie]

Dont the Sabes need LHD ? swap Gelinas for Girgensons

That's the same as when Columbus fans say don't Colorado need a LHd and offer Harrington. Buffalo needs a top end LHD but that doesn't mean that any LHD is valuable to them. Most teams can fill a 6th/7th D role from within and Buffalo is one of them. They don't need "LHD" they need a specific LHD.

 

[agentblack]

Cant imagine he's slightly better than Falk

 

[Freaky Styley]

I wanted us to get rid of Mitchell in the offseason and replace him with Holland, so ya I would be down for Holland. I'm a Leafs fan too. He has skill but just doesn't fit with what they are doing there. Would definitely be a boost to our bottom 6 and could be had for cheap. Gelinas for Holland makes sense if we see Goloubeof as the #7 dman. Considering Holland passed through waivers earlier this year though he could probably be had for less.

 

[Avs44]

I feel like I'd rather go with hard working, gritty, aggressive, fast types in the bottom six, especially on the fourth line. Skilled bottom sixers who don't have that edge - AKA Joe Colborne's - do not fit in my opinion.

 

[Sea Eagles]

I feel like I'd rather go with hard working, gritty, aggressive, fast types in the bottom six, especially on the fourth line. Skilled bottom sixers who don't have that edge - AKA Joe Colborne's - do not fit in my opinion.

Hand Lappy a fonte of youth.

 

[Avs44]

Incidentally, watching Bourque and how surprisingly good he's been reminds me of how long this club has been lacking a genuine goal scorer. Someone who just knows how to put pucks in the back of the net. MacKinnon, Duchene despite his 30 last year, aren't those guys.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Hand Lappy a fonte of youth.

Man I miss Lappy, he was the best.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

Sounds like peter holland has fallen out of favor in Toronto. Could be a good pick up for gelinas?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If the team continues tracking in the direction it is, I think we may see a trade this summer or perhaps even before that.


Rantanen and Mackinnon should absolutely be non starters under any circumstances. After that, I dont think they should trade EJ or Landeskog. Both are guys who give it an honest 100% effort pretty much every night, and are still very good effective players and on solid/great contracts.


That leaves us with Barrie, Duchene, and Varlamov as the "core" guys who could be on the table. Personally, I really dont think Duchene has been a problem and I think he's someone we should be keeping around. So for me that would leave Barrie and Varlamov. I think its becoming more and more clear that while we all know the tremendous talent Barrie is, he's also just not fitting in well with what Bednar is trying to do. If we can find a good trade that makes sense for us, I would definitely be into moving Barrie.

And with Varlamov, it's hard to say. Still think Pickard will be a future starter in this league, but I also think it's becoming clear this year that he still fights some consistency issues and needs to sort through those yet before being thrust into a starters role. If we do move Varlamov, it needs to be an off-season trade where we can also go out and sign another good goalie to form a 1A/1B tandem with Picks for the next couple of years. Either that or we need to get a goalie who fits that decsription back in a Varly trade. Halak, Niemi, and Elliott are a couple guys who would fit that bill via trade.



The possibility of adding another Top 5 pick into this teams core is exciting, really makes the future incredibly bright looking when you have Rantanen, Jost, Zadorov, Greer, Compher, Bigras, and another Top ~5 pick added to that group, to go along with Mackinnon, Landeskog, EJ, that we already have.


But, if that scenario does play itself out, it's also another very long year for us fans likely with lots of arguing out of frustration to play out the rest of the year.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The reason why it needs to be either Duchene, Varly or Barrie for me is because this summer the first 2 will have two years to UFA and Barrie three. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they let it get to the following summer where both then become pending UFAs and I never felt like the Barrie thing was ever more than a medium term solution. I hate to see any of them traded (and I e never bought into the this core are just losers narrative) but they can't play the we'll see how it goes card. They have to seriously begin planning for the future and start making tough decisions.

 

[Foppberg]

If the team continues tracking in the direction it is, I think we may see a trade this summer or perhaps even before that.


Rantanen and Mackinnon should absolutely be non starters under any circumstances. After that, I dont think they should trade EJ or Landeskog. Both are guys who give it an honest 100% effort pretty much every night, and are still very good effective players and on solid/great contracts.


That leaves us with Barrie, Duchene, and Varlamov as the "core" guys who could be on the table. Personally, I really dont think Duchene has been a problem and I think he's someone we should be keeping around. So for me that would leave Barrie and Varlamov. I think its becoming more and more clear that while we all know the tremendous talent Barrie is, he's also just not fitting in well with what Bednar is trying to do. If we can find a good trade that makes sense for us, I would definitely be into moving Barrie.

And with Varlamov, it's hard to say. Still think Pickard will be a future starter in this league, but I also think it's becoming clear this year that he still fights some consistency issues and needs to sort through those yet before being thrust into a starters role. If we do move Varlamov, it needs to be an off-season trade where we can also go out and sign another good goalie to form a 1A/1B tandem with Picks for the next couple of years. Either that or we need to get a goalie who fits that decsription back in a Varly trade. Halak, Niemi, and Elliott are a couple guys who would fit that bill via trade.



The possibility of adding another Top 5 pick into this teams core is exciting, really makes the future incredibly bright looking when you have Rantanen, Jost, Zadorov, Greer, Compher, Bigras, and another Top ~5 pick added to that group, to go along with Mackinnon, Landeskog, EJ, that we already have.


But, if that scenario does play itself out, it's also another very long year for us fans likely with lots of arguing out of frustration to play out the rest of the year.

100% agree with this. If we continue down this road again, There better be a big shake up.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The reason why it needs to be either Duchene, Varly or Barrie for me is because this summer the first 2 will have two years to UFA and Barrie three. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they let it get to the following summer where both then become pending UFAs and I never felt like the Barrie thing was ever more than a medium term solution. I hate to see any of them traded (and I e never bought into the this core are just losers narrative) but they can't play the we'll see how it goes card. They have to seriously begin planning for the future and start making tough decisions.

Agreed. Absolutely cannot let those guys walk away without getting anything at all in return.


That said, I really dont think it would be difficult at all for us to re-sign Duchene and I wouldn't worry about that in the least. To me he's one of the very few guys in the league who actually cares pretty significantly about that childhood dream of playing for his favorite team and stuff. I genuinely believe he's exactly where he wants to be now and for the rest of his career, even through the rough patches that have happened. Every thing he's done throughout his career indicates this and nothing has ever indicated otherwise.


But, Barrie and Varlamov are absolutely different stories. Barrie especially I think would have to be overpaid by the Avs to stick around beyond this contract. And given that he's not really fitting into the new systems we're running I think it just makes almost too much sense for us to trade him this summer or whenever the right trade comes together. The Varlamov situation is a little tougher. Maybe you look at moving him before the expansion draft for a little less value, but that way you ensure hanging onto Pickard through the draft. Maybe we send Vegas a pick not to take Picks/Varly in expansion and then keep Varly for 1 more year, before trading him after that when the goalie market is inevitably much better to get value out of(Because remember at that point it's no longer 30 starting jobs but 31, so more teams looking for a starter in a years time most likely).



We'll see how the rest of the season goes I guess. If we're bottom 5 at years end, ya something needs to happen next summer. If the team turns it around again and we find ourselves in that similar 10-14 range then it's a tougher decision to make.

 

[Avs44]

The reason why it needs to be either Duchene, Varly or Barrie for me is because this summer the first 2 will have two years to UFA and Barrie three. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they let it get to the following summer where both then become pending UFAs and I never felt like the Barrie thing was ever more than a medium term solution. I hate to see any of them traded (and I e never bought into the this core are just losers narrative) but they can't play the we'll see how it goes card. They have to seriously begin planning for the future and start making tough decisions.

I'm getting more comfortable with trading Duchene. He's my favourite player, he's not the problem, and it would break my heart to see him go / be the victim of this teams issues, but I think they 1) need more of a gel guy, someone who is a playmaker and can find chemistry with others. Duchene has often had garbage linemates, but he hasn't found chemistry with even Landeskog, for example, and 2) they need someone who is more consistent in my opinion. I love the hell out of Duchene, but they need someone who wins board battles, works hard, and puts up a fight every game. They should be able to have that and keep Duchene, but moving guys like Duchene and Barrie might be the only way to fix some long term issues.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If this season is lost by February, the one thing I really, REALLY want to see happen before they make and bold or core changing trades, is play 10-15+ games with Landeskog, Duchene, Mackinnon, Rantanen, Greer, and Compher all playing Top 9 minutes. And 10-15+ games with Bigras playing Top 4 minutes along with Barrie, EJ, and Zads.



I at least want to see what our guys can do when the future core and the current core are all playing together and see what kind of game they can put together.


If it's still a struggle or still not going well fine. Make the big trade. But at least try it and give it a fair chance before pulling the trigger.

 

[tigervixxxen]

That said, I really dont think it would be difficult at all for us to re-sign Duchene and I wouldn't worry about that in the least. To me he's one of the very few guys in the league who actually cares pretty significantly about that childhood dream of playing for his favorite team and stuff. I genuinely believe he's exactly where he wants to be now and for the rest of his career, even through the rough patches that have happened. Every thing he's done throughout his career indicates this and nothing has ever indicated otherwise.

If they make the decision to sign him again I'm sure it's fine. But waiting until that last year and getting into the Stastny situation I'm not betting on that there isn't some point where he just says I've had enough. And regardless, it's not so much about the fear of him walking but moving a guy before his value starts to submarine as he inches closer to UFA. Because I do think the writing on the wall is becoming clearer that regardless if the core is the problem or not someone has to go in order to show they are doing something about their problems.

 

[dahrougem2]

I wish Vegas could take everyone from our roster not named Rantanen or MacKinnon, give us their top-3 pick and we just start a completely new team lol.

 

[JLo217]

I wish Vegas could take everyone from our roster not named Rantanen or MacKinnon, give us their top-3 pick and we just start a completely new team lol.

This. Maybe keeping Picks too.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If they make the decision to sign him again I'm sure it's fine. But waiting until that last year and getting into the Stastny situation I'm not betting on that there isn't some point where he just says I've had enough. And regardless, it's not so much about the fear of him walking but moving a guy before his value starts to submarine as he inches closer to UFA. Because I do think the writing on the wall is becoming clearer that regardless if the core is the problem or not someone has to go in order to show they are doing something about their problems.

Yep.

Pretty much agree with it all.


With Duchene, we either trade him this summer, or we start getting into talks about his new contract this summer as well or at the very latest early next season. And when July 1st 2018 comes we sign him right away at that 1 year mark before his contract expires.


And if we trade him this summer, fine. I dont like the idea and absolutely never will. And I'm sure if he is traded no matter what the deal is I wont like it at first. He's a guy who cares about this team and puts the effort in more then probably everyone else in the dressing room. But if the message has to be sent to the team and the fans that we're not happy with where the team is at, and Duchene is that message then so be it. But they had better be damn sure its a trade that will fix a big part of this teams issues(Whatever those issues are).

 

[JoemAvs]

That would require our GM to be proactive.

And Sakic and this group have shown that they are exactly NOT that unfortunately.
We almost always only react to things when they happen.

See: Stastny, ROR, Barrie, etc.


We have not had a coherent plan for the future for quite some time now.

We don't have a plan at all to be honest. One time we are a rebuilding team that is buying heavily at the deadline.
We love to sign win-now vets but we also have traded one of our best players for futures the year before.
We also just had our coach quit because management and him disagreed on philosophy and Roy clearly wanted to win now at all cost.

We are kings of the mixed message. That might explain our at best mixed results.

What we do at the deadline will again depend on how many points we are out and on under how much pressure Sakic is and not on what our plan for this team was before the season.

So yeah. Unless Duchene is the guy on the wrong end of a panic shake up deal, I fully expect this to drag on for a long time.
The only saving grace there could be Duchenes loyalty to the Avs but I am not sure how that was affected by all those trade rumors and other things that have happened over the years. I honestly could not blame him if he just wanted to get paid like everyone else.

 

[AslanRH]

I feel Picks consistency issues are expected, but also think if he continues to get regular starts (say 20+ more for the year) he would benefit more next year from just having a Giggy type behind him. Not truly a 1B who he is competing with, but a guy who can mentor him on what it takes day in and day out to be a full time #1.

 

[Murzu]

If the team continues tracking in the direction it is, I think we may see a trade this summer or perhaps even before that.


Rantanen and Mackinnon should absolutely be non starters under any circumstances. After that, I dont think they should trade EJ or Landeskog. Both are guys who give it an honest 100% effort pretty much every night, and are still very good effective players and on solid/great contracts.


That leaves us with Barrie, Duchene, and Varlamov as the "core" guys who could be on the table. Personally, I really dont think Duchene has been a problem and I think he's someone we should be keeping around. So for me that would leave Barrie and Varlamov. I think its becoming more and more clear that while we all know the tremendous talent Barrie is, he's also just not fitting in well with what Bednar is trying to do. If we can find a good trade that makes sense for us, I would definitely be into moving Barrie.

And with Varlamov, it's hard to say. Still think Pickard will be a future starter in this league, but I also think it's becoming clear this year that he still fights some consistency issues and needs to sort through those yet before being thrust into a starters role. If we do move Varlamov, it needs to be an off-season trade where we can also go out and sign another good goalie to form a 1A/1B tandem with Picks for the next couple of years. Either that or we need to get a goalie who fits that decsription back in a Varly trade. Halak, Niemi, and Elliott are a couple guys who would fit that bill via trade.


The possibility of adding another Top 5 pick into this teams core is exciting, really makes the future incredibly bright looking when you have Rantanen, Jost, Zadorov, Greer, Compher, Bigras, and another Top ~5 pick added to that group, to go along with Mackinnon, Landeskog, EJ, that we already have.


But, if that scenario does play itself out, it's also another very long year for us fans likely with lots of arguing out of frustration to play out the rest of the year.

Amen. This post summarizes my thoughts pretty much 100%.

 

[Murzu]

That would require our GM to be proactive.

And Sakic and this group have shown that they are exactly NOT that unfortunately.
We almost always only react to things when they happen.

See: Stastny, ROR, Barrie, etc.

Signing Stuart and Berra were pretty proactive moves

I don't really want to go there, but Stastny and ROR did not want to stay (I don't know/don't remember if there were any real talks with Stastny before his contract season) and Barrie was an Newport RFA.

I still like Sakic as a GM. I just wish he will sell or at least tries to sell Mitchell, Iginla, Mcleod, Colborne, Bourque, Beauchemin and Tyutin at TDL.

 

[Nalens Oga]

EJ is the better player no doubt but he's not exactly young and might start really declining by the time guys like Jost and our next high pick from this draft probably are in their 2nd or 3rd year.

I dunno I'd trade him and Barrie both tbh plus one of the goalie and get some draft picks and prospects going into this next draft. Even if we retain EJ, the guy has shown too much inconsistency to be the guy we want on our top pair. He's a #1 on some nights and a #4 on others.

 

[henchman21]

EJ is a #2... he is a bit out of place as a #1 and that is why you see the inconsistency. The problem is, Barrie is the best defender after EJ and Barrie has been a disaster defensively so he can't be trusted up. Tyutin has done an admirable job, but EJ won't look great until he has a 2 or a 3 next to him... EJ might be over the hill by the time that happens.

 

[Avs71]

The Avs have, and will, waste EJ's entire career.

Since they got him at what, 23 years old? O'Brien, Hunwick, Zanon, Hejda, Beauchemin, and Tyutin.

What a terrible list of partners for a supposed franchise defenceman.