Ratboy
I made a funny!
- Jul 15, 2009
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saying it's bipolar makes it sound like people switch back and forth between thinking he's a good coach and a bad one. that's not the case. I can't remember the last time I was impressed with his coaching ability. he's been pretty consistently underwhelming, and it's making people take greater notice of it the longer it goes
can't believe 2 first round exits isn't enough success for us fans. We should all lower our expectations so we can be happy with a good first 9 games to this seasonWe're coming off a franchise best season, and currently playing at a 109-point pace.
I was wondering how long it was going to take for fans to turn on Babcock. Just proving that no coach will ever be safe in this city.
I will ask this once, this question usually stumps the person when asked ...
How was babcock out coached?
I’ll bite. In the last two games the opponent coaches have figured out a way to stop the Leaf’s system of stretch passes by clogging up the neutral zone and taking time and space away from Leaf players. They’ve watched video and out coached him. What adjustments has Babcock made to his system? I haven’t seen any. How do Kadri and Connor frikken Brown have a greater TOI than Tavares? His team is lacking intensity, and although some of that is on the players, it’s the coach’s job to get them ready to play. He’s overrated as a coach.
Good lord people. It's one thing to question certain decisions by a coach because you think he made a mistake, but this whole Babcock cant coach, he is out of touch by a decade bullcrap is frickin terrible. And these lightweight "explanations" as to how we are being out coached are absolutely hilarious.
Do you guys want to know WHY Babock has post game responses like the one he had tonight. Because he is basically saying what he cant totally say without calling his team out. They are being OUTWORKED right now. They had it easy early on free wheeling around, scoring at will and playing no defense whatsoever. Now the league is tightening up and things actually require effort and skill combined to get things done.
I have a fair question to those complaining about his "system". Do you seriously believe that he created some unknown, sneaky, impossible to break puzzle of a system that the rest of the league has finally figured out and that is all he knows so he sits dumbfounded on the bench?? Do you know how stupid that makes you look. Coaches play towards favoured styles and try to support the various skills of their players within those styles. It is up to the players to work hard and execute properly. This is why lower skilled teams can find success buying into system and outworking their opponents.
Babcock has been employing different styles to great success here. People arent just now figuring out his ultra-secret formula of stretch passes and breakouts. The players arent executing it properly and are barely moving their feet. The Leafs are being beaten to pucks in all areas of the ice constantly and that is nothing to do with the coach. Like he said, it came easy early on and now that its not they are a step behind.
You do realize this Leafs team has one of the youngest core groups in the league, are sitting third in the east and broke a franchise record for points last season. They have played back to back playoffs with these young guys and pushed the 2017 Cup favorites (2018 winner) to 5 overtime games and all 6 within 1 goal. The following year pushed the heavily favoured Bruins team to 7 games. Coming back from 2-0 and 3-1 deficits while its two star players decided not to show up. They deserved to win the series in fact if it hadnt been for the most spectacular defensive meltdown by one player I have ever witnessed in hockey.
He arrived to coach the worst Leaf Team that has ever existed I believe and since that first year with the proper rebuild starting has posted and 89-53-22 record. In those 2 years and this year Toronto has the second most Goals for of any team, 15 least goals against, the best PP and the 7th best PK, and have given up the 12 least high danger scoring chances against. This with what most on these boards consider to be a totally lacking defensive unit and a hot and cold goalie.
So, tell me again why Babcock sucks and what super secret system you all would employ to make your damn players want to put in some effort.
They were. Then they got to experience other coaches, and now their tune has changed. Chances are the same would happen here if we, for example, fired him today.Detroit fans couldn't be happier when he left and i'm beginning to see why.
They were. Then they got to experience other coaches, and now their tune has changed. Chances are the same would happen here if we, for example, fired him today.
I'm not the fan that I once was though. While I still appreciate him as a person and leader, he leaves me wanting tactically. A large part of that is that Babcock is reverting more and more towards the opposite end of my preference from an ideological standpoint. And that bothers me because every tendency in that direction seem to cost us on the ice. We've played our best hockey when we play to our strengths, and we look lost when we try to reign those in so that we can cover our weaknesses.
I dislike that part of his coaching. The part that makes him neuter the offensive creativity of the third line with Lindholm and Brown so that Kadri as a two-way threat disappears, only because he doesn't quite like the risks involved with some of the better talents.
I dislike how he pursues line matching even when we should win every such battle by sheer quality depth. Disrupting rhythm just to make sure one of Matthews, Tavares, or Kadri isn't matched up wrong seem counter-intuitive to me. Those matchups should be what the opposing team worries about.
Breakouts are another thing that confounds me. The quick break is good because it allows you to create a rush game by puck movement, which can be very valuable if you have a slow team. If you have a slow team. We're fast, we're hyper skilled, we can dance through opposition. But we don't, because we take high risk stretch passes to bypass areas of strength. It's insane.
When Babcock was brought on board, he was a big proponent of the center outlet, he wanted us to make skilled plays to beat pressure. He wanted us to carry, and to use unrelenting pressure and pinching. But we're doing less and less of that for each season that goes by, which I assume is because Babs worry over the weaknesses it presents. But the shift sure seem to hurt our strengths more than it helps cover our weaknesses.
Then you have the OT usage, and the special teams distribution. Neither of which I have been a fan of. Actually, the whole personnel usage seem questionable. A lot of players get leaned on because they are consistent in what they offer, even if they don't offer very much. But guys who have tons to offer can see minutes disappear as soon as they have a shaky period. Another thing that seems counter-intuitive to me. If the game is deadlocked and you need to break it open, sending Brown out there over and over just means you get the same kind of shifts over and over. The potential for change is larger with someone who has much more to get out of their game. Give me a struggling Kapanen over Brown, because he actually has the ability to break open structure and do something in a bogged down game.
Personnel choices has grown into an area of contention for me. I value a lot of what Babcock values, I believe in the same kind of roster structure, with a vertical top six, managed ice time, and utilizing depth. However, Babcock really seem to fall into the same trap of somehow preferring a player who consistently works hard to produce mediocre results over someone who achieves good results mainly through his skill. Brown and Leivo, respectively.
Now, I'm sure people will have objections. I have taken into account how we played to begin the season. I can address that, but the post is long enough so ask for it in that case.
With all this said, I do think people are (as usual) a bit over the top with the criticism. He isn't a moron. He isn't ruining our team. Saying things like that just shows you are emotionally invested in your stance enough to turn things personal. And you can't in one post give him no credit for the Detroit teams because those were stacked, and then give him all the blame for things wrong now. Coaches can assert influence over any roster, but the roster is still the backbone.
I would also empathize what I said to begin with. A lot of this is based on ideology. I dislike how he priorities weaknesses over strengths. I find it quite hilarious that he did that even on the most stacked team in many years, the Canadian Olympics team. However, it's also not lost on me that he created an absolute juggernaut with that team. Just because I don't like how he does things doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong.
I have tried to take stock of his coaching in pretty much every area I can think of, much more than just the little I wrote about above, and I don't see coaching that deserves to be called some of the best there is. He's a good coach. But it's also possible that he is the wrong coach for us.
That brings us to the final point though. What else is out there? Looking through the options, I don't see a name that we would view differently. Bruce Boudreau would be perfect for us. Quenneville would be nice to, if only for one of his greatest qualities. He likes to just step out of the way of his best players, and let them do their thing. But those guys are not available. What is available is a heap of mediocrity, with a few promising names like Keefe. However, that's far from a certain thing.
So we're stuck with Babcock for now. For good and bad.
Lol what?I doubt this. I think Matthews will be shipped out first before Babcock gets fired. Hoping it does not come down to that.
He never has his players back. Crosby in town and he couldn't contain himself talking about how great he is. He never talks up his own players. Keeps saying they need to learn to be pros. Guess what babs that's on you
i think he's fine...but i wonder if he simply "over-coaches" at times and gets in his own (and best players) way
Which one of our stars are you proposing for our Leafs to send to the Wings?I’m losing some faith but I am not sure how much can be put on him. We don’t have enough talent on the wings.
Brown and friggin Leivo have 2:30 PP minutes, Kappanen has none, who is a better player
The importance of a coach is one of the biggest myths in the game.
They are a piece of a winning puzzle no doubt but not an overly critical one.
Last night Babcock didn’t make the PP go 0-4.
He didn’dt say let’s get outhit 33-22 and you Kadri, I don’t want you to throw a single hit in 2 games.
He didn’t draw up the plan for Dermott to be on for 3 goals.
Or say to Tavares, hey John, limit yourself to 1 shot on goal please. Give the others a chance.
Or say to Freddie, let’s save one of those shutout games for another time.
What happens on the ice is largely up to the guys actually on the ice.