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LeafsHome

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Pretty much with you 100%
I wont call him overated yet. But his lack of an adjustment is concerning. His usage of systems at times is questionable.

Basically it seems teams have figured out our predictable passing lanes. The last 2 games i noticed :

Marner and Tavares have been neutered offensively both these games because the opposing D collapses on them while playing zone and anticipating leafs only 2 plays :
On the wall Marner>JT beside the net. or
JT crashing the net looking for Marners stick. Unfortunately Marner is easy to box out, and 1-3 opposing D now just collapse on JT, and play goalie. ( Credit to JT )
3rd play last option :
Marner and JT pass to the D along the blue line. its brought in with the same mindset, a one pass to Marner or JT or just shoot it from afar. Unfortunately our D isn't that accurate.

Onto Matthews line.

Matthews in the left corner is now being TRAPPED. Making him do quick pressure passes to Marleau and Kap, or shoot through major traffic.
Marleau is invisible, and Kap gets tight coverage. Kap is good, but still honing his skill on the first line no doubt.
If that fails, Matthews gives it to a D. Who either shoots it in, and tries to only give it to...you guessed it! Matthews/Kap who is covered TIGHT.

Basically
Our playbook is a quick stretch pass to a forward. That forward will skate as quickly as possible up the boards, chip it in, or look for the usual predictable passing Partner who is also crashing the net full speed. Once this play is Broken. There is no other play. None. None other than give it to a D and have them go along the blue line, and pass it to either JT/Marner .. AM/Kap or SHOOT.
We look lost and confused when not doing this one play. its scary.
There is no cycling, no D to F to F to D to F, behind the net, set a pick or give and go, causing confusion

We have been figured out, like the fighter who can only throw a big right hand.

With our skating ability and talent, we can clearly bring up the puck with some puck support and carry - a theme that has been brought up over and over and over and over on this forum.
Its Coaching/Systems not using this lineup to the fullest.

Same dead horse beat if we do same thing next game. All eyes on coaching next few games.

Pretty much with you 100%
I wont call him overated yet. But his lack of an adjustment is concerning. His usage of systems at times is questionable.

Basically it seems teams have figured out our predictable passing lanes. The last 2 games i noticed :

Marner and Tavares have been neutered offensively both these games because the opposing D collapses on them while playing zone and anticipating leafs only 2 plays :
On the wall Marner>JT beside the net. or
JT crashing the net looking for Marners stick. Unfortunately Marner is easy to box out, and 1-3 opposing D now just collapse on JT, and play goalie. ( Credit to JT )
3rd play last option :
Marner and JT pass to the D along the blue line. its brought in with the same mindset, a one pass to Marner or JT or just shoot it from afar. Unfortunately our D isn't that accurate.

Onto Matthews line.

Matthews in the left corner is now being TRAPPED. Making him do quick pressure passes to Marleau and Kap, or shoot through major traffic.
Marleau is invisible, and Kap gets tight coverage. Kap is good, but still honing his skill on the first line no doubt.
If that fails, Matthews gives it to a D. Who either shoots it in, and tries to only give it to...you guessed it! Matthews/Kap who is covered TIGHT.

Basically
Our playbook is a quick stretch pass to a forward. That forward will skate as quickly as possible up the boards, chip it in, or look for the usual predictable passing Partner who is also crashing the net full speed. Once this play is Broken. There is no other play. None. None other than give it to a D and have them go along the blue line, and pass it to either JT/Marner .. AM/Kap or SHOOT.
We look lost and confused when not doing this one play. its scary.
There is no cycling, no D to F to F to D to F, behind the net, set a pick or give and go, causing confusion

We have been figured out, like the fighter who can only throw a big right hand.

With our skating ability and talent, we can clearly bring up the puck with some puck support and carry - a theme that has been brought up over and over and over and over on this forum.
Its Coaching/Systems not using this lineup to the fullest.

Same dead horse beat if we do same thing next game. All eyes on coaching next few games.
The absence of Nylander, the best transition player on the team and one of the best in the league is showing
 
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Nineteen67

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Good lord people. It's one thing to question certain decisions by a coach because you think he made a mistake, but this whole Babcock cant coach, he is out of touch by a decade bullcrap is frickin terrible. And these lightweight "explanations" as to how we are being out coached are absolutely hilarious.

Do you guys want to know WHY Babock has post game responses like the one he had tonight. Because he is basically saying what he cant totally say without calling his team out. They are being OUTWORKED right now. They had it easy early on free wheeling around, scoring at will and playing no defense whatsoever. Now the league is tightening up and things actually require effort and skill combined to get things done.


I have a fair question to those complaining about his "system". Do you seriously believe that he created some unknown, sneaky, impossible to break puzzle of a system that the rest of the league has finally figured out and that is all he knows so he sits dumbfounded on the bench?? Do you know how stupid that makes you look. Coaches play towards favoured styles and try to support the various skills of their players within those styles. It is up to the players to work hard and execute properly. This is why lower skilled teams can find success buying into system and outworking their opponents.

Babcock has been employing different styles to great success here. People arent just now figuring out his ultra-secret formula of stretch passes and breakouts. The players arent executing it properly and are barely moving their feet. The Leafs are being beaten to pucks in all areas of the ice constantly and that is nothing to do with the coach. Like he said, it came easy early on and now that its not they are a step behind.

You do realize this Leafs team has one of the youngest core groups in the league, are sitting third in the east and broke a franchise record for points last season. They have played back to back playoffs with these young guys and pushed the 2017 Cup favorites (2018 winner) to 5 overtime games and all 6 within 1 goal. The following year pushed the heavily favoured Bruins team to 7 games. Coming back from 2-0 and 3-1 deficits while its two star players decided not to show up. They deserved to win the series in fact if it hadnt been for the most spectacular defensive meltdown by one player I have ever witnessed in hockey.

He arrived to coach the worst Leaf Team that has ever existed I believe and since that first year with the proper rebuild starting has posted and 89-53-22 record. In those 2 years and this year Toronto has the second most Goals for of any team, 15 least goals against, the best PP and the 7th best PK, and have given up the 12 least high danger scoring chances against. This with what most on these boards consider to be a totally lacking defensive unit and a hot and cold goalie.



So, tell me again why Babcock sucks and what super secret system you all would employ to make your damn players want to put in some effort.

For starters, Far too often the Leaf wingers are not in the D zone or in proper position when the D is being forechecked by two opposition players. This has happened over and over and burns far too much energy.
 
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PromisedLand

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If that happened, yes he is.

Don't be fooled. If he can't get along with Auston, he will be gone. Obviously, we are a long way from it coming to that, but don't kid yourself, if the team tanked, if Auston was so pissed at Babcock that he didn't want to play in Toronto anymore, Babcock would be gone.

How do you think Auston feels about last night and his TOI?
 

Anthrax442

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Babcock is the best coach in the nhl possibly of all time


59zioay.gif
 
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KapG

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he has to quit pouting ,if he needs willie he don't get McDavid money
What does Nylander being on his line or not have to do with Matthews not getting superstar TOI. There’s really no reason to not have him play 20-21 minutes a night....
 

horner

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The absence of Nylander, the best transition player on the team and one of the best in the league is showing
I don't think that is going to change Babs coaching desisions
Brown and Kadri will still get 18 minutes matching against there top lines.

As one poster said we are playing not to lose.

We need to be having other teams worry about us.

Otherwise

Why should we be paying 4 players half our cap.

We might as well get a bunch of average players and just shut down other team.

Babcock is taking our best asset out of the game offense and speed.
 
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Liminality

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I don't think that is going to change Babs coaching desisions
Brown and Kadri will still get 18 minutes matching against there top lines.

As one poster said we are playing not to lose.

We need to be having other teams worry about us.

Otherwise

Why should we be paying 4 players half our cap.

We might as well get a bunch of average players and just shut down other team.

Babcock is taking our best asset out of the game offense and speed.
Brown is averaging 14:51 ice time per game...
 
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White Shadow

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For starters, Far too often the Leaf wingers are not in the D zone or in proper position when the D is being forechecked by two opposition players. This has happened over and over and burns far too much energy.
That is on the players. Do you even know the system?

The only player that is supposed to fly the zone is the weak side winger (and that is only sometimes). If the near side winger or the center are too far away from the defense that is 100% on the player.
 

White Shadow

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What does Nylander being on his line or not have to do with Matthews not getting superstar TOI. There’s really no reason to not have him play 20-21 minutes a night....
You mean besides the sports science and performance division?
 

Cor

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They were. Then they got to experience other coaches, and now their tune has changed. Chances are the same would happen here if we, for example, fired him today.

I'm not the fan that I once was though. While I still appreciate him as a person and leader, he leaves me wanting tactically. A large part of that is that Babcock is reverting more and more towards the opposite end of my preference from an ideological standpoint. And that bothers me because every tendency in that direction seem to cost us on the ice. We've played our best hockey when we play to our strengths, and we look lost when we try to reign those in so that we can cover our weaknesses.

I dislike that part of his coaching. The part that makes him neuter the offensive creativity of the third line with Lindholm and Brown so that Kadri as a two-way threat disappears, only because he doesn't quite like the risks involved with some of the better talents.

I dislike how he pursues line matching even when we should win every such battle by sheer quality depth. Disrupting rhythm just to make sure one of Matthews, Tavares, or Kadri isn't matched up wrong seem counter-intuitive to me. Those matchups should be what the opposing team worries about.

Breakouts are another thing that confounds me. The quick break is good because it allows you to create a rush game by puck movement, which can be very valuable if you have a slow team. If you have a slow team. We're fast, we're hyper skilled, we can dance through opposition. But we don't, because we take high risk stretch passes to bypass areas of strength. It's insane.

When Babcock was brought on board, he was a big proponent of the center outlet, he wanted us to make skilled plays to beat pressure. He wanted us to carry, and to use unrelenting pressure and pinching. But we're doing less and less of that for each season that goes by, which I assume is because Babs worry over the weaknesses it presents. But the shift sure seem to hurt our strengths more than it helps cover our weaknesses.

Then you have the OT usage, and the special teams distribution. Neither of which I have been a fan of. Actually, the whole personnel usage seem questionable. A lot of players get leaned on because they are consistent in what they offer, even if they don't offer very much. But guys who have tons to offer can see minutes disappear as soon as they have a shaky period. Another thing that seems counter-intuitive to me. If the game is deadlocked and you need to break it open, sending Brown out there over and over just means you get the same kind of shifts over and over. The potential for change is larger with someone who has much more to get out of their game. Give me a struggling Kapanen over Brown, because he actually has the ability to break open structure and do something in a bogged down game.

Personnel choices has grown into an area of contention for me. I value a lot of what Babcock values, I believe in the same kind of roster structure, with a vertical top six, managed ice time, and utilizing depth. However, Babcock really seem to fall into the same trap of somehow preferring a player who consistently works hard to produce mediocre results over someone who achieves good results mainly through his skill. Brown and Leivo, respectively.

Now, I'm sure people will have objections. I have taken into account how we played to begin the season. I can address that, but the post is long enough so ask for it in that case.

With all this said, I do think people are (as usual) a bit over the top with the criticism. He isn't a moron. He isn't ruining our team. Saying things like that just shows you are emotionally invested in your stance enough to turn things personal. And you can't in one post give him no credit for the Detroit teams because those were stacked, and then give him all the blame for things wrong now. Coaches can assert influence over any roster, but the roster is still the backbone.

I would also empathize what I said to begin with. A lot of this is based on ideology. I dislike how he priorities weaknesses over strengths. I find it quite hilarious that he did that even on the most stacked team in many years, the Canadian Olympics team. However, it's also not lost on me that he created an absolute juggernaut with that team. Just because I don't like how he does things doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong.

I have tried to take stock of his coaching in pretty much every area I can think of, much more than just the little I wrote about above, and I don't see coaching that deserves to be called some of the best there is. He's a good coach. But it's also possible that he is the wrong coach for us.

That brings us to the final point though. What else is out there? Looking through the options, I don't see a name that we would view differently. Bruce Boudreau would be perfect for us. Quenneville would be nice to, if only for one of his greatest qualities. He likes to just step out of the way of his best players, and let them do their thing. But those guys are not available. What is available is a heap of mediocrity, with a few promising names like Keefe. However, that's far from a certain thing.

So we're stuck with Babcock for now. For good and bad.

This is the type of post that needs to happen from more people.

Well thought out. Calm. No childish nicknames. Despite the criticism's, also points out some positives.

I tip my cap
 

socko

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Kapanen with under 14 minutes yesterday. Kapanen was the best forward on the team yesterday. Disgusting. Hate Babcock.
 

BertCorbeau

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This is the type of post that needs to happen from more people.

Well thought out. Calm. No childish nicknames. Despite the criticism's, also points out some positives.

I tip my cap

The only thing I disagree with @Nithoniniel is the line matching so far this season. Babs' hasn't actively been pursuing line matching so far this season. He's rolling them more often then not.
 
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diceman934

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The line matching during the Boston series was a complete failure. Again, trying to play not to lose.
I see that too often
You mean the series where we were leading going into the 3rd period of game 7 and had one bad period, that series?
Please we had the most points ever as a team and pushed a better team to 7 games. And people think he got out coached. Absured.
 
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Cor

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The only thing I disagree with @Nithoniniel is the line matching so far this season. Babs' hasn't actively been pursuing line matching so far this season. He's rolling them more often then not.

I don't necessarily agree with everything @Nithoniniel wrote either, but it was just well thought out and well put together.

I take a post like that 1000/1000 rather than posters who just put "lol egocock!" or some similar crap.
 

ShaneFalco

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You mean the series where we were leading going into the 3rd period of game 7 and had one bad period, that series?
Please we had the most points ever as a team and pushed a better team to 7 games. And people think he got out coached. Absured.

What are we the old Ottawa Sens where only regular season matters
They lost the series and Babcock match ups failed miserably. Played right into their hands
 

johnny_rudeboy

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Lets also keep in mind that Babcock is trying to win games but also develop players at the same time. So if he feels his star players are not working hard enough he will give his hard working players more ice time. Not because he is convinced they will win the game but that it will send signals to the more skilled players they need to up their work rate so they can win the games in the future.

At least that is what I hope is going on dince that at least makes sense to me and looks like a plan.
 
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