Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXV

[Robert Theodorson]

campbell has one of the worst contracts in the NHL

He's a legit #1 guy who is fast, good at both ends of the ice, and eats minutes.

We are shallow on defense, very shallow after Green/Alzner/Carlson

 

[Carlzner]

He's a legit #1 guy who is fast, good at both ends of the ice, and eats minutes.

We are shallow on defense, very shallow after Green/Alzner/Carlson

So we should be looking for a #3/#4 defenseman with a #3/#4 defenseman contract, not a #1 defenseman with a #1 defenseman contract.

 

[artilector]

Bottom line on Green -- his playoff production has not been worth 6m. He has provided average D at best, and offensively he was MIA probably 50% of the series, or more.

Like BCF pointed out, it's similar to Semin. A 6-7m player who gets paid for offensive prowess can't go invisible offensively in a playoff series half of the time. (And it's a separate discussion of how Ovi's playoff production has been evolving, btw). That's why with Semin, I hated to see him go, but I could accept the logic (of course, getting nothing for him and spending most of his cap space on Laich was idiotic).

With Green (and unfortunately Ovi to an alarming extent as well) the problem is dependence on the PP to get their points. There's far less PP opportunities and teams dig down even deeper on the PK in playoffs. So our PP stars get paid in great part for a regular season prowess that doesn't translate well into playoffs.

The supposed saving grace for Green was always his role in the "transition game". But I don't buy it either, because other teams don't seem to need a guy who can skate like Green to get the puck out of the zone -- it's a systemic thing.

Ideally, I'd want the Caps to convert Green + say Erskine + assets/picks into a couple of steady 2nd pairing guys, make Carlzner officially top pair, and roll with it. However... D are very hard to find, such deals are rare... if Green can stay healthy and Caps can find him a partner such that they won't be a deal-breaking defensive liability, it's not too bad. Better to overpay for a second-pairing D-man with proven PP QB skills and some game-breaking potential by 1-1.5 mil than to overpay a certain 3rd line grinder by 2 mil, or something laich that.

 

[Robert Theodorson]

So we should be looking for a #3/#4 defenseman with a #3/#4 defenseman contract, not a #1 defenseman with a #1 defenseman contract.

Oh course, because the Blackhawks, Kings, Bruins, Red Wings, Penguins, and Ducks have all recently won cups without a legit #1 defenseman.

More of the status quo thinking that plunges this organization into complete satisfaction with just making the playoffs, where the Eastern Conference finals is a thing of myths and fairy tales.

Let's not acquire great players who can push their team to the next level, let's get mediocre redundant guys who will ensure we bow out in the 1st round.

 

[artilector]

So we should be looking for a #3/#4 defenseman with a #3/#4 defenseman contract, not a #1 defenseman with a #1 defenseman contract.

Exactly. Plus, we have exactly one guy on D that is really solid in his own end -- Alzner. It's not enough, we need another strong defensive guy. Caps hoped it could be Erskine, maybe Urbom is the future hope, but right now, that's what we need.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

taking on a cap hit of $7,142,875 is just not possible unless we trade both Brooks and Ward.

edit - maybe something like brooks, noovy, and another contract.

 

[artilector]

huh...I figured most Caps fans would view Laich as a salary dump and would be glad to get him off the books?

I figured if anything that may decrease Laich's value and increase Orpik's since he will be a UFA?

Orpik's play has dropped off the last couple years but he still has some gas left. Laich definitely does but were gonna have to make room for Kuznetsov at some point too.

Either way I'm not even sure I'd do it. Its just an interesting idea

I like Orpik's game, though I may have selective memory, remembering good plays he made, while not seeing maybe him losing positional/footspeed battles, which I think Pens fans have talked about.

So if he fits the mental image I have of him, it would be a great trade.. short-term. Because 33 yr old guy that's about to be a UFA, that screams rental. I guess that risk would be ok in light of shedding Laich's contract, although I still have hopes that some GM can be suckered into giving more for Laich, maybe a reverse Erat trade.

 

[Mothra]

You can make a case for the offense but not his D. He has really focused on it and gotten better (you can even say overcompensated at first) since the Yzerman snub.

Didn't he score like 11 goals in his final 18 games last year?? Thats a pretty insane rate of scoring don't you think?

I honestly dont know what you are watching.....watch him in the corners and along the boards in his end.....tell me that is anywhere near good. He doesnt make the contested plays in those situations consistently..

This, IMO, is where a dman shows his worth defensively.....everyone gets walked around now and then...or backs off the rush too much here and there.....but plays in your end along the board, they have to be made more than they are not.....watch him

I ask you....what part of his defensive game is good and/or gotten better? He doesnt get walked around as often but thats in part due to him backing up more, which isnt always good.

 

[Mothra]

Its hard being a top pairing dman when you are injured. Thats really the only concern I had and it seems he is beyond the injury that hampered him now.

You could have said similar things about Ovie at this point last year too btw

You see....one of the obvious differences between how we view 52 is this. You make out his unreliable history due to injuries as a positive thing somehow. Him being injured a lot....thats not a good thing. Its absolutely one of the reasons I would move on from him. not only does he get hurt all the time.....he doesnt seem to be effective when banged up.

He missed what, ~25% of a shortened season last year.....and just because he hasnt separated his shoulder, or whatever, 15 games into this season you expect 80 game seasons from him from now on?

Maybe so...who knows but I'd be really surprised if he averages 70 games per season over the next 4

 

[Carlzner]

Oh course, because the Blackhawks, Kings, Bruins, Red Wings, Penguins, and Ducks have all recently won cups without a legit #1 defenseman.

More of the status quo thinking that plunges this organization into complete satisfaction with just making the playoffs, where the Eastern Conference finals is a thing of myths and fairy tales.

Let's not acquire great players who can push their team to the next level, let's get mediocre redundant guys who will ensure we bow out in the 1st round.

I see Green, Alzner, and Carlson as all being 1st pair quality defenseman. We don't need a #1 dman on a #1 dman salary, especially not an offensively oriented one such as Campbell.

 

[Mothra]

The supposed saving grace for Green was always his role in the "transition game". But I don't buy it either, because other teams don't seem to need a guy who can skate like Green to get the puck out of the zone -- it's a systemic thing.

52 is at his best in space and with time.....skating the puck up ice, generally uncontested, makes him look very good. This is exactly why he is less effective in the playoffs.....You just dont get free/open space that often and 52's impact to the game is minimized

 

[SimplySensational]

Smid for Horak and Brossoit... WTF?

 

[Darkproducer]

if that is the actual trade with nothing else going on....cant believe we couldnt have land Smid. damn.

 

[SimplySensational]

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Oilers-Bryzgalov discussions escalating. Edmonton had to move Smid money to make room for goalie.

hahaha they did it to make room for Bryz..... omg

Wait... they are 5m from the cap, a team in Canada can't spend to the cap?

 

[Carlzner]

What the ****

 

[SimplySensational]

Maybe its actually Campbell.

 

[SimplySensational]

Nope its Bryzgalov. HHAHAHAHHAHHAHA

 

[Langway]

if that is the actual trade with nothing else going on....cant believe we couldnt have land Smid. damn.

Not experienced enough to be worth it IMO, even if it's a stylistic fit. Zero career playoff games.

 

[SimplySensational]

Hemsky's locker packed up too.

 

[SimplySensational]

Laich for Forsberg, get it done GMGM.

 

[Chokingdogs]

Not experienced enough to be worth it IMO, even if it's a stylistic fit. Zero career playoff games.

if the caps make the playoffs, as currently constructed, they'd have two D men with zero career playoff games and maybe 150 combined regular season games.

smid, with zero playoff games, has 400+ nhl games under his belt.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

Smid is the perfect defenseman for this team. I just assumed he'd never get traded. Jesus.

 

[Langway]

if the caps make the playoffs, as currently constructed, they'd have two D men with zero career playoff games and maybe 150 combined regular season games.

smid, with zero playoff games, has 400+ nhl games under his belt.

It would be an improvement on paper, yeah, but on a fundamental level I don't think it would change much (esp. depending on what would be subtracted in the process). I'm not sure the D ever truly gets right with Green a large part of it so maybe it doesn't even matter in the short-term what they do to as far as his partner goes.

I'd just run with the youth and let them get experience on the cheap. A guy like Smid likely helps but at $3.5M for another three years I don't think it really improves them all that much. (That goes for most pure stay-at-home types that wouldn't offer transition help or take on a heavy leadership role.)

 

[Hivemind]

Smid is the perfect defenseman for this team. I just assumed he'd never get traded. Jesus.

That was how I felt about Andrej Sekera.

 

[Chokingdogs]

i didnt realize he was pulling down that much in salary....for that long.

brooks and erat better start producing to their contracts....lol

speaking of brooks, if he does get traded, will the person posting the initial thread title it brooks and dunn???