2020 Offseason Thread Part III

[CutOnDime97]

So someone has to ask it. Would you sign Ryan 1yr 1m?

Sure why not

 

[CutOnDime97]

As I mentioned recently

Panarin, Zibanejad, Stone, Ryan O'Reilly, Wheeler?

 

[Striiker]

Panarin, Zibanejad, Stone, Ryan O'Reilly, Wheeler?

There will always be exceptions to any rule, for various abnormal reasons, but what I said holds up the vast majority of the time.

 

[deadhead]

And each of those teams have an ELITE player or two on their roster!

No, they don't, unless elite includes Couts and maybe some other Flyers down the road.
Carter wasn't elite, Schwartz, Tarasenko, etc.

Elite is elite, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane to a lesser extent, Toews really isn't better than Couts, Marchand?
Basically, to me "elite" means HOF caliber.
Ehlers and Laine are not elite players, and it's doubtful they ever will be.

Flyers may not have any HOF locks, but they have plenty of legitimate top six players and top four defensemen.
Frost, Lindblom, Farabee, TK is a nice foursome, with Brink on the way. And Couts and Hayes are only 28.
Giroux and Voracek may be complementary players at this point in their careers, but that's still nice to have in your top 9.
JVR, Laughton, we'll see what we have in Laczynski, Allison and Cates the next couple years

York should fill out a top four on defense in a year or two. Meanwhile Niskanen can hold the fort one more season.

And we have a franchise goalie, that makes up for a multitude of sins.

 

[rinaldo]

Ghost arguably the best PP QB in the league. Then he should have excellent trade value. People really believe this?

 

[kudymen]

Straaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw

 

[deadhead]

Panarin, Zibanejad, Stone, Ryan O'Reilly, Wheeler?

Panarin didn't break out in the KHL until he was 22, came over to the NHL at 24. Only one of this group that could be considered to be elite.

Zibanejad was 3rd line caliber until he was 25, and his defense went to hell after AV left NY.
Stone was a 6th rd pick who broke out at 22, but didn't reach his peak until he was 26
ROR had one excellent season at 27, otherwise a basic 2C scoring 40-45 ES points in his best years
Wheeler was solid but not special, broke out at 25, started slipping at 32.

These four aren't fundamentally different from what the Flyers have, guys who can play in the middle six in their early 20s, then broke out to the next level around 25-27. We saw that with Couts, we'll see with some other players.

 

[DancingPanther]

No, they don't, unless elite includes Couts and maybe some other Flyers down the road.
Carter wasn't elite, Schwartz, Tarasenko, etc.

Elite is elite, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane to a lesser extent, Toews really isn't better than Couts, Marchand?
Basically, to me "elite" means HOF caliber.
Ehlers and Laine are not elite players, and it's doubtful they ever will be.

Flyers may not have any HOF locks, but they have plenty of legitimate top six players and top four defensemen.
Frost, Lindblom, Farabee, TK is a nice foursome, with Brink on the way. And Couts and Hayes are only 28.
Giroux and Voracek may be complementary players at this point in their careers, but that's still nice to have in your top 9.
JVR, Laughton, we'll see what we have in Laczynski, Allison and Cates the next couple years

York should fill out a top four on defense in a year or two. Meanwhile Niskanen can hold the fort one more season.

And we have a franchise goalie, that makes up for a multitude of sins.

Do you realize how small York is? Just checking

 

[TB87]

My friend put it best: “Laine is Zherdev with an incredible shot.”

 

[Chinatown88]

Straaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw

 

[deadhead]

Do you realize how small York is? Just checking

Yes, we may have to trade him for a big RHD.

He looks more buffed up at 19 than Ghost at 26.
You can be small if you're strong and play with leverage (Spurgeon).

 

[Tarpongg]

As I mentioned recently

Agree. The best value there is. Unlike other pro leagues, in the NHL premium picks can still be acquired for a reasonable price. There are still GM’s that don’t value them as they should.

Furthermore, nothing more franchise crippling than signing the big ticket FA into their declining years.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Well he's our best shot at getting the type of player you want. We're not getting one in a trade and we're not finding one in FA.

We can hope for another one in the draft, but Frost has the post-draft development path of a very high pick, so I don't see us finding a much better prospect in the near future.

Too small, gets knocked off the puck too easily, can't compete with larger players, size, size, size......rargh!!!!!!!

In all fairness, I said it earlier, but Frost should have either been given the year to tear up the AHL or if they planned on having him on the big club, give him top 9 minutes and just let him play through things. Instead, we hear "he's not ready" or "he needs to be sheltered" bullshit. Just let him play.

 

[Striiker]

Too small, gets knocked off the puck too easily, can't compete with larger players, size, size, size......rargh!!!!!!!

In all fairness, I said it earlier, but Frost should have either been given the year to tear up the AHL or if they planned on having him on the big club, give him top 9 minutes and just let him play through things. Instead, we hear "he's not ready" or "he needs to be sheltered" bullshit. Just let him play.

No kidding. It's crazy that people are so afraid of some bumps in the road when it comes to young players with huge potential but they're perfectly willing to accept (and defend to the death) only bumps and no upside from awful guys like Thompson, Grant, Hagg, etc. just because they're older and heavier.

Meanwhile we watch an even younger guy like Suzuki, who isn't even as good of a prospect as Frost, flourish thanks to consistent playing time.
Even just as an example from the Flyers, look at how Konecny played in his 2017-2018 season when he was the same age as Frost was this year.

You'd think people would eventually learn their lesson... but of course not. It's 2020. Time to evolve. Frost will make mistakes, just like every other player, but if he's a net positive and continues to improve then just suck it up and let him play.

 

[DancingPanther]

No kidding. It's crazy that people are so afraid of some bumps in the road when it comes to young players with huge potential but they're perfectly willing to accept (and defend to the death) only bumps and no upside from awful guys like Thompson, Grant, Hagg, etc. just because they're older and heavier.

Meanwhile we watch an even younger guy like Suzuki, who isn't even as good of a prospect as Frost, flourish thanks to consistent playing time.
Even just as an example from the Flyers, look at how Konecny played in his 2017-2018 season when he was the same age as Frost was this year.

You'd think people would eventually learn their lesson... but of course not. It's 2020. Time to evolve. Frost will make mistakes, just like every other player, but if he's a net positive and continues to improve then just suck it up and let him play.

This is 2020. More like devolve

 

[Striiker]

This is 2020. More like devolve

*It's about to be 2021. Time to evolve.

 

[deadhead]

Well, they did give him 20 NHL games and 41 AHL games, that's about a "full season."

I don't think the fact that Frost wasn't ready last year means he won't be ready this year, he's obviously maturing physically slower than many of his peers, but it's not like he needs to be 200 lbs, more a legitimate 185 lbs or so (add 5 lbs of muscle) and learn how to deal with physical play.

As I point out above, Panarin was meh in the KHL at 20 and 21:
20: 50g 13-18 31 [Tarasenko at the same age - 54g 23-24 47]
21: 43g 11-8 19, then PO 14g 7-2 9 [Lehtera at 25 - 52g 17-29 46]
22: 51g 20-20 40 +21
Didn't come over until he was 24 and hit the ground running.
Panarin is listed at EP/HR at 5'11 168.

Point is it's not a big deal if Frost takes a year or two longer than other offensive centers to take off.

 

[DancingPanther]

*It's about to be 2021. Time to evolve.

News for ya bud. It always gets worse, and it's going to continue getting worse. The planet won't stop warming and COVID isn't going anywhere. Scapegoating the year is going to leave a lot of people disappointed

 

[deadhead]

Meanwhile we watch an even younger guy like Suzuki, who isn't even as good of a prospect as Frost, flourish thanks to consistent playing time.

This is BS.
Suzuki was drafted #13, Frost #27.
Suzuki posted 64g 42-58 100 in his PD +1
PD+2 59g 34-60 94 +40; PO 24g 16-26 42 +22

The difference is Suzuki was 5'11 183 at the combine (Frost 5'11 173), and is now close to 200 lbs.
He not only finished juniors on a stronger note than Frost, he's clearly more physically mature and ready for the NHL.

That doesn't mean that Frost may not surpass him in a couple years, we'll see.
But it's clear that Suzuki was more NHL ready THIS year.

 

[tucson83]

Too small, gets knocked off the puck too easily, can't compete with larger players, size, size, size......rargh!!!!!!!

In all fairness, I said it earlier, but Frost should have either been given the year to tear up the AHL or if they planned on having him on the big club, give him top 9 minutes and just let him play through things. Instead, we hear "he's not ready" or "he needs to be sheltered" bullshit. Just let him play.

why are you treating frost like he's sid the kid? because hextall drafted him? do you expect every player that hextall drafted to be a star and crap on fletch and the coaching staff if they are not?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So someone has to ask it. Would you sign Ryan 1yr 1m?

Nope.

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[deadhead]

why are you treating frost like he's sid the kid? because hextall drafted him? do you expect every player that hextall drafted to be a star and crap on fletch and the coaching staff if they are not?

Frost will be a star, while he was sheltered, he also posted a xGF of 2.45/60, 6th on the team after TK, Lindblom, Couts, JVR, Giroux. SSS but consistent with his CHL career. It was his defense that was lacking in his cameo.

He's not going to be a Selke candidate, but he can be average on defense or better, look at Giroux.
But his offensive skill package makes him a legitimate top six candidate, maybe 1C down the road if he reaches his upside.

 

[Jtown]

My friend put it best: “Laine is Zherdev with an incredible shot.”

how dare they degrade Zherdev like that.

 

[Amorgus]

Only if he gets a pizza before every post game interview.