2020 Offseason Thread Part III

[Ghosts Beer]

Flyers don't need Laine, I'd rather have Koivu.

Top nine is loaded, on a team that was 7th in EV goals per game (and just behind the Pens), they get a healthy Lindblom back, maybe Patrick and Farabee and Frost a year older.

They could use PP help, but with Lindblom, maybe Patrick, Sandin, a new PP coach would probably be more valuable than Laine.

Meanwhile, if Koivu would sign an affordable low cost deal, Raffl - Koivu - NAK could be the best 4th line in the NHL.

I think you're underselling their need for another offensive player. They may have been 7th in EV goals/game last year, but that was the regular season. Their scoring didn't cut it in the playoffs. Plus Giroux and Voracek are getting up there in age. A decline in their production should be anticipated.

As for Laine on the PP, you said in another post he would only add 3-4 more PP goals. I think you are missing that it's not only about the PP goals he scores, it's about how much more room the rest of the PP gets because of Laine's shot. The Flyers don't have that threat at the moment, so it's much easier to PK against them. It's like how teams defended the Eagles after DeSean left -- they didn't have to worry about getting burned deep, so they jammed everything up with ease.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Just a quick thought on Laine. The cost for any player is obviously key.

He's not however a lost cause by any means. You need a balance of being able to take the highly skilled offensive player, and teaching them some defense - instead of the safe 200 foot guy and hoping he pulls magic out of his ass to find an offensive game.

Again, Laine may not be the answer - but I would not be averse to at the very least exploring such a deal for a franchise that kind of has struggled to have a lot of names (outside of an aging G and V) in the top 30 forwards league wide for quite a while.

(Couturier I know)

 

[dingbathero]

What an idiot. Not sure why he thinks watching film of the players he is about to coach would help him at all

Whatever you do, don’t coach. Haha. BD is doing it right.

 

[Easternbull]

Laine improved his 200ft game showcaswed his elite passing and backchecked like a son of a gun.

Then come playoffs Maurice went ahead with Wheeler on th first line again, Patrik is not looking for more money he just want's the chance to be in the ice when the game is on the line , night after night. Patrick Laine is not a Greedy Diva, he is just feed up with Paul Maurice and so am I.





Show me another nhl coach who would put a 44 goal scorer on the second line after putting up numbers like that!!!?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Just a quick thought on Laine. The cost for any player is obviously key.

He's not however a lost cause by any means. You need a balance of being able to take the highly skilled offensive player, and teaching them some defense - instead of the safe 200 foot guy and hoping he pulls magic out of his ass to find an offensive game.

Again, Laine may not be the answer - but I would not be averse to at the very least exploring such a deal for a franchise that kind of has struggled to have a lot of names (outside of an aging G and V) in the top 30 forwards league wide for quite a while.

(Couturier I know)

It doesn't necessarily have to be Laine. But they need to add a stallion, as you put it. Or if not a complete stallion, at least someone with offensive explosiveness.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Laine improved his 200ft game showcaswed his elite passing and backchecked like a son of a gun.

Then come playoffs Maurice went ahead with Wheeler on th first line again, Patrik is not looking for more money he just want's the chance to be in the ice when the game is on the line , night after night. Patrick Laine is not a Greedy Diva, he is just feed up with Paul Maurice and so am I.



Show me another nhl coach who would put a 44 goal scorer on the second line for the next season!!!?

A kid came into the league and has put up damn good numbers since. Needs to improve some parts of his game but the talent is obviously there.

Maurice is a moron, and would have been destroyed here more than AV. Laine has flaws, but this club is not in the developmental arc where its going to be scoring top 5 draft picks. If it makes sense, I dont run away crying because he isn't a Crosby in his prime. Im just very skeptical of the approach that has us relying on a bunch of "slightly above average" in my eyes. Depth is key, but this lineup would look a lot better if you could slot some guys down.

There does need to be a move for a Johansen or Hossa in my eyes. Or ironically when LA brought in 17 and 18.

 

[FlyerNutter]

As for Koivu, it really would be something predictable.

On their way to icing the slowest group of centermen in the league. This franchise at times, I really do wonder if skating is an after thought.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A kid came into the league and has put up damn good numbers since. Needs to improve some parts of his game but the talent is obviously there.

Maurice is a moron, and would have been destroyed here more than AV. Laine has flaws, but this club is not in the developmental arc where its going to be scoring top 5 draft picks. If it makes sense, I dont run away crying because he isn't a Crosby in his prime. Im just very skeptical of the approach that has us relying on a bunch of "slightly above average" in my eyes. Depth is key, but this lineup would look a lot better if you could slot some guys down.

There does need to be a move for a Johansen or Hossa in my eyes.

BTW, if I had to bet, I'd wager it WILL be Laine. I think his combination of size, skill, and shot, and just having turned 22, will put him at the top of Fletcher's list. Imagine adding his size and skill to the size and skill of Hayes and Couturier, not to mention Myers on the back end. That size puts him in the horse category and gives him the edge over some of the other skill players available.

 

[Magua]

Worth re-posting/reposting/resigning/re-signing:

What's Patrik Laine Worth?

 

[BernieParent]

You mean other than Grompson?

I'm very interested in Grompson going somewhere other than the Flyers.

 

[FlyerNutter]

BTW, if I had to bet, I'd wager it WILL be Laine. I think his combination of size, skill, and shot, and just having turned 22, will put him at the top of Fletcher's list. Imagine adding his size and skill to the size and skill of Hayes and Couturier, not to mention Myers on the back end. That size puts him in the horse category and gives him the edge over some of the other skill players available.

Its hard to say. Im not blind to his flaws, but again - he's got more skill than a lot of the guys we have relied on for many years.

Its always the cost. Developing a strong D core took a long time. I'm not as married to some of the youngsters at the current time, mainly because I feel this organization has forced itself into competing while they still have G and V. I dont buy that the replacements for those two are in the ranks at this time, but maybe Frost proves me wrong.

I wouldn't have suggested it years ago, but they kind of painted themselves into going for it now in my eyes by hanging on to some aging stars and not totally bottoming out.

I just dont believe in organizations that kind of sit idle. If you aren't truly rebuilding, you should be going for it in my eyes. The middle of the road path, is one paved in mediocrity. Its more of how to build a team.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Ghost for Puljuljarvi? What we thinking boys

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Its hard to say. Im not blind to his flaws, but again - he's got more skill than a lot of the guys we have relied on for many years.

Its always the cost. Developing a strong D core took a long time. I'm not as married to some of the youngsters at the current time, mainly because I feel this organization has forced itself into competing while they still have G and V. I dont buy that the replacements for those two are in the ranks at this time, but maybe Frost proves me wrong.

I wouldn't have suggested it years ago, but they kind of painted themselves into going for it now in my eyes by hanging on to some aging stars and not totally bottoming out.

I just dont believe in organizations that kind of sit idle. If you aren't truly rebuilding, you should be going for it in my eyes. The middle of the road path, is one paved in mediocrity. Its more of how to build a team.

I agree with pretty much this entire post.

 

[Stizzle]

Ghost for Puljuljarvi? What we thinking boys

Come on, man.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I agree with pretty much this entire post.

I'd have disagreed with a lot shit with you in the past but crazy things happen. Whatevs.

I fully expect Fletcher to take us down a path of vanilla and an obsession with outdated attributes in any way possible, and then wonder why his club couldn't actually move into that next tier.

What I actually would advocate for, would be backing the truck up for AP. If you have to give up a youngster to get someone like Ottawa to take JVR so be it, but AP would allow you to move say Sanheim (who I am a big fan of, but I do rate Myers higher).

I do have a hard time justifying moving any of the young D if a true upgrade such as AP isn't coming in, I just think this club needs more upgrades than the infusion of prospects. The need is accelerated due to G and V's age.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

And please no Gaudreau or Ryan!!!
We already have a MIA playoff smurf!

 

[landsbergfan]

Whatever you do, don’t coach. Haha. BD is doing it right.

You don't think I could coach the Flyers?

 

[deadhead]

Skill does not win games, scoring more goals than the other team wins games.
Nor is Laine a playoff monster, 24g 4-5 9 at ES, which is OK, but not Briere clutch.

When you look at the big scorers for SC winners, it's not always the elite players:
STL: Schwartz 12, Tarasenko 11, ROR 8, Perron 7, Bozak & Schenn 5
Wash: Ovechkin 15, Kuznetsov 12, Oshie 8, Eller 7, Connolly 6
Pitt: Guentzel 13, Malkin 10, Crosby & Kessel 8, Rust 7
Pitt: Kessel 10, Hornqvist 9, Crosby, Malkin, Rust & Hagelin 6
Chi: Kane 11, Toews 10, Saad 8, Seabrook 7, Sharp 5
LA: Gaborik 14, Carter 10, J Williams 9, Toffoli 7, D Brown & Muzzin 6
Chi: Sharp 10, Kane & Bickell 9, Hossa 7, Shaw 5
LA: D Brown, Carter & Kopitar 8
BOS; Krejci 12, Marchand 11, Horton & Ryder 8, Bergeron 6
CHi: Byfuglien & Sharp 11, Kane 10, Bollan 8, Toews 7

 

[deadhead]

i don't understand why people want koivu when we have laughton as our 4c...

B/c Laughton is a better LW than center, especially defensively.
Koivu has been an elite defensive center, that allows you to start Frost at 3C and play Koivu with a lead in the 3rd period.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Skill does not win games, scoring more goals than the other team wins games.
Nor is Laine a playoff monster, 24g 4-5 9 at ES, which is OK, but not Briere clutch.

When you look at the big scorers for SC winners, it's not always the elite players:
STL: Schwartz 12, Tarasenko 11, ROR 8, Perron 7, Bozak & Schenn 5
Wash: Ovechkin 15, Kuznetsov 12, Oshie 8, Eller 7, Connolly 6
Pitt: Guentzel 13, Malkin 10, Crosby & Kessel 8, Rust 7
Pitt: Kessel 10, Hornqvist 9, Crosby, Malkin, Rust & Hagelin 6
Chi: Kane 11, Toews 10, Saad 8, Seabrook 7, Sharp 5
LA: Gaborik 14, Carter 10, J Williams 9, Toffoli 7, D Brown & Muzzin 6
Chi: Sharp 10, Kane & Bickell 9, Hossa 7, Shaw 5
LA: D Brown, Carter & Kopitar 8
BOS; Krejci 12, Marchand 11, Horton & Ryder 8, Bergeron 6
CHi: Byfuglien & Sharp 11, Kane 10, Bollan 8, Toews 7

The solution to moving this team forward is not more guys to stabilize the bottom 6. They are in house already. Its to infuse true higher talent into that top 6, and be able to move some of these guys down in the lineup.

The cost of course, becomes something one must get creative with.

I do disagree with skill not winning games. Balance is always key, but I would rather take my odds as the more skilled club being able to dictate pace as opposed to a club being forced to slow the game down, blind lobs up the middle of the ice praying for a transition chance, and hoping your star goaltender bails you out every night.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

Skill does not win games, scoring more goals than the other team wins games.
Nor is Laine a playoff monster, 24g 4-5 9 at ES, which is OK, but not Briere clutch.

When you look at the big scorers for SC winners, it's not always the elite players:
STL: Schwartz 12, Tarasenko 11, ROR 8, Perron 7, Bozak & Schenn 5
Wash: Ovechkin 15, Kuznetsov 12, Oshie 8, Eller 7, Connolly 6
Pitt: Guentzel 13, Malkin 10, Crosby & Kessel 8, Rust 7
Pitt: Kessel 10, Hornqvist 9, Crosby, Malkin, Rust & Hagelin 6
Chi: Kane 11, Toews 10, Saad 8, Seabrook 7, Sharp 5
LA: Gaborik 14, Carter 10, J Williams 9, Toffoli 7, D Brown & Muzzin 6
Chi: Sharp 10, Kane & Bickell 9, Hossa 7, Shaw 5
LA: D Brown, Carter & Kopitar 8
BOS; Krejci 12, Marchand 11, Horton & Ryder 8, Bergeron 6
CHi: Byfuglien & Sharp 11, Kane 10, Bollan 8, Toews 7

And each of those teams have an ELITE player or two on their roster!

 

[FlyerNutter]

And each of those teams have an ELITE player or two on their roster!

I dont want this to be that I dont think the Flyers dont have any skilled guys up front. They do, but there needs to be help there.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'd have disagreed with a lot shit with you in the past but crazy things happen. Whatevs.

I fully expect Fletcher to take us down a path of vanilla and an obsession with outdated attributes in any way possible, and then wonder why his club couldn't actually move into that next tier.

What I actually would advocate for, would be backing the truck up for AP. If you have to give up a youngster to get someone like Ottawa to take JVR so be it, but AP would allow you to move say Sanheim (who I am a big fan of, but I do rate Myers higher).

I do have a hard time justifying moving any of the young D if a true upgrade such as AP isn't coming in, I just think this club needs more upgrades than the infusion of prospects. The need is accelerated due to G and V's age.

To get back to our sense of normalcy, I disagree with some of your points here.

I expect Fletcher to make a big name trade and probably multiple trades overall this offseason. I don't think he's going to sit pat or go the vanilla route like Hextall did. His Hayes acquisition sure wasn't a vanilla move., and I don't think he's just going to stop there.

I also disagree with you on Pietrangelo. He'll be 31 around the time the season starts, he's already played 10 NHL seasons and closing in on 800 games, and he's going to get a monster deal in terms of cap hit and length. His best days are probably numbered, and I don't want to be stuck with a declining 30-something defenseman taking up that much of the Flyers' cap for that long. I want to avoid a potential Wade Redden-esque situation. Pietrangelo is good, but he's no Pronger.

But I do agree with you that the Flyers need more upgrades than just the prospects entering the lineup. The prospects are good, but they aren't great, and I think many on this board overrate them. And I agree that Giroux and Voracek's age is part of this equation. They can't just sit back and wait for their good-but-not-great prospects to hit their peaks, because that could take multiple years and Giroux and Voracek are already beginning to decline.

 

[Starat327]

Ah, the small sample size champion approaches yet again!

 

[Beef Invictus]

hextall fans are really married to his prospects that any great talent that is available, they say naw, our talent is better than them and that's the reason why we havent won nothing in 45 years and yet it wont be hexy's fault if they bust, it will be fletcher and the coaching staff's fault. the whole point of having prospects is to cash in and bring in talent and not keep for that sake of it not unless it's a top 5 player like provy.

Who exactly are these mythical Hextall Fans you always reference?

Why do you always pretend people are saying things that they aren't?