2020 Offseason Thread Part III

[Beef Invictus]

Show me another nhl coach who would put a 44 goal scorer on the second line after putting up numbers like that!!!?

Hakstol.

 

[DancingPanther]

Worth re-posting/reposting/resigning/re-signing:

What's Patrik Laine Worth?

.....

 

[FlyerNutter]

To get back to our sense of normalcy, I disagree with some of your points here.

I expect Fletcher to make a big name trade and probably multiple trades overall this offseason. I don't think he's going to sit pat or go the vanilla route like Hextall did. His Hayes acquisition sure wasn't a vanilla move., and I don't think he's just going to stop there.

I also disagree with you on Pietrangelo. He'll be 31 around the time the season starts, he's already played 10 NHL seasons and closing in on 800 games, and he's going to get a monster deal in terms of cap hit and length. His best days are probably numbered, and I don't want to be stuck with a declining 30-something defenseman taking up that much of the Flyers' cap for that long. I want to avoid a potential Wade Redden-esque situation. Pietrangelo is good, but he's no Pronger.

But I do agree with you that the Flyers need more upgrades than just the prospects entering the lineup. The prospects are good, but they aren't great, and I think many on this board overrate them. And I agree that Giroux and Voracek's age is part of this equation. They can't just sit back and wait for their good-but-not-great prospects to hit their peaks, because that could take multiple years and Giroux and Voracek are already beginning to decline.

Meh, I dont mind if some people overrate or underrate. Different points of view make it fun. I wont pretend that I am a guy that looks at the fancy numbers or prospects in depth.

I will say I do watch them a decent amount, and I do think someone like Laine is better than he seems to be given credit for, and I also think he has room to become an improved player. I do think he is someone worth taking a gamble on if the cost is right.

The cap becomes an issue very soon. You've got 30 million taken up by JVR, Hayes, an aging Jake and G. I love the latter two, but 30 million is a lot of cash for those 4. Makes it tough to do the bigger moves that I do think are needed. Flyers are in a tough spot.

 

[Adtar02]

What an odd read.

 

[FlyerNutter]

What an odd read.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Striiker]

Love the effort. Way to not be lazy!

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[Striiker]

hextall fans are really married to his prospects that any great talent that is available, they say naw, our talent is better than them and that's the reason why we havent won nothing in 45 years and yet it wont be hexy's fault if they bust, it will be fletcher and the coaching staff's fault. the whole point of having prospects is to cash in and bring in talent and not keep for that sake of it not unless it's a top 5 player like provy.

1) Please stop saying Hextall was the perfect GM who never made a single mistake. It's not true.

2) "haven't won nothing" would mean we won something.

3) Please explain the meaning of "top 5 player like provy".

 

[Striiker]

Show me another nhl coach who would put a 44 goal scorer on the second line after putting up numbers like that!!!?

Hakstol.

This one.

The one that put Giroux on the 4th line and put arguably the best PP defensemen in the league on the 2nd unit.

 

[Adtar02]

Care to elaborate?

Just some of the posts.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Just some of the posts.

I never claim to be rational, my visions lead to a land of the unknown lol

 

[BritainStix]

This one.

The one that put Giroux on the 4th line and put arguably the best PP defensemen in the league on the 2nd unit.

 

[BigToe]

I hate squirrels

 

[Adtar02]

Meh, I dont mind if some people overrate or underrate. Different points of view make it fun. I wont pretend that I am a guy that looks at the fancy numbers or prospects in depth.

I will say I do watch them a decent amount, and I do think someone like Laine is better than he seems to be given credit for, and I also think he has room to become an improved player. I do think he is someone worth taking a gamble on if the cost is right.

The cap becomes an issue very soon. You've got 30 million taken up by JVR, Hayes, an aging Jake and G. I love the latter two, but 30 million is a lot of cash for those 4. Makes it tough to do the bigger moves that I do think are needed. Flyers are in a tough spot.

While I agree that Laine is super talented and could improve.
I also may agree that we may not have a player of that talent in our system. I also think cost is the important part of acquiring the player. I don’t see a way where it works as a net benefit for the flyers.

Yes Giroux and voracek May never put up the same amount of points as before. They are still really good. And could easily see either being our top scorer at over a point per game next year. I also agree that 30 million between jvr and Hayes with the fore mentioned players is too much for what we get from them long term. While Hayes was good for the the team and a key piece. It was always his contract coupled with jvr’s that was most unsettling

We always state the miss was the year we added jvr. We need a Hayes or shorter term 2/3c instead of left wing. Mostly to bridge the gap to frost becoming an impact player. Not a star, impact.

Of those four jvr seems like the odd man out. Of the players most talked about it’s for a skill player with other issues. I use the plural as cost to acquire, cost of contract, and total on ice impact are all varying degrees of red flags.

Personally I am more of a stay pat person. As I think we have talent to fill in where I think our biggest holes were. At the bottom of our line up. Both offensively and defensively. Our prospect aren’t devoid of talent. Heck Giroux wasn’t thought to ever be as good as he is.

And just cause. Giroux and voracek looked down right dominant our last few games. They still have it. I don’t think the team is far away. But I do think that a huge trade isn’t what’s best yet. And older veterans are(4 liners) not a need

 

[Adtar02]

I never claim to be rational, my visions lead to a land of the unknown lol

It’s wasn’t you. More responses to you.

 

[Adtar02]

I hate squirrels

Would imagine they might be tough to chase

 

[Striiker]

If only we had a super talented prospect...

One who dominated juniors and the WJC...

I wonder where we could find one of those...

 

[FlyerNutter]

If only we had a super talented prospect...

One who dominated juniors and the WJC...

I wonder where we could find one of those...

Haha your belief in Frost I something I wish I could suck out of you and put in myself

 

[Striiker]

Haha your belief in Frost I something I wish I could suck out of you and put in myself

Well he's our best shot at getting the type of player you want. We're not getting one in a trade and we're not finding one in FA.

We can hope for another one in the draft, but Frost has the post-draft development path of a very high pick, so I don't see us finding a much better prospect in the near future.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Well he's our best shot at getting the type of player you want. We're not getting one in a trade and we're not finding one in FA.

We can hope for another one in the draft, but Frost has the post-draft development path of a very high pick, so I don't see us finding a much better prospect in the near future.

 

[CutOnDime97]

If only we had a super talented prospect...

One who dominated juniors and the WJC...

I wonder where we could find one of those...

 

[CutOnDime97]

On the real... we should've drafted Caulfield

 

[Flyer lurker]

So someone has to ask it. Would you sign Ryan 1yr 1m?

 

[Striiker]

As I mentioned recently

the way that teams get a Crosby or Malkin or Ovechkin or Giroux or Matthews or Marner or McDavid or Eichel or Point or Kucherov or Stamkos or Barzal or MacKinnon or Rantanen or Pettersson or Marchand or Kane or Scheifele or Pasternak or Gaudreau is by drafting them. I could keep naming players but we get the point.

Every single one of those players are playing for the team that drafted them. Not a single one was added through a trade or free agency after they were already what they are today.

 

[FLYguy3911]

On the real... we should've drafted Caulfield

I'd rather have Millman.

Judd Caulfield at eliteprospects.com

 

[deadhead]

The need is accelerated due to G and V's age.

G and V aren't the heart of this team anymore.

G had 31 ES points, and as I've shown it wasn't a bad luck year, rather a return to a normal rate of scoring given his xGF.
That is, he's still a solid forward, but not a key player anymore.

Voracek had 39 ES points but only 8 goals. He actually scored a little more than you'd expect given xGF.
Voracek actually played better overall as he adjusts his game to account for his decline in speed. While his offense has slightly declined, his defense was much improved. So I don't see a problem with him the next few years.

This offense is not longer the first line and bust, next season with Lindblom healthy and Frost and Farabee maturing, they should roll three solid lines that can score. It would not surprise me if neither Giroux or Voracek are among the top five in ES scoring on this team next year.