Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 8

[hohosaregood]

I wonder if we are going to have to resort to just loading the top line to get any meaningful scoring opportunities and hope the rest of the lines can just hold even.

They can't even play as a 5 man unit. I don't think loading up a line will solve any problems when execution has been balls from top to bottom.

 

[Coily]

 

[Used As A Shield]

They can't even play as a 5 man unit. I don't think loading up a line will solve any problems when execution has been balls from top to bottom.

It really has been bad.... I am just not sure where/what is going to actually improve.

 

[Pavelski2112]

It really has been bad.... I am just not sure where/what is going to actually improve.

I'm not one to be kneejerk about what needs to happen, but I do think a serious coaching change is needed. I don't dislike PDB, but every coach has an expiration date, and maybe he's just lost the room.

This team isn't as bad as it's playing, it's coming down to literally almost everyone not executing.

 

[Saskatoon]

Goodrow on line 2 is very sad

 

[The Nemesis]

Easy. Because those two aren't actually doing much on the whole of it. They aren't screwing up as badly as others so I get that part of it but they aren't standing out and showing they belong yet in the lineup because what they've done hasn't led to anything of merit. Goodrow in there is just playing favorites. Gambrell I think is still just for showcase purposes but if he actually worked out for them, they'd be happy with that too. The fact that he was already benched shows they know and see he isn't getting the job done yet. I'd still put Bergmann and Yurtaykin in over either of them but they aren't good yet either.

I think we have to give up on the idea of showcasing as a reason for lineup decisions. For the last few years it feels like every year someone gets undeserved run in the lineup and the rationalization is "well, he must be showcasing the guy" only for nothing to ever happen. I'm beginning to doubt that DeBoer would make the decision to play a guy just to help DW trade him. Instead it's easier just to recognize that he weights his decisions as much on emotional connection and personal hunches as he does actual sensible logic. So Gambrell getting to stick around and keep plugging away while he does nothing of note because Pete likes him for some reason while the kids are easy scratches because he can play the rookie card and expect that nobody will challenge him on it.

And because when the coach does get criticized there will be gatekeeper journalists who wag their fingers at the fans and tell them that it's too soon to criticize the coach, and even if it wasn't we fans haven't earned the right to do so because we're not hockey people like he is."

 

[FunkyPhin]

Goodrow on line 2 is very sad

Wasn't there a thread on the main boards where a guy was roasted for having gambrell on the second line? How far we've come

 

[The Nemesis]

I could write a book but that is not my strength. Maybe @The Nemesis can help.

1) Foreword by Dylan DeMelo

2) Chapter 1:

3) The End

 

[The Nemesis]

Wasn't there a thread on the main boards where a guy was roasted for having gambrell on the second line? How far we've come

It wasn't the main boards. It was that LastWordOnSports prospect list thread on here where he named Gambrell the #2 prospect in teh system and claimed that he could potentially usurp Hertl as the #2 C.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Game 7 was one of the worst things to happen to this franchise in a long time, long term. Spott kept his job, and now Goodrow's leash is miles long.

Agree 100%, it's like that win somehow erased how shit we played for a majority of that series and ignores the fact that Vegas basically gave it away instead of putting us away like they should have.

Then again, I also think a deep run is what ultimately helped keep Karlsson so I'm torn.

 

[Dicdonya]

It wasn't the main boards. It was that LastWordOnSports prospect list thread on here where he named Gambrell the #2 prospect in teh system and claimed that he could potentially usurp Hertl as the #2 C.

Nah there was a thread on the main page where someone spotted gambrell into the 2c, or implied at the very least he could go there and move Hertl to wing.

It’s the same thread with the silly assertion that Hertl is a tier below RNH, and Cooch.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Agree 100%, it's like that win somehow erased how **** we played for a majority of that series and ignores the fact that Vegas basically gave it away instead of putting us away like they should have.

Then again, I also think a deep run is what ultimately helped keep Karlsson so I'm torn.

Yea, I agree with this too. Losing Karlsson would've been disastrous, and DW would've probably ended up giving Pavs too much money.

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

That's what boggles my mind. When you are in a goal scoring drought and are giving up 4-5 per game, don't you need to adjust, temporarily, to a boring, defense first style?

Good offense starts on defense with break out plays. We can't start a break out play till we defend
and win some 1 on 1 battles and or get the position of the puck in our end. This would / should strengthen players mindset on defense in our zone first instead of cheating and or poor positional play.
Once we get out of our end and in the other teams then we need to crispen up offence and puck position for more zone time and scoring chances. Some PP goals would help!

Stated another way - we are not going to be a top 3 scoring team this season, top 10+- maybe, the only way we will win games is if we can lower our goals against. This means better team D and goal-tending in our end, breakout plays, better special teams, etc.

Bottom line here is this is not last years team, this years team needs to play different to get results. They have not figured that out yet.

 

[Used As A Shield]

It wasn't the main boards. It was that LastWordOnSports prospect list thread on here where he named Gambrell the #2 prospect in teh system and claimed that he could potentially usurp Hertl as the #2 C.

Nah there was a thread on the main page where someone spotted gambrell into the 2c, or implied at the very least he could go there and move Hertl to wing.

It’s the same thread with the silly assertion that Hertl is a tier below RNH, and Cooch.

Ahh, this one:
Ranking NHL Teams By Forwards

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I think we have to give up on the idea of showcasing as a reason for lineup decisions. For the last few years it feels like every year someone gets undeserved run in the lineup and the rationalization is "well, he must be showcasing the guy" only for nothing to ever happen. I'm beginning to doubt that DeBoer would make the decision to play a guy just to help DW trade him. Instead it's easier just to recognize that he weights his decisions as much on emotional connection and personal hunches as he does actual sensible logic. So Gambrell getting to stick around and keep plugging away while he does nothing of note because Pete likes him for some reason while the kids are easy scratches because he can play the rookie card and expect that nobody will challenge him on it.

And because when the coach does get criticized there will be gatekeeper journalists who wag their fingers at the fans and tell them that it's too soon to criticize the coach, and even if it wasn't we fans haven't earned the right to do so because we're not hockey people like he is."

Goldobin was called up in 2017 after not playing in the NHL for a long time and then he was traded within a few weeks. The same thing happened with O’Regan in 2018.

I believe showcasing does happen but it’s not actually the driving force behind lineup decisions nearly as frequently as fans like to believe.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It wasn't the main boards. It was that LastWordOnSports prospect list thread on here where he named Gambrell the #2 prospect in teh system and claimed that he could potentially usurp Hertl as the #2 C.

Maybe that was his Last Word.

 

[LA Shark]

How the hell is possible that Bergmann and Yurtaykin are extras in today's practice! Goodrow in top 6 and Gambrell still in the lineup. What is wrong with PDB.

This seriously might be the most PDB thing I've ever seen. Its him in a nutshell. Dont hold any of the vets accountable, just blame it on the rookies and have our writers reassure the fans that he cant be criticized till after Thanksgiving. Goodrow on the 2nd line is seriously vomit inducing.

 

[Jargon]

I have to imagine/beg/pray that eventually Goodrow and Radil switch places but frankly I'd be FAR more interested to see how Yurtaykin does on that line when Kane is on it.

You know, 'cause Yurtaykin plays like Donskoi and they clicked really well.

Or, you know, put Yurtaykin on the Meier-Couture line 'cause they really gelled when Nyquist was on it and Yurtaykin also has some similarities to his game...

But no, a grinder who can't score makes way more sense.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

i thought this was just a shark chart til i took a second glance and saw Faska there, sandwiched between 4 sharks

And because when the coach does get criticized there will be gatekeeper journalists who wag their fingers at the fans and tell them that it's too soon to criticize the coach, and even if it wasn't we fans haven't earned the right to do so because we're not hockey people like he is."

while i agree with your premise, i do believe that the relationship between coach-player is significantly underrated around here, sitting behind a computer screens posting lines based on corsi and puck possessions is fine and dandy when you dont have to manage players feelings, emotions and interact with them day to day. Not accounting for these issues and just running the a corsi based lineup may work for a few games, but will lead to negative consequences as the season goes on

and while criticism for dismissing opinions because they arent "hockey people" is warranted, recently the analytic/twitter/reddit/numbers community have based alot of their questions using numbers only, without considering the human interactions that occur and can effect those numbers. "hockey guys" tend to understand the interactions having been in those situations on the opposite side. a blend is needed to effectively construct a lineup IMO. Which is why some teams have an analytics department, but dont take everything the say and recommend.

 

[Mafoofoo]

If those are the lines Pete plans to use for real fire him into the sun

 

[hockfan1991]

Wasn't there a thread on the main boards where a guy was roasted for having gambrell on the second line? How far we've come

ya ignorant Larry Fischer A respectable analyst and writer he says. who wanted an apology from me when he said gambrell has too 6 written all over him

I said he would be lucky to be on fourth line he should be in press box

he laughed at me and said I should really learn more about my team
has since disappeared and no one has seen or heard anything

Like he vanished out of thin air


I’m waiting for my damn apology he owes me

I told u so fisher u idiot!!!!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Vlasic’s contract is looking more and more like the worst in the league.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think you have to separate Vlasic and Burns until Vlasic starts to get his stuff together.

Ferraro-Burns
Dillon-Karlsson
Vlasic-whoever right now it would be Carrick

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Also for all the valid concerns about having a replacement level player in the top-6, it’s worth noting that St. Louis just won a Cup rotating replacement level players in Sammy Blais and Zach Sanford on the left wing of their 2nd line. Both of those guys are not any better than Barclay Goodrow. So while it’s a legit issue, it’s something that a well-coached and well-built team can overcome, and it’s not an automatic excuse for failure.