Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 8

[tiburon12]

The team looks bad. Out of synch with each other, out of practice with basic skills, slow decision making, slow transitions, bereft of strategy. The forwards seem to be fighting each other for the puck and position, that is when they can even establish an offense. Burns looks really bad, but Karlsson looks really good. Ferraro looks like he is making good decisions and hustling, but Vlasic seems to be lazy and making poor decisions.

I'm not in panic mode yet, but there needs to be fixes made with urgency. I expect, as lines settle in, chemistry will come, but right now it's just not there. We seem to be playing like a car in winter that hasn't been properly warmed up.

 

[hockeyCEO]

I'm not ready to panic yet. I'll break my view down into components:

1) Five-on-five play. First game Sharks were awful in Vegas, totally outperformed. But the last two were much better. We're not scoring, but if we can dictate play, the scoring will come. Control the puck, dictate play, impose your will, etc. That's where to look for improvement.

2) Penalty kill. A bright spot on the sharks this year. Boughner should be proud.

3) Power play. Bad (no surprise). Most of this is on the players. Three short-handed against cannot happen in two games. Burns doesn't look comfortable in Pavelski's PP spot. He's made a living by getting shots off from the blue line. The talent is there, so the PP will get corrected, but maybe with a different look.

4) Goal tending. OK. Giving up a weak first goal of the game has got to stop. Otherwise, goaltending has been good so far.

5) PDB. His "system" is not the problem. Personnel decisions and putting players in unfamiliar roles is on him. He's a player's coach, and the uptempo system he uses is pretty standard in today's NHL. If we were to do a coaching change, I'd call up Roy Sommer. But I don't see this happening yet.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I'm not ready to panic yet. I'll break my view down into components:

1) Five-on-five play. First game Sharks were awful in Vegas, totally outperformed. But the last two were much better. We're not scoring, but if we can dictate play, the scoring will come. Control the puck, dictate play, impose your will, etc. That's where to look for improvement.

2) Penalty kill. A bright spot on the sharks this year. Boughner should be proud.

3) Power play. Bad (no surprise). Most of this is on the players. Three short-handed against cannot happen in two games. Burns doesn't look comfortable in Pavelski's PP spot. He's made a living by getting shots off from the blue line. The talent is there, so the PP will get corrected, but maybe with a different look.

4) Goal tending. OK. Giving up a weak first goal of the game has got to stop. Otherwise, goaltending has been good so far.

5) PDB. His "system" is not the problem. Personnel decisions and putting players in unfamiliar roles is on him. He's a player's coach, and the uptempo system he uses is pretty standard in today's NHL. If we were to do a coaching change, I'd call up Roy Sommer. But I don't see this happening yet.

The penalty kill actually hasn’t been good. They’re giving up the front of the net like candy on Halloween and they’ve been fortunate not to allow any goals there, but that doesn’t mean it’s sustainable.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

this sounds suspiciously like the start of last year.

Yup. The chicken littles were out in full force until December (I was one) and then PDB shut everyone up. Not falling for that shit this time. From my perspective it looks like a chemistry thing and some absolutely boneheaded plays. Getting Kane back with Hertl and giving whoever the top 2 right wings time to gell will do more for this team than panic and prematurely declaring a wasted season. With Kane in the lineup the forwards are fine. Are they great? No, and they'll be average or below as long as the one super stud (Hertl) so far isn't playing like it. Still reserving judgement until 10 or 20 games in and the young players get acclimated to playing in the best league in the world. From what I've seen though I would prefer to see this...

Kane - Hertl - Yourtalkin
Meier - Couture - Bergmann

Both lines have big bodies to offset the one smaller player.

The team looks bad. Out of synch with each other, out of practice with basic skills, slow decision making, slow transitions, bereft of strategy. The forwards seem to be fighting each other for the puck and position, that is when they can even establish an offense. Burns looks really bad, but Karlsson looks really good. Ferraro looks like he is making good decisions and hustling, but Vlasic seems to be lazy and making poor decisions.

I'm not in panic mode yet, but there needs to be fixes made with urgency. I expect, as lines settle in, chemistry will come, but right now it's just not there. We seem to be playing like a car in winter that hasn't been properly warmed up.

So shocked that you and I think the same.

 

[sub_zero94]

Can Gambrell really help this team more then Suomlla could ?

Suomella would be really nice on the 2nd PP unit .. for God sakes, Goodrow has been playing on it

 

[KirbyDots]

3rd period of the Anaheim game, I felt like the guys came out with some fire. Too little too late, but I suspect things aren’t as dire as they might seem.

That said, our roster is far from complete. The loss of Pavelski, Braun, Nyquist, Donskoi has not been even slightly mitigated. I think Ferraro has done an outstanding job so far, but he is ultimately a rookie and not so naturally gifted as to be an immediate impact player. Certainly not ready to eat all of Braun’s minutes. Meanwhile, our entire right side is empty, our best RW and hope for replacing 38 goal scorer Joe Pavelski is Kevin Labanc, and there exists nothing even close in the depth chart after that. Melker, Yurtaykin, Radil, Brodzinski, and even Gambrell are 4th line player. They are not replacements for what we lost - although they would allow us to move Melker for more cap space at the TDL. Hell maybe we can even get a few late picks for a couple of them like we did with Desjardins and Sheppard.

I think Simek and Kane coming back will certainly help, but we need another top-6 winger at a minimum.

Even then, this team is not deep enough for a real run. A bad string of injuries could easily knock us out of contention. And injuries will inevitably derail us from getting much further than round 1 if we do make it.

Projected Line-Up:

Timo - Couture - TDL
Kane - Hertl - Labanc
Sorenson - Thornton - Brodzinski
Radil - Goodrow - Yurtaykin

Burns - Vlasic
Dillion - Karlsson
Ferraro - Simek (Off Side)

We need make a move long before the trade deadline or there won't be any playoffs. This team has no offense up front. I disagree that we can't make a deep run if we acquire a legit top 6, very possible if the team manages to fix our team d, which is a big "if" with the current coaching staff. I'd like them to add a top 6 winger asap, it's just too important to wait on and the shouldn't be afraid to overpay for the right fit. We are set to win now if we make a move or two, they need to be made.

What I'd like to see happen:

Kane-Hertl-Top 6
Meier-Couture-Yurtaikin
Bergmann-addition/prospect-Labanc
Sorenson-Thornton-Karlsson
Radil-Goodrow-Brodzinski

Vlasic-Burns
Simek-Karlsson
Ferraro-Heed
Prout

If Simek isn't 100% or Vlasic struggles we may need to hang onto Dillon. But we'd have to find another way to make the cap work. The important thing is to make the trade soon for the top 6, that will push everyone else down and give the team a more potent attack. The next priority should finding depth to split time with Jumbo, doesn't need to be an expensive player, just a solid 3rd line defensive center. If we can't do that the next logical place to add is the bottom pairing d, it seems like spot of concern for Deboer who doesn't trust Heed. We could go after someone like Honka to solidify the spot next to Ferraro who has been a bright spot.

Yes, things look bleak, but it's f***ing early. Everyone needs to unclench and start trusting DW to make a move or two that we obviously need. The team can't afford to tank, we don't have a first. We can't afford to wait til winter, the team as it currently stands won't make the playoffs. I dobt it will be another Jumbo type deal but something will be done.

 

[FunkyPhin]

Sad that we had such a stacked team last year, and even with massive injuries to key players we still went to game 6 of the WCF. Sucks how badly you need every little thing to fall perfectly in place.

 

[Alwalys]

welp. kane coming back should shake things up, let's see how much.

 

[Sharksfan83]

There's no way Vlasic is happy here. Once we signed Karlsson he seemed to turn sour, and now he missed out on that leadership group, I think he is playing like he's sour. Maybe I'm over reading it completely.

 

[Barrie22]

Can Gambrell really help this team more then Suomlla could ?

Suomella would be really nice on the 2nd PP unit .. for God sakes, Goodrow has been playing on it

Well no but suomella couldn't help in any way either. Outside of that 1st month with donskoi last year, he has been basically garbage in the ahl and nhl.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Well no but suomella couldn't help in any way either. Outside of that 1st month with donskoi last year, he has been basically garbage in the ahl and nhl.

He was sheltered and had Donkey AND Kane babysitting him. I wanted him to work out but he hasn't shown anything. Better bet to just put Kane, Yourtalkin, Jumbo, Ferraro or maybe Bergmann on PP2 and double shift EK65. At least they won't get outworked and Ferraro can limit the 2 on O shorthanded goals. Maybe Brodzinski in the Ovi spot...? Dude has a great shot.

 

[WSS11]

I'm not ready to panic yet. I'll break my view down into components:

1) Five-on-five play. First game Sharks were awful in Vegas, totally outperformed. But the last two were much better. We're not scoring, but if we can dictate play, the scoring will come. Control the puck, dictate play, impose your will, etc. That's where to look for improvement.

2) Penalty kill. A bright spot on the sharks this year. Boughner should be proud.

3) Power play. Bad (no surprise). Most of this is on the players. Three short-handed against cannot happen in two games. Burns doesn't look comfortable in Pavelski's PP spot. He's made a living by getting shots off from the blue line. The talent is there, so the PP will get corrected, but maybe with a different look.

4) Goal tending. OK. Giving up a weak first goal of the game has got to stop. Otherwise, goaltending has been good so far.

5) PDB. His "system" is not the problem. Personnel decisions and putting players in unfamiliar roles is on him. He's a player's coach, and the uptempo system he uses is pretty standard in today's NHL. If we were to do a coaching change, I'd call up Roy Sommer. But I don't see this happening yet.

His system is the problem. You can play an uptempo system while not giving up ten odd man rushes a game. Just look at Vegas. You could have made the excuse of him putting players in unfamiliar roles for these three games if it wasn’t for the fact that he has tried to install this system for well over a year now. Last years team full of veteran players did just a poorly in the neutral and defensive zones.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Sad that we had such a stacked team last year, and even with massive injuries to key players we still went to game 6 of the WCF. Sucks how badly you need every little thing to fall perfectly in place.

The Sharks are the poster child of the NHL for “everything needs to go perfect to win a Cup”. Last year’s team was stacked, until we lost a top-5 defenseman in the world, our best goal-scorer, and our PPG #1C. You think St. Louis would have won if they were missing Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, and O’Reilly?

 

[weastern bias]

Last year’s team was stacked, until we lost a top-5 defenseman in the world, our best goal-scorer, and our PPG #1C. You think St. Louis would have won if they were missing Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, and O’Reilly?

I've been kicking myself over just that all summer

If the tables were turned we're at least in the finals last year

 

[hockeyCEO]

His system is the problem. You can play an uptempo system while not giving up ten odd man rushes a game. Just look at Vegas. You could have made the excuse of him putting players in unfamiliar roles for these three games if it wasn’t for the fact that he has tried to install this system for well over a year now. Last years team full of veteran players did just a poorly in the neutral and defensive zones.

His system does not call for turnovers at the blue line, defenders pinching with no wing support, predictable passes to the point that are easily intercepted, not picking up the trailing attacker, losing puck battles along the boards, lazy on the back-check, etc. These are all taught in beginner's hockey.

In my opinion, glaring miscues and a power play with more goals against than for is where the problems are. Players need to relax and have fun with the game.

 

[WSS11]

His system does not call for turnovers at the blue line, defenders pinching with no wing support, predictable passes to the point that are easily intercepted, not picking up the trailing attacker, losing puck battles along the boards, lazy on the back-check, etc. These are all taught in beginner's hockey.

In my opinion, glaring miscues and a power play with more goals against than for is where the problems are. Players need to relax and have fun with the game.

Running the offense from the point is part of his system. Teams are having their wingers cheat high which is causing turnovers high leading to odd man rushes because our forwards are all down low looking for rebounds and tips.

Also, if the team isn’t relaxed and still making these mistakes after a year and a half then whose fault is that with all the roster turnover?

 

[KarlssonsGroin]

There's no way Vlasic is happy here. Once we signed Karlsson he seemed to turn sour, and now he missed out on that leadership group, I think he is playing like he's sour. Maybe I'm over reading it completely.

im very over Vlasic. Hes an excellent shutdown defenceman, but hes a dark whole of puck moving on the left side, and its been worse since hes tried to get more involved. With the emergence of Ferraro id be content running Dillon-Ferraro-Simek/DeSimmone/Carrick whoever down the left side if it meant Vlasic brought back a legit top 6 winger and picks

 

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

By game ten, the Sharks better have fired Pete DeBoer and acquired Josh Ho-Sang. I, in all my infinite wisdom, hath spoken, and so it shall be.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

His system does not call for turnovers at the blue line, defenders pinching with no wing support, predictable passes to the point that are easily intercepted, not picking up the trailing attacker, losing puck battles along the boards, lazy on the back-check, etc. These are all taught in beginner's hockey.

In my opinion, glaring miscues and a power play with more goals against than for is where the problems are. Players need to relax and have fun with the game.

His system is a problem because of your second point in the first line. Defenders pinching is absolutely a part of the system. Yeah they want the forwards to support but they are down low almost all the time and are also not mostly quick enough to cover the pinching d-man because they are put in a position that doesn't lend credence to cover them defensively. So they're put in a defensive disadvantage by positioning and it is compounded by the team's lack of speed in their forward group. That is absolutely a system issue. The predictable passes to the point are entirely system based. That's their bread and butter and teams have been adjusting while this team and coaching does not. Yes they are also doing stupid turnovers at the blue line and losing races and battles. They are also lazy on the back check as well but the system issues are still clearly there and prevalent and getting worse.

The reality is that this team has to play almost perfectly to grind out a scoring opportunity with the system they play and they're still going to give up two or three glorious chances the other way in the process of doing it. It's not a sustainable system long term and it's obvious that the attention to defensive play is simply not there for the team as a whole. Whether that's players not listening to coaches or coaches not emphasizing it enough, it's still a coaching problem. Besides, DeBoer is at that point in his tenure where he is right at his expiration date. The team has a lot of problems. DeBoer is one of them at this point...so is Doug Wilson whether people like to hear that or not.

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

What i think needs to happen to get back on track.
1) Kane is back, get him back with his line-mates, have lebanc with jumbo and sorenson,
so we'll have 2 of the 3 top lines that have / are used to playing with each other. Lets get Semik
back and playing as we need his physical game on the left side. Lets home for some synergy.
2) start dell next game as i think he was better overall
3) get back to defensive systems and make sure we don't get scored on - i'd rather enter the 3rd period
in a 0-0 game than down 2,3,4 to 1.
4) work on / fix special teams - we need a lethal power play and to not give us shorties

 

[Jwec]

How the hell is possible that Bergmann and Yurtaykin are extras in today's practice! Goodrow in top 6 and Gambrell still in the lineup. What is wrong with PDB.

 

[ChompChomp]

3) get back to defensive systems and make sure we don't get scored on - i'd rather enter the 3rd period
in a 0-0 game than down 2,3,4 to 1.

That's what boggles my mind. When you are in a goal scoring drought and are giving up 4-5 per game, don't you need to adjust, temporarily, to a boring, defense first style?

 

[KirbyDots]

How the hell is possible that Bergmann and Yurtaykin are extras in today's practice! Goodrow in top 6 and Gambrell still in the lineup. What is wrong with PDB.

That is an infuriating lineup.

 

[WSS11]

How the hell is possible that Bergmann and Yurtaykin are extras in today's practice! Goodrow in top 6 and Gambrell still in the lineup. What is wrong with PDB.

what a f***ing joke. Nepotism at its finest. What did Bergmann do besides be the best forward on the ice these past two games? The vets can float and contribute nothing and if you bust your ass I’ll still bench you. Great message to send to the kids.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

How the hell is possible that Bergmann and Yurtaykin are extras in today's practice! Goodrow in top 6 and Gambrell still in the lineup. What is wrong with PDB.

I could write a book but that is not my strength. Maybe @The Nemesis can help.