2019-20 Roster Thread IV

[Tripod]

Oh look, another day of ****ting on 22 year old Ivan Provorov is under way. Round and round we go.

I hope this is not directed at me but your post was right after mine, so who knows.

I love Provy. He needs to learn his limitations though. Just like with Ghost, sometimes less is more. Same applies to Provy.

We need Provy to be a defensive wet blanket who can smother other teams forwards in our end. I will reference McDonough again with regards to Giroux. Every game, it seemed like G would just not get the scoring chances and RM was always on him. I would love that from Provy. And him having his minutes cut from the PP will help him be fresher for those hard D minutes.

 

[Rebels57]

I hope this is not directed at me but your post was right after mine, so who knows.

I love Provy. He needs to learn his limitations though. Just like with Ghost, sometimes less is more. Same applies to Provy.

We need Provy to be a defensive wet blanket who can smother other teams forwards in our end. I will reference McDonough again with regards to Giroux. Every game, it seemed like G would just not get the scoring chances and RM was always on him. I would love that from Provy. And him having his minutes cut from the PP will help him be fresher for those hard D minutes.

Nah it wasn't directed at you.

I agree with your assesment of what we need Provy to be, and I think he can be that.

 

[deadhead]

I'd put money on Sanheim scoring more than Provorov going forward, but not Myers.

I'd bet on Sanheim over Myers at ES, but not with great confidence.
I'd definitely take Sanheim over Myers on the PP, I think Sanheim can be as good or better than Ghost in that role down the road.

Myers doesn't look to me to be as polished skater or puck handler or passer than Sanheim, he does have a booming slap shot, but his size isn't as valuable scoring for a defenseman as it would be for a forward (i.e. he's not parking in front of the net on a regular basis).

Where Myers has the edge is he can be a dominant defensive force with his size, body control and skating as well as be an above average offensive defensemen - and guys who can do both at a high level are rare.

 

[ItMe]

How about we all just be happy that we have the potential that we do in the defensive end? Holy crap... If any changes on defense are made, it should be focused on upgrading Gudas (Who when not being a bone head, has been solid). Get a better Top 4 veteran back there to help stabilize the pairs (Trade or FA).

 

[Curufinwe]

The argument simply is to have realistic expectations and play the player appropriate to his skill set. Not imaginary expectations one that fan boys decreed to be truth

Yup, the fact is that Couturier just isn't a good enough skater to ever be a top 6 center.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Yup, the fact is that Couturier just isn't a good enough skater to ever be a top 6 center.

I don’t see those pointing out Provy’s flaws as the same situation as all of the Coots naysayers from a few years ago.

And still, no one is saying that Provy isn’t good\great. Just not Norris D that he was anointed as.

 

[Tripod]

I don’t see those pointing out Provy’s flaws as the same situation as all of the Coots naysayers from a few years ago.

And still, no one is saying that Provy isn’t good\great. Just not Norris D that he was anointed as.

But he was anointed, by the misinformed. So was he really anointed?

 

[TCTC]

Provorov will never win the Norris because he's not the kind of defenseman who gets the votes. He will never outscore players like Morgan Rielly.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don’t see those pointing out Provy’s flaws as the same situation as all of the Coots naysayers from a few years ago.

I just think it's too early to say that Provorov will only ever be as good as he's been the last two seasons. If he stays healthy he could be playing for another 15 years.

 

[Laveuglette]

Yeah, defensemen often improve a lot over their 20s. Let Provorov the time.

 

[wankstifier]

I just think it's too early to say that Provorov will only ever be as good as he's been the last two seasons. If he stays healthy he could be playing for another 15 years.

Playmaking and poise with the puck under pressure aren’t developed skills. Even if they are, it’s not worth being patient with Provorov since there are 3 defenseman with better offensive ability who should be getting those development minutes.

 

[magnumpi]

How about we all just be happy that we have the potential that we do in the defensive end? Holy crap... If any changes on defense are made, it should be focused on upgrading Gudas (Who when not being a bone head, has been solid). Get a better Top 4 veteran back there to help stabilize the pairs (Trade or FA).

Agree
I thought that was a no brainer

 

[bobbythebrain]

Provorov will never win the Norris because he's not the kind of defenseman who gets the votes. He will never outscore players like Morgan Rielly.

What? Out produced Reilly in junior by a large margin

Reilly didnt crack 40 points until his 5th year in the NHL. Provy did it 2.

 

[wasup]

Provorov will never win the Norris because he's not the kind of defense man who gets the votes. He will never outscore players like Morgan Rielly.

It's a pet peeve of mine . Everyone thinks a D man has to be offensive to have great worth and i more look at the defensive side , you know the defence in front of the man part .
"D"efence man .

 

[Breeze 44]

If you watched Myers, you saw a player with great raw skills who is clueless at the NHL level.
And it showed at both ends of the ice.

Not what I saw

 

[TCTC]

What? Out produced Reilly in junior by a large margin

Reilly didnt crack 40 points until his 5th year in the NHL. Provy did it 2.

I mean, sure, but Rielly had 72 points this year. That's probably not a sustainable number for him, but I'm not sure we ever see that kind of production from Provorov.

 

[Magua]

Slavin and Lindbolm have never hit 40 points and are superior all-around defensemen to Provorov, albeit with less raw “flashy” skills.

I hate misrepresentative arguments. This discussion isn’t even a discussion because one party doesn’t understand what’s being discussed.

 

[deadhead]

The one thing Provorov has going for him is his work ethic.

When you look at any sport, most top players who weren't "born" elite athletes became top players because of years of dedication to their craft, from training to practice to film study. They usually don't suddenly make a huge jump, rather they incrementally improve all aspects of their game, and one day the fans and media notice that they've become elite. Whether it's Couts or Kawhi.

Provorov has an off the charts work ethic, with the right coaching he should continue to improve well into his mid-20s.

 

[FLYguy3911]

TIL that speaking factually and honestly about a player is “****ting” on them

This happens when people can't construct a counter-argument of their own. It's especially common when opinions or stats conflict with their fantasies. It's much easier to just call someone a hater.

What? Out produced Reilly in junior by a large margin

Reilly didnt crack 40 points until his 5th year in the NHL. Provy did it 2.

Rielly blew his knee out in his draft year and then played his D+1 season with 150 pound, 16 year old Brayden Point and absolutely no one else.

That Moose Jaw team averaged 2.53 goals per game. Provorov's Brandon teams averaged 4.72 and 4.43 goals per game. So nearly 2x the opportunity to pick up points. Not to mention Provy's scoring fell off of a cliff both years in the playoffs. This is similar to the people who said Sanheim wasn't better than him offensively just by comparing draft year and D+1 stats. It's completely ignores context.

I don't think Rielly's true talent level is that of a 72 point guy, but you could always tell he had the skill and the ability to play with the pace necessary to be productive offensively in the NHL.

 

[bobbythebrain]

This happens when people can't construct a counter-argument of their own. It's especially common when opinions or stats conflict with their fantasies. It's much easier to just call someone a hater.


Rielly blew his knee of in his draft year and then played his D+1 season with 150 pound, 16 year old Brayden Point and absolutely no one else.

That Moose Jaw team averaged 2.53 goals per game. Provorov's Brandon teams averaged 4.72 and 4.43 goals per game. So nearly 2x the opportunity to pick up points. Not to mention Provy's scoring fell off of a cliff both years in the playoffs. This is similar to the people who said Sanheim wasn't better than him offensively just by comparing draft year and D+1 stats. It's completely ignores context.

I don't think Rielly's true talent level is that of a 72 point guy, but you could always tell he had the skill and the ability to play with the pace necessary to be productive offensively in the NHL.

My intention wasn't to blast Reilly. Reilly is an exceptionally good player.

But for someone to say Provy will never be as good as him is just wrong IMO. How he played 2 years ago was top tier level. Not to mention that many goals and points without grade A pp time is even more impressive. There's no reason to believe he can't get back to that level and then beyond.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The thing with Suter is all but one season he’s averaged over 3 minutes per game in PP time. His PP production has quite range to it each year but what’s consistent is he’s always in double digits. His worst season in PP/60 was 2.24 in 14-15 which is still better than Provorov’s best season to this point (2.15 in 15-16).

Provorov from a statistic standpoint has been one of the worst PP players in the league his first three years. It’s hard not to improve going forward but how much growth is really there? Couturier will assuredly be brought up but it’s not just playing with better players. His role went from being an offensive facilitator on the perimeter to a complimentary piece in the slot. That option just doesn’t really exist for Provorov. We have a guy in Sanheim who was more productive than what he’s shown to this point under the same shit circumstances & doesn’t even get near the same rope.

 

[deadhead]

I worry more about the team as a whole, than individual players - because how players peform often depends on their role and the teammates they play with, not just their raw talent.

Right now, the Flyers are able to field a complete team going into next season, with a LHV team that will be loaded at forward (thin on defense, except for Schlemko and maybe MacDonald as potential veteran call ups)

JVR - Couts - Giroux
Lindblom - Patrick - Voracek
Farabee - Frost - TK
Raffl - Laughton - Hartman
NAK, Bailey

Provorov - Sanheim
Ghost - Gudas
Morin - Myers
Hagg, Friedman

Now I expect changes, but I see no reason for major moves, especially ones costing their top prospects or #11.
With Hart in goal, this lineup should be good enough for 100 points or so.

lot's of cap room, #41, next year's first, second tier prospects and if you trade for a top 9/top 4 starter, whatever veteran would be demoted, should be enough to add 1-2 solid players.

At some point you have to play your top young prospects and let them learn on the job, that means going with Patrick at 2C, Farabee and Frost, and giving Morin and Myers a starting role. If players struggle, there are other players at LHV or you can trade secondary assets for patches in the winter. Doesn't mean you don't add if the price is right, does mean you don't overpay for a one or two year upgrade.

 

[flyersfromquebec]

If you watched Myers, you saw a player with great raw skills who is clueless at the NHL level.
And it showed at both ends of the ice.

You must be kidding or really wanting to start a conversation with a opinion you don't even believe in just because.

 

[Prongo]

Flyers gonna keep all this cap space for all our restricted free agents and then re-sign them all. Deadhead will still be saying we need to save it until the next round of RFA’s.

We will have 15 million in space for the rest of the franchises history! f*** Panarin. f*** Karlsson. Our own kids will become them one day!!!

f*** Tavares because Patrick will be just as good (what a f***ing joke of a statement).

ROR wouldn’t have been worth the terrible asking price because he’s too expensive and needs PP1 time. Those 77 points wouldn’t have helped this team finish in the top 8 in the east.

You should really stop being dramatic with your hot shitty takes and let go of the costs of the players. We have cap space and two players that are franchise players hitting UFA. You need to try and improve this team by any means. The cap isn’t a problem so we can improve it literally in anyway.

 

[Starat327]

You must be kidding or really wanting to start a conversation with a opinion you don't even believe in just because.

You must be new here.