2019-20 Roster Thread IV

[BringBackHakstol]

He's 22 years old. He is three years away from entering into the beginning of his prime. Making absolute statements about him as a player right now is foolish to put it mildly.

What evidence is there that he will become what people claim he is? He’s anemic on the power play. Just pointing out a guy is young means nothing. You need to flash the ability.

I love the kid, but people are setting themselves up for disappointment and too high of expectations.

 

[flyers0909]

The fact that Provy can’t play the power play should be all the evidence people need that he is not the #1 defensemen people want him to be.

For this team though his PP ability really does not matter. Between Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers we have 3 guys who can successfully play on the PP. If he can be a top pairing guy at ES/SH he fits in perfectly for us.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

For this team though his PP ability really does not matter. Between Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers we have 3 guys who can successfully play on the PP. If he can be a top pairing guy at ES/SH he fits in perfectly for us.

Agree

But it does matter if the Flyers management and staff think he’s that guy. Which to date they have by forcing him into that role. And to a slightly lesser extent also pushing him to be the do it all guy at ES. He’d be better off settling into a more reserved role at ES than the 4th forward\rover he’s been seemingly forcing.

 

[Tripod]

But his style of play is like Doughty and Bourque. His offensive production may be more like Suter granted. Your underestimating his offensive ability and overstating Sanheim's. They both are young and have great potential on the PP but Sanheim wasn't knocking anyone's socks off when he was on the 2nd pp either. That entire unit a) didn't get much of an opportunity b) didn't look good IMO more had to do with Konecny and Patrick not looking comfortable in their roles on that unit. This year will get a better indication imo. Team should be adding some talent up front that should translate into a better 2nd pp unit + Konecny and Patrick should be more comfortable and the coaching will be better. Good problem to have debating that you have 3 dmen that could QB your PP

Provy had 2 PP points this year. Sanheim had 5.

Provy had 127 PP minutes, Sanheim had 84.

Provy produced 1 PP point every 63 minutes
Sanheim produced 1 PP points every 17 minutes

And Provy's other 2 years, he had 139 minutes and 145 on the PP....and had 5 PP points in each season.

Can you not see how more efficient Sanheim was? We don't NEED Provy on the PP with Sanheim here. Let him rest.

 

[Rebels57]

Oh look, another day of shitting on 22 year old Ivan Provorov is under way. Round and round we go.

 

[The Madrigal]

What evidence is there that he will become what people claim he is? He’s anemic on the power play. Just pointing out a guy is young means nothing. You need to flash the ability.

I love the kid, but people are setting themselves up for disappointment and too high of expectations.

So according to you unless Provorov becomes a productive guy on the PP he can't be a number 1 D and he is what he is att 22 years old. Got it

 

[The Madrigal]

Oh look, another day of ****ting on 22 year old Ivan Provorov is under way. Round and round we go.

His age doesn't matter, he needs to flash stuff. That's what I was told.

 

[deadhead]

So according to you unless Provorov becomes a productive guy on the PP he can't be a number 1 D and he is what he is att 22 years old. Got it

Well, almost by definition, PK is as valuable as PP, since you spend a similar time on both units and stopping the other guy from scoring is as valuable as scoring yourself (less sexy, however).

So if Provorov is a top PK guy who plays most of the minutes on that unit, doesn't that make him as valuable as a D-man who is a top PP guy?

 

[TCTC]

Oh look, another day of ****ting on 22 year old Ivan Provorov is under way. Round and round we go.

Some people really seem to have an agenda against him. I can already see him becoming the new whipping boy once MacDonald and Hagg are gone.

 

[Redpath]

Third year defenseman had a down year on a dysfunctional team with two inept coaches. Why does that negate his first two seasons?

You’d think after five years of having the patience mantra rammed down our throats it’d apply to Provorov

 

[magnumpi]

Some people really seem to have an agenda against him. I can already see him becoming the new whipping boy once MacDonald and Hagg are gone.

From what I've observed theres people who are Ghost fans. They have an agenda to elevate Ghost. I think it's because a different poster has criticized Ghost. They don't like that poster and want to prove him wrong.

So now they're bashing provorov in a way to promote ghost.

Not saying everyone who criticizes provorov is doing this

 

[Strawberry Fields]

I guess it would be too simple to like Provy, Ghost, and Sanheim equally.

 

[wankstifier]

Oh look, another day of ****ting on 22 year old Ivan Provorov is under way. Round and round we go.

I don’t see anyone shitting on him. He’s a good defenseman, but clearly not Norris quality. That seems fair to point out, no?

Only time I shit on Provorov is when he’s inexplicably put in the game over Gostisbehere/Sanheim and even Myers when the team needs to generate offense. He should be the 4th option for scoring situations, not the go-to. When he flubs the puck around the line, I absolutely lose my mind. The Flyers have 3 defenseman who can skate and manage the puck around the line as second nature. Provorov looks like an infant giraffe learning to walk every time.

 

[deadhead]

Players have different strengths and weaknesses, players with strengths in every area and few if no weaknesses are HOF candidates.

Provorov is a better defensive player than Ghost, but doesn't have his offensive mojo.
So a good coach uses them differently and in different situations.

Right now, Myers isn't as good offensively as Provorov, talent doesn't equate to production.
A year from now, that may be a very different story.

 

[Curufinwe]

Going back to Suter, his best Norris finish was 2nd in 12-13 when he had 32 (4G, 28A) points in 48 games. Suter was 28 years old.

 

[wankstifier]

Players have different strengths and weaknesses, players with strengths in every area and few if no weaknesses are HOF candidates.

Provorov is a better defensive player than Ghost, but doesn't have his offensive mojo.
So a good coach uses them differently and in different situations.

Right now, Myers isn't as good offensively as Provorov, talent doesn't equate to production.
A year from now, that may be a very different story.

Some players find success with unconventional play. The Flyers have 4 defensemen who lack the propped up profile of an effective blue liner: Sanheim, Myers, Gostisbehere, Gudas. Provorov looks the part of the stereotype and he had a high draft position, so fans have lost their minds with Norris projection.

Minutes = Production

I don’t see the point in deferring to body of work to assess whether Myers is a better offensive player than Provorov. Easier to watch a game to immediately see the difference.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'd put money on Sanheim scoring more than Provorov going forward, but not Myers.

Suter is a very good defenseman. No one should complain at all if he only is as good as Suter.

Looking at the last few years of playoff hockey, defensive depth more so than having the mythical #1 seems more important for success.

The St Louis defense seems like a good model. They have a big three, but the guys under that are solid. Unlike Dallas, who had a huge drop off after their big 3 D.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...ilter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame

 

[Larry44]

Going back to Suter, his best Norris finish was 2nd in 12-13 when he had 32 (4G, 28A) points in 48 games. Suter was 28 years old.

If 'all' Provy can be is a 27 minute per night game-controlling dominant force like Suter or Brad McCrimmon, well, I'LL TAKE IT!

 

[deadhead]

Some players find success with unconventional play. The Flyers have 4 defensemen who lack the propped up profile of an effective blue liner: Sanheim, Myers, Gostisbehere, Gudas. Provorov looks the part of the stereotype and he had a high draft position, so fans have lost their minds with Norris projection.

Minutes = Production

I don’t see the point in deferring to body of work to assess whether Myers is a better offensive player than Provorov. Easier to watch a game to immediately see the difference.

If you watched Myers, you saw a player with great raw skills who is clueless at the NHL level.
And it showed at both ends of the ice.

 

[TCTC]

Going back to Suter, his best Norris finish was 2nd in 12-13 when he had 32 (4G, 28A) points in 48 games. Suter was 28 years old.

He was 3rd in points for defensemen that year. Just more proof that the Norris is all about points and offense.
Players like Suter or Vlasic will never win the Norris trophy, even though they're more than deserving.

 

[wankstifier]

If you watched Myers, you saw a player with great raw skills who is clueless at the NHL level.
And it showed at both ends of the ice.

I saw a player who deserved more playing time than a 3rd line forward. Points come with minutes, especially for defensemen.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Oh look, another day of ****ting on 22 year old Ivan Provorov is under way. Round and round we go.

TIL that speaking factually and honestly about a player is “shitting” on them

 

[BringBackHakstol]

So according to you unless Provorov becomes a productive guy on the PP he can't be a number 1 D and he is what he is att 22 years old. Got it

The argument simply is to have realistic expectations and play the player appropriate to his skill set. Not imaginary expectations one that fan boys decreed to be truth

 

[wankstifier]

...but not Myers.

Why’s that?

If 'all' Provy can be is a 27 minute per night game-controlling dominant force like Suter or Brad McCrimmon, well, I'LL TAKE IT!

There’s no reason for Provorov to be playing that much.

 

[wasup]

I have not seen Striker on here in a while . He must have done poorly on his exams and his mom pulled his internet privileges . Oh my!!!