2018/2019 Lineup Thread

[Falco Lombardi]

Potential hot take alert:

It’s okay, if not outright good, for Kyrou to spend time in the AHL

 

[bleedblue1223]

Potential hot take alert:

It’s okay, if not outright good, for Kyrou to spend time in the AHL

Yeah. Let him actually earn a spot. If he's good enough to beat out proven talent, fantastic. We will have injuries at some point, so even if he just misses, he'll see time eventually. It's not like signing Maroon means we never see Kyrou.

 

[BlueDream]

Yep, just turned 20 two months ago. We have a lot of time with him.

Loving our depth.

It's crazy to think we entered last season with Sobotka on the 2nd line and now we're talking about putting Thomas or even Fabbri on the 4th...

 

[MissouriMook]

Even if the Maroon signing comes to fruition, there is literally no point in hand-wringing about the forward group and the crowded Top 9. This is a great problem to have, as long as the cap constraints aren't causing us to struggle to find the money to address other needs, which is not the case here. There is plenty of room to figure this out, even if it means moving a guy like Gunnarsson for pennies on the dollar.

The only reason I think we should ever be concerned over this issue is if the best 12 forwards at the time aren't in the lineup. If Kyrou gets sent to SA despite playing well and producing, then we can be concerned. If a guy is constantly being shoe-horned into the lineup despite not producing and being a drag on other things like speed, possession and defensive responsibility, then be concerned. Otherwise, if none of these negative things are happening, just enjoy the ride. We should have one of the deepest teams in our franchise's history and, with players meeting expectations up and down the lineup, we should be in for an entertaining season.

 

[ezcreepin]

Not saying those 2 guarantee success, just objecting to silly notion that they guarantee early exit.

I agree with you, just seemed like you were inferring that having them in the lineup meant we would likely not exit in the first round.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Yeah. Let him actually earn a spot. If he's good enough to beat out proven talent, fantastic. We will have injuries at some point, so even if he just misses, he'll see time eventually. It's not like signing Maroon means we never see Kyrou.

I agree that Kyrou is likely to see time in the NHL anyway due to injuries, but I don't think it's fair to imply he has an honest shot to earn a spot on the team out of camp at this point. It's hard to earn a spot if there's no spot available to earn.

I mean, I'd take Kyrou on my hockey team over Thorburn and Sundqvist immediately, sight unseen in the AHL...but there's almost zero chance that the Blues are going to keep Kyrou up to put him on the bench, so being more talented than those guys really isn't the issue. The Blues aren't going to be playing Kyrou on the 4th line, either, so he's not really in the competition for those roster spots unless the Blues are truly interested in rolling 4 scoring lines. That would be new for them, and I tend to heavily doubt it myself until I see it in practice.

For guys like Maroon and Perron, the Blues aren't the sort of organization to sign them to discount deals only to turn around and bench/deal them immediately, so those spots likely aren't truly up for grabs this year.

He's pretty much competing directly against Thomas for a roster spot, and that competition is stacked against him as well given that the Blues would much rather have Kyrou in the AHL next season than Thomas in the OHL.

You can make the argument that giving one's prospects a "fair" shot to make the team out of camp isn't necessarily in the team's best interests, and I get that...maybe even agree to an extent. I just wouldn't couple that sort of deck stacking with rhetoric that it's an open competition for him in camp, he'll get what he earns, etc. There's a very real possibility that Kyrou earns a spot in camp by outplaying a number of other guys, but doesn't get it anyway.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I agree that Kyrou is likely to see time in the NHL anyway due to injuries, but I don't think it's fair to imply he has an honest shot to earn a spot on the team out of camp at this point. It's hard to earn a spot if there's no spot available to earn.

I mean, I'd take Kyrou on my hockey team over Thorburn and Sundqvist immediately, sight unseen in the AHL...but there's almost zero chance that the Blues are going to keep Kyrou up to put him on the bench, so being more talented than those guys really isn't the issue. The Blues aren't going to be playing Kyrou on the 4th line, either, so he's not really in the competition for those roster spots unless the Blues are truly interested in rolling 4 scoring lines. That would be new for them, and I tend to heavily doubt it myself until I see it in practice.

For guys like Maroon and Perron, the Blues aren't the sort of organization to sign them to discount deals only to turn around and bench/deal them immediately, so those spots likely aren't truly up for grabs this year.

He's pretty much competing directly against Thomas for a roster spot, and that competition is stacked against him as well given that the Blues would much rather have Kyrou in the AHL next season than Thomas in the OHL.

You can make the argument that giving one's prospects a "fair" shot to make the team out of camp isn't necessarily in the team's best interests, and I get that...maybe even agree to an extent. I just wouldn't couple that sort of deck stacking with rhetoric that it's an open competition for him in camp, he'll get what he earns, etc. There's a very real possibility that Kyrou earns a spot in camp by outplaying a number of other guys, but doesn't get it anyway.

I agree, his chances would be extremely slim, but if he is absolutely lights out in pre-season, then I think he'd get a few games at the start to see if it transfers to the regular season. He'd have to be on another level though to get that chance. I'd say we are giving him a shot, but not really an honest shot. If he is just one of the best 12 out there, then he won't be in the starting lineup on opening night.

Thomas has the additional luxury of being a 2-way player, so you could realistically see him starting on the 4th like Schwartz did to work on the little things that makes a quality 2-way player. Kyrou would need quality offensive minutes, and there just aren't many available right now.

One of the more realistic scenarios would be where Fabbri just doesn't look right, and Kyrou looks like one the of the 6 best forwards. I could maybe see them easing Fabbri in, and at the same time, seeing if Kyrou is ready. Even that isn't something that I would consider realistic.

 

[matt trick]

As a Sharks fan, the blues look excellent- Armstrong has had a killer offseason! Hope it works out as well as it looks on paper!

 

[Blueston]

I agree that Kyrou is likely to see time in the NHL anyway due to injuries, but I don't think it's fair to imply he has an honest shot to earn a spot on the team out of camp at this point. It's hard to earn a spot if there's no spot available to earn.

I mean, I'd take Kyrou on my hockey team over Thorburn and Sundqvist immediately, sight unseen in the AHL...but there's almost zero chance that the Blues are going to keep Kyrou up to put him on the bench, so being more talented than those guys really isn't the issue. The Blues aren't going to be playing Kyrou on the 4th line, either, so he's not really in the competition for those roster spots unless the Blues are truly interested in rolling 4 scoring lines. That would be new for them, and I tend to heavily doubt it myself until I see it in practice.

For guys like Maroon and Perron, the Blues aren't the sort of organization to sign them to discount deals only to turn around and bench/deal them immediately, so those spots likely aren't truly up for grabs this year.

He's pretty much competing directly against Thomas for a roster spot, and that competition is stacked against him as well given that the Blues would much rather have Kyrou in the AHL next season than Thomas in the OHL.

You can make the argument that giving one's prospects a "fair" shot to make the team out of camp isn't necessarily in the team's best interests, and I get that...maybe even agree to an extent. I just wouldn't couple that sort of deck stacking with rhetoric that it's an open competition for him in camp, he'll get what he earns, etc. There's a very real possibility that Kyrou earns a spot in camp by outplaying a number of other guys, but doesn't get it anyway.

As it stands now, looks like we aren't going to have traditional 4th line so he could slot pretty much anywhere. If everyone is healthy, he would only have to beat out 2 of Thomas, Barbashev, Jaskin, and Soshnikov if my math is right.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Schwartz-Schenn-Perron
Fabbri-ROR-Tarasenko
Steen-Thomas-Bozak
Maroon-Barbashev-Kyrou
(Sosh/Jaskin)

Edmundson-Pietrangelo
Dunn-Parayko
Bortuzzo-Schmaltz
(Bou/Gunner one starts season on IR)

Allen
Johnson

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

So, say Kyrou makes the team, and Tarasenko finds solid chemistry with Bozak. We could run our lines as 1A/B/C and then a bottom six line. I’d go as a base of 14/14/14/10 and have the last 8 minutes get divided into special teams and play that game.

Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-O’Reilly-Perron
Fabbri-Bozak-Tarasenko
Maroon-Thomas-Sosh/Barbie/Jaskin

 

[Novacain]

I honestly find it really weird so many people don't seem to be on board with the 4 scoring line approach literally every move this off-season has seemed to point too. Vegas used that for much of the playoffs and parts of the season with a significantly worse forward group, and won the West with it. And unlike Vegas, our defensemen aren't a collection of guys that you are waiting for it to all fall apart with.

Also, may I note again, the Blues added no typical 4th line players this off-season. If we wanted to run a traditional 4th line, we could have made an addition there to play it safe. Instead we brought in 4 traditional top 9 forwards, to go with 5 established ones, that fills us up on the Left Side and Center (assuming Thomas is cracking the line), then gives us Tarasenko, Perron, and whoever wants teh final 2 RW spots bad enough between Soshnikov, Kyrou, Barbashev, and Jaskin.

Everything is pointing in that direction. We need to stop acting like we aren't.

 

[EastonBlues22]

As it stands now, looks like we aren't going to have traditional 4th line so he could slot pretty much anywhere. If everyone is healthy, he would only have to beat out 2 of Thomas, Barbashev, Jaskin, and Soshnikov if my math is right.

The parts don't look all that interchangeable to me. I don't think playing Thomas on the 4th line is a particularly good idea, personally, and I definitely don't think that there's any chance of Thomas and Kyrou playing on the same line together.

Maroon could find time on a higher line, but all the rest of Barbashev/Sanford/Jaskin/Soshnikov look to be a fairly significant step below everyone above them. I don't see the rest of them being mixed in on higher lines until injuries demand it, and I don't think a mix of those players on a line to themselves will be viewed as interchangeable in usage with the top 3 lines. Just my opinion.

Trying to turn a Maroon - Barbashev/Sanford line into a scoring threat by adding Kyrou on the right would be kind of wild. It could be an option in theory, but it doesn't seem like the sort of thing the Blues would actually attempt to me.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I honestly find it really weird so many people don't seem to be on board with the 4 scoring line approach literally every move this off-season has seemed to point too. Vegas used that for much of the playoffs and parts of the season with a significantly worse forward group, and won the West with it. And unlike Vegas, our defensemen aren't a collection of guys that you are waiting for it to all fall apart with.

Also, may I note again, the Blues added no typical 4th line players this off-season. If we wanted to run a traditional 4th line, we could have made an addition there to play it safe. Instead we brought in 4 traditional top 9 forwards, to go with 5 established ones, that fills us up on the Left Side and Center (assuming Thomas is cracking the line), then gives us Tarasenko, Perron, and whoever wants teh final 2 RW spots bad enough between Soshnikov, Kyrou, Barbashev, and Jaskin.

Everything is pointing in that direction. We need to stop acting like we aren't.

Vegas didn't have 4 scoring lines, unless the definition of a scoring line is so relaxed that it basically ceases to have meaning.

The modern game is demanding that 4th lines can't be the talent-less plugs that they could be in the past, but that doesn't mean that they're "scoring lines," or even that they'll simply be rolled like any other line.

 

[Novacain]

Vegas didn't have 4 scoring lines, unless the definition of a scoring line is so relaxed that it basically ceases to have meaning.

The modern game is demanding that 4th lines can't be the talent-less plugs that they could be in the past, but that doesn't mean that they're "scoring lines," or even that they'll simply be rolled like any other line.

But why wouldn't the "modern game" say you eventually don't even need a traditional 4th line at all when you can have 4 lines that are legitimate threats to score? We have 4 top 9 Left Wings and Centers ready to go, right now. Schwartz-Steen-Fabbri-Maroon, Schenn-O'Reilly-Bozak-Thomas. They are there. And on the RW we have Tarasenko-Perron-???-???. And we have Kyrou, Jaskin, Soshnikov, and Barbashev competing for those spots. Why exactly WOULDN'T we try to run 4 scoring lines, thus always having the other team reluctant to put the 4th line out because they would always be at a disadvantage.

Some of you people think the reason why teams run 4th lines like they do in modern times is because that's how it's done. But it's generally done because most teams can't find a way to field 4 lines that can score at once, have a decent defense, and fit it all under the cap. We've done that. Don't run away from an advantage that is borderline completely unique to us.

 

[ManyIdeas]

Also, may I note again, the Blues added no typical 4th line players this off-season.

Well, Jordan Nolan

 

[Novacain]

Well, Jordan Nolan

2-Way contract my man. No way he makes the team on a 2-way deal when we already have Sosh, Jaskin, Thorburn, and Sunqvist on 1 ways. We are already gonna have to pass 2 of them through waivers.

 

[ManyIdeas]

2-Way contract my man. No way he makes the team on a 2-way deal when we already have Sosh, Jaskin, Thorburn, and Sunqvist on 1 ways. We are already gonna have to pass 2 of them through waivers.

Oh without a doubt, just messing with you.

And I definitely agree about the 4 scoring lines to be ran for at least a period of time. If it doesn't work, then do what you have to do and have Jaskin/Sosh be the defensive 4th line along with a center or whatever.

 

[EastonBlues22]

But why wouldn't the "modern game" say you eventually don't even need a traditional 4th line at all when you can have 4 lines that are legitimate threats to score? We have 4 top 9 Left Wings and Centers ready to go, right now. Schwartz-Steen-Fabbri-Maroon, Schenn-O'Reilly-Bozak-Thomas. They are there. And on the RW we have Tarasenko-Perron-???-???. And we have Kyrou, Jaskin, Soshnikov, and Barbashev competing for those spots. Why exactly WOULDN'T we try to run 4 scoring lines, thus always having the other team reluctant to put the 4th line out because they would always be at a disadvantage.

Some of you people think the reason why teams run 4th lines like they do in modern times is because that's how it's done. But it's generally done because most teams can't find a way to field 4 lines that can score at once, have a decent defense, and fit it all under the cap. We've done that. Don't run away from an advantage that is borderline completely unique to us.

Who's running away from anything? The guys on the roster are going to play regardless of what they're called by us or what we think their "roles" are.

I just think it's silly to call them a scoring line if a reasonable expectation for their offensive production struggles to even hit a third line level, and I think it's unlikely that the Blues are going to simply roll 4 lines when one of them is so obviously inferior to the rest of them.

If you are going to use 3 lines more than the 4th, and that 4th line isn't likely to score at a 3rd line level, then it seems to me that you have a 4th line. It might not be a "traditional" one, but it's not a "scoring" line, either, and there's no concrete reason at this moment to believe that the Blues are going to view it or deploy it that way. It's possible, sure, but at the moment it seems completely speculative to me.

 

[Novacain]

Who's running away from anything? The guys on the roster are going to play.

I just think it's silly to call them a scoring line if a reasonable expectation for their offensive production struggles to even hit a third liner's level, and I think it's unlikely that the Blues are going to simply roll 4 lines when one of them is so obviously inferior to the rest of them.

If you are going to use 3 lines more than the 4th, and that 4th line isn't likely to score at a 3rd line level, then it seems to me that you have a 4th line. It might not be a "traditional" one, but it's not a "scoring" line, either, and there's no concrete reason at this moment to believe that the Blues are going to view it or deploy it that way. It's possible, sure, but at the moment it seems completely speculative to me.

Schwartz-Schenn-Perron
Maroon-Bozak-Tarasenko
Fabbri-O'Reilly-Barbashev
Steen-Thomas-Soshnikov

Which of those lines don't produce like a 3rd line to you? Let's also consider you could potentially bump one of Barbie or Sosh of for Kyrou as well.

 

[Celtic Note]

Schwartz-Schenn-Perron
Maroon-Bozak-Tarasenko
Fabbri-O'Reilly-Barbashev
Steen-Thomas-Soshnikov

Which of those lines don't produce like a 3rd line to you? Let's also consider you could potentially bump one of Barbie or Sosh of for Kyrou as well.

I believe Easton is saying there are not enough minutes to keep everyone’s scoring up. To me a scoring line has multiple players puttin up over 40 points. Is our line with the 4th most minutes going to pull that off?

 

[Novacain]

I believe Easton is saying there are not enough minutes to keep everyone’s scoring up.

My counter argument is that's bull. You use the 3rd and 4th line about an equal stretch of time. There isn't one "only get 10 minutes a night" line in this group. It might lead to less playing time for some of our top line guys, but it also means they have a better chance of staying fresh later into the season.

Would maybe our top lines scoring come down a minor bit from having less ice time? Sure. but running our lines closer to 17-16-14-13 a night compared to last year were it was 19-18-11-10 seems pretty darn doable, and could lead to stronger third periods as teams who don't have that depth get broken down against fresher legs.

 

[The Note]

Fabbri-ROR-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Perron
Steen-Thomas-Bozak
Maroon-Barbashev-Jaskin

That’s how I hope it shakes out.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Schwartz-Schenn-Perron
Maroon-Bozak-Tarasenko
Fabbri-O'Reilly-Barbashev
Steen-Thomas-Soshnikov

Which of those lines don't produce like a 3rd line to you? Let's also consider you could potentially bump one of Barbie or Sosh of for Kyrou as well.

Were you one of those guys who thought the Blues were better off with Sobotka on the first line last year instead of the third? Because this is the same sort of idea, except you're doing it with with two groups of top six quality players instead of one and the guys you're moving up haven't shown the ability to produce at even at Sobotka's level. And that's assuming we're getting the 40 point version of Maroon instead of the 20 point version.

Personally, I don't see the point of putting clearly inferior players on higher lines and playing your best players fewer minutes when you can roll 3 much higher quality lines without doing that.

You can modestly expect the top three lines to play 52 minutes a game if you want them to (18 minutes for the most used line, and 17 minutes for the other two)...and you can probably stretch that even more if you want. If your position is that the Blues are a better team having guys like Barbashev and Soshnikov play closer to 15 minutes a game than 10 minutes, and about as much as you're playing someone like Steen, then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree and see which way the Blues ultimately choose to go.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

So,

do we trade Barbashev+Blais+Gunnarsson+2nd for a year of Pacioretty @ 50% Bergevin special, or do we wait until the TDL and grab Panarin for Kostin+Barbashev+Gunnarsson+'19 2nd+conditional '20 1st?

Pacioretty O'Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Fabbri
Steen Bozak Perron
Maroon Thomas Soshnikov

-OR-

Panarin O'Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Kyrou
Steen Bozak Perron
Maroon Thomas Fabbri