2018-19 Roster talk; Part two

[Magua]

I think Hagg has probably been fine. It's a little difficult to give him a pass for how bad the PK is given that's such a large part of his job, but if you project him into a universe where the Flyers PK strategy is actually based on trying to stop people, he's probably decent in that role.

Not sure about that one. You're saying an attack-based PK -- centered on skating, aggressive instinctual decisions, quick reads -- is Hagg's forte? I think the PK as is -- centered on passiveness and shot blocking -- probably plays more to his strengths. Like that 3v5 PK against Nashville. He's in his element there.

 

[BritainStix]

When we get a new coach in place and roll Hagg as a 5th/6th defenseman, can we all stop bitching about him then??

The guy is playing above his proper usage and isnt even playing badly. He's been fairly solid all year.

 

[Audible Velvet]

I'm afraid Hagg's trade value may not get higher. Get on it, Chuck!
He'd be the right behind Simmonds on my short list if I was GM. There's got to be someone out there that has an inflated perception of his on ice value.

 

[Rebels57]

When we get a new coach in place and roll Hagg as a 5th/6th defenseman, can we all stop *****ing about him then??

The guy is playing above his proper usage and isnt even playing badly. He's been fairly solid all year.

He is pretty low on my list of concerns this year. Last year he was much higher.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Hagg is fine if he is your #6 defenseman. Most teams around the league have a guy like him as the 6.
But I think he is moved out when Myers and Morin make the jump for good

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hagg is a 6th dman. He really doesn't prevent a damned thing on defense. There are worse out there, who prevent nothing and also actively generate offense against at a far higher rate than him. Say...MacDonald.

 

[RonHextall27]

Both of them are useless coming out of the dzone. Smash it off the wall and hope for a tip in to negate the icing.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Eh, whipping boys get whipped & supposed “good” players routinely get their bad plays ignored or excused.

It’s ironic, since one should expect more out of the ones being paid more and/or are hyped more.

Hagg, doesn’t play the PP but has as many points as Patrick, Lindblom, Provorov, & Sanheim.
More than Gudas. 2nd on the team in +/- so he hasn’t been a liability on the scoresheet. Only 4 pts fewer than Ghost. Making $1.15M. What more can you
Possibly expect for a $1.15M defenseman on his non-rookie contract?

People have to step away from their Corsi infatuation & the selective way they choose to value it or ignore it.

Laughton got raves in the playoffs for his “possession driving”; same Corsi this season as Lehtera & Hagg but not a peep. Patrick, same thing; bottom 5 Corsi, but his is ignored or excused while it matters for others. Provorov’s has always been below 50, close to Hagg’s this season; also ignored. When Weise was top 5 on the team 2 seasons ago no one praised his play driving; but when Sanheim posted a similar Corsi in a non-major role last year & early this season, it’s apparently evidence he should’ve been playing over 20 minutes a game. When Vorobyev posts a 37 Corsi in 7 games & gets his playing time cut, however, Hakstol is a moron.

So much cognitive dissonance.

 

[Magua]

Eh, whipping boys get whipped & supposed “good” players routinely get their bad plays ignored or excused.

It’s ironic, since one should expect more out of the ones being paid more and/or are hyped more.

Hagg, doesn’t play the PP but has as many points as Patrick, Lindblom, Provorov, & Sanheim.
More than Gudas. 2nd on the team in +/- so he hasn’t been a liability on the scoresheet. Only 4 pts fewer than Ghost. Making $1.15M. What more can you
Possibly expect for a $1.15M defenseman on his non-rookie contract?

People have to step away from their Corsi infatuation & the selective way they choose to value it or ignore it.

Laughton got raves in the playoffs for his “possession driving”; same Corsi this season as Lehtera & Hagg but not a peep. Patrick, same thing; bottom 5 Corsi, but his is ignored or excused while it matters for others. Provorov’s has always been below 50, close to Hagg’s this season; also ignored. When Weise was top 5 on the team 2 seasons ago no one praised his play driving; but when Sanheim posted a similar Corsi in a non-major role last year & early this season, it’s apparently evidence he should’ve been playing over 20 minutes a game. When Vorobyev posts a 37 Corsi in 7 games & gets his playing time cut, however, Hakstol is a moron.

So much cognitive dissonance.

Care to provide xGF data and not just Corsi? Since you're so vocal on hating Corsi and all, it would make sense to use something more illustrative. Or maybe passing data to chart individual creating. How about heat maps? Surely you would want to seek out more sophisticated data if you see failings in shot metrics, no? That is unless you don't want to bear witness to your own cognitive dissonance.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Care to provide xGF data and not just Corsi? Since you're so vocal on hating Corsi and all, it would make sense to use something more illustrative. Or maybe passing data to chart individual creating. How about heat maps? Surely you would want to seek out more sophisticated data if you see failings in shot metrics, no? That is unless you don't want to bear witness to your own cognitive dissonance.

I don’t think Corsi is utterly worthless. I just think it’s insanely overrated. I think xGF is better, but again it’s thrown around like a definitive player rating when it’s quite flawed.

I spent a lot of my youth reading about horse racing & pro sports predictive models & running spreadsheets. It’s fun, but you’re still trying to distill things that have a zillion factors into a few numbers. The human brain is a pattern-seeking device, and it is appealing to have a definitive mathematical order for things. But there are so many events & factors that go into a hockey player’s value that it’s a folly to believe a stat like xGF, which involves subjectivity, to begin with, is a definitive player evaluation method. Useful with a grain of salt, but pretty f’ing far by perfect, to paraphrase Marsellus Wallace.

Now, the rules in basketball lend it to be a bit more “hackable” strategically through advanced stats. Specifically because of 3 point shots & the ease of getting to the goal if the defense stretches itself to guard distance shots. With hockey, efforts to create equivalent shot metrics are murky at best.

 

[baudib1]

I think there's a fair argument to be made that Corsi doesn't properly evaluate people like Hagg but it's still a stretch to get him into "good" territory. He's a reasonable No. 6 defenseman who should probably get 15-17 minutes a night.

A lot of what has made him not godawful this year though can largely be attributed to dumb luck on offense, although I do think his game in the offensive zone has been quite a bit better this year.

Similarly, I think a lot of Provorov's problems this year is mostly due to terrible luck in the defensive zone and nothing to do with mental lapses or his stick being shorter.

 

[Curufinwe]

I pointed out Laughton’s poor possession numbers numerous times early this season when the media kept referring to him as a “bright spot”.

on HB someone wanted him to replace Couturier as the 1C in October.

Vorobyevs sample size is tiny. You may as well say Morin’s Corsi proved he’s a top pairing dman in his two games last year.

Philadelphia Flyers- Possession - 2017 - Puckbase

As for Sanheim and Weise, if you can’t tell which one of them is driving play on their pairing/line and which one is a passenger who depends on their teammates to carry the play, you should really switch to following another sport, any other sport.

 

[KrazyKat]

Next Year!

Trade for Quick.
Sign Panarin.
Move JVR to RW.





Panarin—Giroux—Konecny
Frost—Couturier—Voracek
Lindblom—Patrick—Van Reimsdyk
Laughton—Vorobyev—Aubé Kubel

Provorov—Sanheim
Morin—Gostisbehere
Hagg—Myers
Folin

Quick
Hart

 

[tictactoe]

Next Year!

Trade for Quick.
Sign Panarin.
Move JVR to RW.





Panarin—Giroux—Konecny
Frost—Couturier—Voracek
Lindblom—Patrick—Van Reimsdyk
Laughton—Vorobyev—Aubé Kubel

Provorov—Sanheim
Morin—Gostisbehere
Hagg—Myers
Folin

Quick
Hart

lol.... is that all?

 

[KrazyKat]

lol.... is that all?

well who would you take out? and who would you replace them with. Vorobyev + Frost + Panarin, being added to our current group. Is A LOT.
Quick/Hart to solidify our goaltending.

Also Myers and Morin.


what do you mean "IS THAT ALL" if anything would be a dream come true.

 

[Flyers Faithful]

Contenders - CBJ NYI LA Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[baudib1]

Contenders - CBJ NYI LA Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Sign me up.

 

[Phillyfan28]

well who would you take out? and who would you replace them with. Vorobyev + Frost + Panarin, being added to our current group. Is A LOT.
Quick/Hart to solidify our goaltending.

Also Myers and Morin.


what do you mean "IS THAT ALL" if anything would be a dream come true.

It was sarcasm bro

 

[dingbathero]

Hagg used as a 5/6 is where he should be - his (teams) struggles on the PK are just that, team coached that way.

Hagg has an issue where he is trying to split his game.

Be a more offensive minded player.

Be a more defensive minded player.

Would be better used if he had a few less defensive zone starts too. He is 23.

I like Hagg when he is focused, he lacks that tho for a full game.

 

[1865]

When we get a new coach in place and roll Hagg as a 5th/6th defenseman, can we all stop *****ing about him then??

The guy is playing above his proper usage and isnt even playing badly. He's been fairly solid all year.

He's the whipping guy this year. Quickly realising this fanbase has to have at least a couple at any one time.

He's a decent, cheap bottom line defenseman. He's better than Mac, that's for sure.

 

[1865]

Contenders - CBJ NYI LA Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I think Sanheim will sign for less than $4.5m personally, but i'd happily lock him up for that for 8 years if i can.

I also think we can get a LOT more for Voracek than a struggling kid and UFA rights.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

There is no way to justify the Flyers trading a 1st for Quick on his current contract.

If you think it's worthwhile to discuss acquiring him, ok sure, even if I don't agree. But not at that cost. Not even close to that cost.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I can't imagine he's going to command that. LA might have initially asked for that, but no way they get it. Like Jojo stated ^^ on that contract, in this day and age, with his injuries?

For a lower price? Maybe, as I've always been a fan, but the last thing we need is another injury prone goalie.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Get Myers up here! What a game last night.

 

[lancer247]

Hagg is a 6th dman. He really doesn't prevent a damned thing on defense. There are worse out there, who prevent nothing and also actively generate offense against at a far higher rate than him. Say...MacDonald.

Hopefully, they are actively shopping while his value is probably at its highest as others have said.
They should be working Myers into the lineup now.