2018-19 Roster talk; Part two

[LegionOfDoom91]

If LA can ditch Quick’s contract on someone with little consequence they’re likely happy.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Should we be concerned Goulbourne get called up again after his 4 goals in the last 2 games or was that all Hexy last time?

Better call up choices than him.

 

[Prongo]

That was Hexy.

 

[Prongo]

When is the roster freeze over?

 

[Psuhockey]

When is the roster freeze over?

Tomorrow I think

 

[FlyTimmo]

When is the roster freeze over?

First thing tomorrow.

 

[flyers0909]

The problem with Hagg is that his puck skills are non-existent. He has no patience or vision with the puck in the D-zone, it's always a grenade and his first choice is to get it out as soon as possible. I actually think he's doing a good job this year of joining the rush and getting open for decent looks, his shot just isn't all that great. He's getting a bit lucky so his point numbers should come down a bit but it's totally fine for a 3rd pairing guy. I think he'll be decently effective once he starts (if it ever happens) playing against lesser competition and not getting T4 ice time.

 

[baudib1]

It's Simmonds for Quick.

 

[mja]

The problem with Hagg is that his puck skills are non-existent. He has no patience or vision with the puck in the D-zone, it's always a grenade and his first choice is to get it out as soon as possible.

This, and he also doesn't process the game quickly enough. He's been better this year, but he plays such a passive reactive game that I have trouble understanding what people see in him. Or maybe I don't, that passive reactive game is what too many people confuse for good defense.

I'd love to package Hagg & Simmonds together for an upgrade at either of their positions, but that seems doubtful.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This, and he also doesn't process the game quickly enough. He's been better this year, but he plays such a passive reactive game that I have trouble understanding what people see in him. Or maybe I don't, that passive reactive game is what too many people confuse for good defense.

I'd love to package Hagg & Simmonds together for an upgrade at either of their positions, but that seems doubtful.

Some people simply see a $1.15m cap hit on D that most teams would like to have at that price. Saying someone doesn’t stink for his cap hit isn’t tantamount to saying he’s a great defenseman. It’s just an acknowledgment that it’s hard to find $1.15m defensemen around the NHL doing better than Hagg, & every team needs them.

 

[mja]

Some people simply see a $1.15m cap hit on D that most teams would like to have at that price. Saying someone doesn’t stink for his cap hit isn’t tantamount to saying he’s a great defenseman. It’s just an acknowledgment that it’s hard to find $1.15m defensemen around the NHL doing better than Hagg, & every team needs them.

He doesn't actually add anything that helps you win hockey games, and we have a better player on a cheaper contract tearing up the minors, and he's a righty to boot. It's not even like his contract is great value, it's just not bad value, and I don't know if you've noticed but we aren't hurting for cap space. It's nonsensical.

He's not the weakest link, but he will be eventually if we move in the right direction.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's Simmonds for Quick.

That it's not the Flyers' pick is definitely an important point, but is there another reason this distinction matters? Simmonds is ostensibly going elsewhere as LA would have no interest, so you would be choosing Quick over what goes to LA -- a 1st.

Then you're also adding Strome (I think?), but that's immaterial to the point. There's no deal I would make where Strome going out changes my mind anyway.

 

[BritainStix]

He doesn't actually add anything that helps you win hockey games, and we have a better player on a cheaper contract tearing up the minors, and he's a righty to boot. It's not even like his contract is great value, it's just not bad value, and I don't know if you've noticed but we aren't hurting for cap space. It's nonsensical.

He's not the weakest link, but he will be eventually if we move in the right direction.

What kind of nonsensical post is this?

He played a monster role in the 5-3 PK. He's scored a few goals, he's been pretty damn good in his own end. As far as I can see he's a +7 on the year.

For a guy doing nothing to help his team win games, it must be really hard to achieve that pedestal you are putting players on.

 

[baudib1]

That it's not the Flyers' pick is definitely an important point, but is there another reason this distinction matters? Simmonds is ostensibly going elsewhere as LA would have no interest, so you would be choosing Quick over what goes to LA -- a 1st.

Then you're also adding Strome (I think?), but that's immaterial to the point. There's no deal I would make where Strome going out changes my mind anyway.

It's not like these deals are happening so it's really not useful to speculate or argue about it. Columbus isn't trading Bjorkstrand to us and the Flyers likely wouldn't value him over 11 internal candidates they have to play 3RW next year anyway.

 

[Prongo]

Playing better but literally made no dent in the playoff race. I do believe moves are coming but not just trades for the sake of trades. More in the line of trades that help now and in the future. St Louis is a great spot to shop. This team has a lot to address. Need to start now and then more in the off season.

 

[mja]

What kind of nonsensical post is this?

He played a monster role in the 5-3 PK. He's scored a few goals, he's been pretty damn good in his own end. As far as I can see he's a +7 on the year.

For a guy doing nothing to help his team win games, it must be really hard to achieve that pedestal you are putting players on.

He was definitely great on that 5-3 PK, playing to his strengths of just getting in the way of the shooter. The offense is just him being lucky. And he's NOT GOOD in his own end. I HATE the way he plays defense. HATE it. HATE, HATE, HATE it.

It's just him running around his own end a step behind the offense pinning guys to the wall whenever he can catch them but never recovering the puck, or if he does, unable to skate or pass it out. It's all passive reactive stuff that allows him to post gaudy hit and blocked shot totals and people confuse that for good defense. The next time he anticipates a play like Ghost does regularly and breaks it up before it even starts (and then sends the puck the other way for a scoring chance) will be the first time he's ever done it. He's been better this year and frankly he's been tolerable, but last year he was my least favorite player on a team that included Brandon freaking Manning.

Far from having some high pedestal, I think too many people have ridiculously low expectations of what an NHL player should be able to accomplish on the ice.

 

[baudib1]

Playing better but literally made no dent in the playoff race. I do believe moves are coming but not just trades for the sake of trades. More in the line of trades that help now and in the future. St Louis is a great spot to shop. This team has a lot to address. Need to start now and then more in the off season.

We only have to make up 1 point every other week to get in.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think there's an interesting, nuanced discussion to be had about what actually defines good in the defensive zone.

Take Nolan Patrick coming out as an example. There were some that pegged him as a negative in Brandon there, but I found his positioning and overall effectiveness to be generally solid. What he didn't do was sprint around creating havoc. A lot of that type of defensive zone work is more showy than effective.

RE: The playoffs

Figure you need around 97ish Points for a good shot. That would require ~63 Points in 47 Games.

 

[Prongo]

We only have to make up 1 point every other week to get in.

Sounds simple enough but with the current points system you need to win 4-5 in a row a few times to make a dent. Then you definitely need to win against your division.

Now impossible but improbable

 

[Here4ThaLids]

Care to provide xGF data and not just Corsi? Since you're so vocal on hating Corsi and all, it would make sense to use something more illustrative. Or maybe passing data to chart individual creating. How about heat maps? Surely you would want to seek out more sophisticated data if you see failings in shot metrics, no? That is unless you don't want to bear witness to your own cognitive dissonance.

 

[mja]

I think there's an interesting, nuanced discussion to be had about what actually defines good in the defensive zone.

Take Nolan Patrick coming out as an example. There were some that pegged him as a negative in Brandon there, but I found his positioning and overall effectiveness to be generally solid. What he didn't do was sprint around creating havoc. A lot of that type of defensive zone work is more showy than effective.

My take: Good defense should almost be invisible. It should happen so quickly, through good positioning and heady play, that you'd miss it if you weren't paying attention very closely. It shouldn't even look like you're defending, because the defending part should last as short amount of time as possible.

 

[Psuhockey]

We only have to make up 1 point every other week to get in.

Teams more than 4 pts out on November 1st have about a 90% chance of missing the playoffs. That’s how hard it is to make up points. The Flyers have done it multiple times but how many more times will they be able to do it?

The other thing that is working against the Flyers is that they rarely win games easy. Even the last few were one goal games. It’s hard to pick up huge chunks of points if you have to grind out wins all the time. Those one goal games are easy to swing the other way.

 

[baudib1]

Is Andrew MacDonald the worst Flyer ever? I mean not counting someone like Don Nachbauer or Don Biggs or Tyrell Goulbourne, who no one thought could really play.

I'm guessing that as far as players who were negative impact, MacDonald has had by far the longest career.

I'd also guess that most of the list is Hextall era guys (Umberger, Lehtera, VdV) etc.

 

[baudib1]

Teams more than 4 pts out on November 1st have about a 90% chance of missing the playoffs. That’s how hard it is to make up points. The Flyers have done it multiple times but how many more times will they be able to do it?

The other thing that is working against the Flyers is that they rarely win games easy. Even the last few were one goal games. It’s hard to pick up huge chunks of points if you have to grind out wins all the time. Those one goal games are easy to swing the other way.

It's not going to be easy. The point is that "barely making a dent" is in fact pretty solid. You don't have to make much of a dent very often.

 

[Prongo]

It's not going to be easy. The point is that "barely making a dent" is in fact pretty solid. You don't have to make much of a dent very often.

But making a dent into 8 points is improbable because of the current system set up. Can keep going to the well. It might be pretty solid but you need to be remarkable down the stretch to actually overcome that gap. I believe we gained one point or something since December 12th or something. It’s all about the teams above you. You really need to have long winning streaks to start to battle back.