Speculation: Zack Smith expendable?

[BondraTime]

We can clearly see that Pageau is ready for the NHL. He is still a 20 year old, and we have room. I think we should start the season with him in Bingo, where he will be the best player. If we struggle, or a forward struggles, we call up Pageau and make any changes we need to, whether through trade, demotion or waivers.

Pageau will be with the big club permanently by mid-way through the season at the latest.

 

[NyQuil]

I honestly think that our team is more competitive with Pageau in the line-up as he is right now.

Granted, a small sample size, but if I'm interesting in winning hockey games, I'm putting him in the line-up.

Kassian can either move in or out, or I'm not averse to sitting a guy like Smith or Greening for a game depending on the situation.

I have a feeling that we'll have some pretty consistent movement in and out of the line-up in the bottom six.

 

[Berserker*]

Lol so you're saying Neil is Lucic? No wonder we disagree.


Really though, I think 12 Bergerons > 6 Bergerons and 6 Lucics. I believe that. Two-way plays trumps everything. Everything.

Where did I say that Neil is Lucic? Neil is a 4th liner who brings one of the most unique skill sets in the game. He is one of the few truly intimidating players that can actually take a regular shift. His ability to know exactly when the team needs a big hit or fight and when to tone it down is very rare. He is responsible defensively and he can provide solid offensive contributions from the bottom six. In his last full season, he matched his second highest career point totals with 28 points (13 g, 15 a) and he did it in only 72 games played. He also put up 12 points in 48 games played last year, matching your favorite player Condra even though he didn't play any hockey in the first half of the season.

So your argument that he is slowing down isn't really supported by any facts and is basically purely speculative. Also aside the facts don't really support the claim that Condra is a better play offensively. So essentially when comparing the two it is solely based on Neil's physicality and toughness vs. Condra's defensive prowess and penalty killing abilities.

 

[MtRundle]

Smith seems to take a few too many nights off. Frustrating because when he's on he's really on.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I honestly think that our team is more competitive with him in the line-up as he is right now.

Granted, a small sample size, but if I'm interesting in winning hockey games, I'm putting him in the line-up.

Kassian can either move in or out, or I'm not averse to sitting a guy like Smith or Greening for a game depending on the situation.

I have a feeling that we'll have some pretty consistent movement in and out of the line-up in the bottom six.

I agree. There are always going to be injuries anyway. Even if Pageau gets sent down do to his contract, he'll be the first call up and could very well play his way into a permanent spot.

Whatever group of players start the season probably won't be the group that ends it. There are too many young players with a lot to prove. Some will impress, others will disappoint.

GOtta play the games to find out. Pageau has looked incredible, but its a small sample size. Its up to him to prove that he's the real deal. He's going to get his chance.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'd rather get rid of Spezza before any of our tough guys. Everyone forget how great it felt to kick the crap out of Montreal last yr in the first round of the playoffs. Well that would be us, if we didn't have Neil, Smith, Cowen, Kassian & the rest of our players who will drop them to protect teammates. To have a team full of skilled players is the Oilers who end up as lottery team yr after yr & their best players injured all the time because they are taking hard hits from guys because there is no retrobution. Amazing how little Neil is appreciated on here after all he has done for this team & yet so many continue to rave about Spezza who is such a liablity with the puck. What some call creativity, I call very bad puck management regardless of his offensive numbers, he is a very frustrating player to watch.

Do we also forget how Toronto kicked our ass under JM yr after yr because he wanted to ignore that part of the game & Quinn yr after yr fed him his lunch? That's why JM is an assistant now & not a head coach in the NHL. Skill is great but you have to have a combination of size, toughness & skill on any team to be successful. Players in the NHL are getting bigger not smaller. If all that was necessary was skill every team would have just skill on their roster. And we have some tough teams in our division in Boston & Toronto & Philly & Pitt in our conference what do you propose we do about that, just ignore it? I don't get why so many here want to turn our team into a soft small team of *******. Pitt could be the most skilled team in our conference & they have some big, tough players not just Crosby & Malkin, same for Boston.

Thankfully it seems like it's only our board contrarian Mandy who thinks this way...

I don't agree about Spezza, but Neil deserves the same devotion from the fans that he puts into the team at the very least.

 

[aragorn]

I honestly think that our team is more competitive with Pageau in the line-up as he is right now.

Granted, a small sample size, but if I'm interesting in winning hockey games, I'm putting him in the line-up.

Kassian can either move in or out, or I'm not averse to sitting a guy like Smith or Greening for a game depending on the situation.

I have a feeling that we'll have some pretty consistent movement in and out of the line-up in the bottom six.

Let's keep in mind that Pageau is playing well against juniors & AHLers & some NHLers as well. While I admire his play & give him a great deal of credit for his passion & heart, I wish most of our players would play with his heart, I think there are just too many players on one way contracts & good players who are waiver eligible to have Pageau in the lineup to start the season. That is if BM doesn't make any moves.

Do you think Melnyk will be happy to pay JOB an NHL salary to play in Bingo considering all we have heard this summer regarding his financial situation? I don't. How do you think he will feel about losing a first round pick to waivers? I'm not sure if anyone would pick JOB off waivers but considering the amount of money organizations put into first round picks losing them for nothing has got to sting. I think Pageau will be a victim of the numbers until later in the season besides how often do we here analysts say spending time in the AHL never hurt anyone.

Smith seems to take a few too many nights off. Frustrating because when he's on he's really on.

No player is more frustrating to watch than Spezza giving the puck away with regularity & taking nights off. Pageau is making an arguement that he should have had the C, more players need to look at his effort game in & game out, he's the guy to emulate right now.

 

[BondraTime]

I'd rather get rid of Spezza before any of our tough guys. Everyone forget how great it felt to kick the crap out of Montreal last yr in the first round of the playoffs. Well that would be us, if we didn't have Neil, Smith, Cowen, Kassian & the rest of our players who will drop them to protect teammates. To have a team full of skilled players is the Oilers who end up as lottery team yr after yr & their best players injured all the time because they are taking hard hits from guys because there is no retrobution. Amazing how little Neil is appreciated on here after all he has done for this team & yet so many continue to rave about Spezza who is such a liablity with the puck. What some call creativity, I call very bad puck management regardless of his offensive numbers, he is a very frustrating player to watch.

Do we also forget how Toronto kicked our ass under JM yr after yr because he wanted to ignore that part of the game & Quinn yr after yr fed him his lunch? That's why JM is an assistant now & not a head coach in the NHL. Skill is great but you have to have a combination of size, toughness & skill on any team to be successful. Players in the NHL are getting bigger not smaller. If all that was necessary was skill every team would have just skill on their roster. And we have some tough teams in our division in Boston & Toronto & Philly & Pitt in our conference what do you propose we do about that, just ignore it? I don't get why so many here want to turn our team into a soft small team of *******. Pitt could be the most skilled team in our conference & they have some big, tough players not just Crosby & Malkin, same for Boston.

We should trade Spezza for Kyle Clifford. He can center our top line and drop the mitts. Way better for this team, tough ole' western Canadian boy

 

[NyQuil]

Do you think Melnyk will be happy to pay JOB an NHL salary to play in Bingo considering all we have heard this summer regarding his financial situation? I don't. How do you think he will feel about losing a first round pick to waivers? I'm not sure if anyone would pick JOB off waivers but considering the amount of money organizations put into first round picks losing them for nothing has got to sting. I think Pageau will be a victim of the numbers until later in the season besides how often do we here analysts say spending time in the AHL never hurt anyone.

No one will pick JOB off waivers.

As it is, we basically stashed him somewhere last year despite losing half our team to injuries. I can't think of a more damning piece of evidence than that.

If he wasn't going to stick then, he's not going to stick now.

Cut him loose if you can - or get a really late round pick for him. He's not going to increase in value - even as a first rounder, he was picked 29th overall.

No player is more frustrating to watch than Spezza giving the puck away with regularity & taking nights off. Pageau is making an arguement that he should have had the C, more players need to look at his effort game in & game out, he's the guy to emulate right now.

Pageau is the guy who is fighting for his job.

I'm wondering if Zack Smith's intensity may have diminished a little since he's been more assured of having a lineup spot.

I really don't care what Spezza does in pre-season provided he stays healthy.

 

[BondraTime]

No player is more frustrating to watch than Spezza giving the puck away with regularity & taking nights off. Pageau is making an arguement that he should have had the C, more players need to look at his effort game in & game out, he's the guy to emulate right now.

Yes, the guy who has played all of 20 games with the club is making an argument for the C.

You let your biases get in the way of your otherwise rational postings.

 

[aragorn]

We should trade Spezza for Kyle Clifford. He can center our top line and drop the mitts. Way better for this team, tough ole' western Canadian boy

I wanted Ottawa to sign Clifford when he was available, we could have used more toughness on this team & Clifford can add some offence as well but not on the 1st line.

B]Believe it or not[/B] I'm not for getting rid of Spezza at all at this point. I'm more in favour of beating the **** out of him behind closed doors to smarten him up to become better at managing the puck & playing a 200' game especially now that he is captain. How does it look when your captain keeps throwing the puck away & giving the other team more chances to beat you? Last night they looked like they were just making all kinds of excuses for him, it's only preseason, veterans like to take it easy during preseason, they don't want to get hurt. It looked to me like they were embarrassed to say the truth or afraid of the backlash from Ottawa fans.

IMO it's what separates him from the better players in the league (the Crosbys & Toews) & why he has failed to make Team Canada, he just doesn't protect the puck well & gives it away too much & always has throughout his career. It's the biggest knock on him. It also looks like he is dogging it back when he gives it away but maybe that's his skating style, I'm not sure. Listening to a number of calls yesterday apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that. Considering 44% of people in the Sun poll didn't think he should be captain is a pretty high number, he is a polarizing player. He may be a great leader in the room & behind closed doors, the players obviously like him & he is very well spoken in interviews but on the ice when he is not scoring pts ...

 

[aragorn]

Yes, the guy who has played all of 20 games with the club is making an argument for the C.

You let your biases get in the way of your otherwise rational postings.

While most people accuse me of preffering size over smaller players Spezza is a big guy at 6'3" & I criticize him a lot. Obviously I was kidding but wouldn't it be great to see all of our players play with the heart of Pageau. For a little guy he plays with a lot of guts & determination, I wish Spezza played with his heart.

 

[aragorn]

No one will pick JOB off waivers.

As it is, we basically stashed him somewhere last year despite losing half our team to injuries. I can't think of a more damning piece of evidence than that.

If he wasn't going to stick then, he's not going to stick now.

Cut him loose if you can - or get a really late round pick for him. He's not going to increase in value - even as a first rounder, he was picked 29th overall.



Pageau is the guy who is fighting for his job.

I'm wondering if Zack Smith's intensity may have diminished a little since he's been more assured of having a lineup spot.

I really don't care what Spezza does in pre-season provided he stays healthy.

They had their opportunity to buy JOB out & didn't, I wonder why, don't you? They tried to trade him apparently if what we read is true & no takers, yet he is still on the team. I guess the next step is to place him on waivers & if he isn't taken I guess Melnyk will have to accept paying him an NHL contract to play in Bingo for this yr. What I find weird is that IMO he seems to always be working hard, he is excellent on the PK & seems to find ways to put pts on the board, remember he was leading our team last yr in goals until the "incident". I guess we'll see what happens with him soon enough.

I agree Pageau could be a victim of the numbers at least to start the season but he's still quite young, it won't be the end of the world if he ends up in Bingo. Whenever BM makes a move or two he'll get another opportunity. I wish I could get over the way Spezza plays, he reminds me so much of Yashin who I couldn't stand either even before he held out, never liked him as a player.

 

[Super Cake]

I can't believe any sens fan would want to get rid of neil. There was this thread created in the general hockey discussion board that had to do with chris neil and practically everybody said that they would want a chris neil on their team. So why again would we get rid of him?

 

[aragorn]

Yes, the guy who has played all of 20 games with the club is making an argument for the C.

You let your biases get in the way of your otherwise rational postings.

Don't we all have our biases? We all seem to have the players we like & who we don't like? Most here like the skilled players while some of us prefer the 3rd & 4th liners. Nothing wrong with that, we're all different, a lot of people hate Crosby & he is supposedly the best hockey player in the world. Some people like international hockey or Olympic hockey, some prefer the way the NHL is played, a tougher brand of hockey. Our differences is what makes the world turn isn't it? Wouldn't it be a lttle boring if we all agreed all the time? We would just be following all the lemmings over the cliff together.

 

[blahblah3]

I can't believe any sens fan would want to get rid of neil. There was this thread created in the general hockey discussion board that had to do with chris neil and practically everybody said that they would want a chris neil on their team. So why again would we get rid of him?

Because he was like 3rd in penalties last year at one point, with 0 fights under his belt. And because his passing is pathetic, and because he sucks the very life essence out of teammates like Ziban, Condra, Greening, Pageau, etc......

Ya you want him on your team, then you quickly realize how the refs will screw you over and over again. You won't beat a team like Pittsburgh with 2x the amount of penalties.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

If Hemsky for Smith is still available I do that trade immediately. Looking at our top 6.. we need a player with skill and poise that we lost in Alfredsson. Hemsky fills that need and could only be had for a guy like Smith.

Hemsky-Spezza-Ryan
MacArthur-Turris-Michalek
Conacher-Zibanejad-Neil
Greening-Pageau-Condra

 

[danishh]

smith for hemsky adds a minimum of 1.25M (if the oilers keep half of hemsky's salary/cap) to our payroll and doesnt solve the problem of finding a roster spot for pageau/stone.

 

[Bileur]

I think Pageau makes Condra expendable more than anyone else.

Smith brings size, toughness and I assume leadership since Mac slapped an A on him the other day. He's still got some offensive potential (not really) and can continue to develop defensively.

Condra excels at the PK and is a general beast defensively but brings nothing else.

We're starting to have a selection of guys who can PK, (Turris, Greening, Michalek, Spezza, Pageau, etc.) but our list of "tough" forwards is much more limited (Neil, Smith).

Neil won't be around forever and Kramer does not look like much of a replacement. We'll need someone who can step up at forward.

 

[Stylizer1]

Smith stays as the 4th line center and Pageau plays right wing on the 2nd.

Pageau>Conacher

 

[Hossa18]

We can clearly see that Pageau is ready for the NHL. He is still a 20 year old, and we have room. I think we should start the season with him in Bingo, where he will be the best player. If we struggle, or a forward struggles, we call up Pageau and make any changes we need to, whether through trade, demotion or waivers.

Pageau will be with the big club permanently by mid-way through the season at the latest.

He was clearly the best player last night playing in the NHL so why be the best player in Bingo when you could be the best player in Ottawa.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Don't we all have our biases? We all seem to have the players we like & who we don't like? Most here like the skilled players while some of us prefer the 3rd & 4th liners. Nothing wrong with that, we're all different, a lot of people hate Crosby & he is supposedly the best hockey player in the world. Some people like international hockey or Olympic hockey, some prefer the way the NHL is played, a tougher brand of hockey. Our differences is what makes the world turn isn't it? Wouldn't it be a lttle boring if we all agreed all the time? We would just be following all the lemmings over the cliff together.

Some with more biases than others. And then there's the odd extreme case.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

IMO, the best thing Ottawa can do is play the guys they want to ship and move em and give the spots to upcoming players. Showcase like they did Bishop.

Michalek, imo is the person that is should be good enough to showcase and offer good return while a guy like Stone/Hoffman could replace him on the roster on a 2nd line role or something.

 

[Benjamin]

IMO, the best thing Ottawa can do is play the guys they want to ship and move em and give the spots to upcoming players. Showcase like they did Bishop.

Michalek, imo is the person that is should be good enough to showcase and offer good return while a guy like Stone/Hoffman could replace him on the roster on a 2nd line role or something.

Someone actually agrees with me! yay.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't think anyone has shown that they can replace Michalek yet.