Speculation: Zack Smith expendable?

[WhiteLight*]

He was allowed to be good because the Rangers backed off after Carkner pounded Boyle into the ground.

A lot of Sens fans hate Boyle, but I understand what he was trying to do, and it was the Sens that responded and put a stop to it.

With Montreal, we were pushing them around all over the place and all they could do was take a lame run at Kyle Turris.

That happened in what game 5? Late in the series. Sens were up 3-2 in that series and ended up losing.


Subban, Gallagher, Some no name might have been Prust, etc were all taking runs at people. Especially in that Pageau hat trick game. It did nothing for them.

OK, the Sens were better physically. But that's not what won them the series. They were just better in every way.

 

[Berserker*]

well, it's his fault he's not good enough. He should be a 4th liner. Condra > Neil for that spot.

Pageau's skill set makes Condra redundant. No one on the team or pushing for a roster spot can replace what Neil brings to the table. You must be a troll.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Pageau's skill set makes Condra redundant. No one on the team or pushing for a roster spot can replace what Neil brings to the table. You must be a troll.

Sometimes i actually wondered this? Many of Mandy's posts recently have fallen into the "WTF" category

 

[testinz]

Trade for good D

 

[Topside]

I've been saying Smith is expendable for at least a season and a half now.

He's a nice player, don't get me wrong, but he's hardly as valuable as some have made him out to be around here, and parts of his game (specifically: his offensive ceiling, and part of his his "toughness"- he's a tough player, but he's hardly the "deterrent" some people claim he is) are highly overrated, IMO.

Again: nice player, but hardly irreplaceable or unique. Players like Smith are great to have when they're on their ELC's because they're so useful on a cap team, but
a) it' not like we are in a tough spot, cap-wise, and
b) his current contract isn't a bargain.

I'm not saying we need to trade Smith just to get rid of the guy, he's a useful hockey player, but if a scenario came around where we could improve another part of the team and the main piece going out was Zach Smith, we have more than enough players like him ("brings grit") just waiting for an opportunity in our farm system at the moment.

I agree with this. I haven't really liked Smith's game the last couple years. He gets by on a reputation of being a tough hard nosed prairie boy but I've seen a lot of lazy plays creep into his game. I would be open to trading him for a defender in a similar situation (young 5-6 who has been surpassed on the depth chart). I don't know enough about other team's 5-6 defensemen but something like Stone out of Phoenix or Goloubef in Columbus.

 

[NyQuil]

That happened in what game 5? Late in the series. Sens were up 3-2 in that series and ended up losing.

Wow.

It happened in Game 2, after Boyle went after Karlsson in Game 1.

Rangers had won Game 1, surprise, after the attack, Ottawa wins Game 2 - and who scored the OT winning goal? Chris Neil.



Just give up on this one.

Subban, Gallagher, Some no name might have been Prust, etc were all taking runs at people. Especially in that Pageau hat trick game. It did nothing for them.

OK, the Sens were better physically. But that's not what won them the series. They were just better in every way.

I think it was a pretty significant factor.

Habs fans don't like to admit it, but a lot of their guys were getting injured from the relentless pressure of Ottawa's physical play.

Gryba on Eller might have been the turning point of the series and it happened right away.

Your arguments here are not holding up.

 

[aragorn]

I'd rather get rid of Spezza before any of our tough guys. Everyone forget how great it felt to kick the crap out of Montreal last yr in the first round of the playoffs. Well that would be us, if we didn't have Neil, Smith, Cowen, Kassian & the rest of our players who will drop them to protect teammates. To have a team full of skilled players is the Oilers who end up as lottery team yr after yr & their best players injured all the time because they are taking hard hits from guys because there is no retrobution. Amazing how little Neil is appreciated on here after all he has done for this team & yet so many continue to rave about Spezza who is such a liablity with the puck. What some call creativity, I call very bad puck management regardless of his offensive numbers, he is a very frustrating player to watch.

Do we also forget how Toronto kicked our ass under JM yr after yr because he wanted to ignore that part of the game & Quinn yr after yr fed him his lunch? That's why JM is an assistant now & not a head coach in the NHL. Skill is great but you have to have a combination of size, toughness & skill on any team to be successful. Players in the NHL are getting bigger not smaller. If all that was necessary was skill every team would have just skill on their roster. And we have some tough teams in our division in Boston & Toronto & Philly & Pitt in our conference what do you propose we do about that, just ignore it? I don't get why so many here want to turn our team into a soft small team of *******. Pitt could be the most skilled team in our conference & they have some big, tough players not just Crosby & Malkin, same for Boston.

 

[Berserker*]

Trade for good D

Depending on how our young forwards develop throughout the season, I would be interested in shipping out Michalek at the deadline for Byfuglien. I am sure there can be a deal made around those two players.

 

[TkachukMyAho]

Smitty is pretty valuable. Not the most talented in the world scoring wise, but he's picking up experience and I feel he's part of the bottom 6 core. He's fairly tough, hits, defensively aware and actually has nifty hands on occasion. That may develop further.

As far as dropping Smitty for futures, not sure I'm on board with that. He's also suitable for a wing spot.

 

[Berserker*]

Sometimes i actually wondered this? Many of Mandy's posts recently have fallen into the "WTF" category

Agreed I am starting to become pretty convinced that MAK is simply a troll.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Pageau's skill set makes Condra redundant. No one on the team or pushing for a roster spot can replace what Neil brings to the table. You must be a troll.

What Condra brings to the table is better than Neil. At even strength, and on the PK.


Bergeron >>> Lucic. Lucic is more unique, does that make him better? No.

Agreed I am starting to become pretty convinced that MAK is simply a troll.

well you're not allowed to say that.

 

[aragorn]

Depending on how our young forwards develop throughout the season, I would be interested in shipping out Michalek at the deadline for Byfuglien. I am sure there can be a deal made around those two players.

IMO Ottawa doesn't need any more defencemen with Wiercioch emerging & Ceci on the verge of breaking into the NHl either near the end of this season or next. Then their is Claesson & Boroweicki knocking on the door. I initially thought of moving a couple of forwards for Franson if Toronto would make a deal but I don't see that happening at all.

Ottawa will have Methot, Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercioch & Ceci as top defencemen with Gryba & maybe Phillips as extras, if they re-sign him which I'm not sure they will. They have plenty of depth on defence & some potential top four defencemen already to draw from. My guess is if they start moving players it could be for draft picks to continue to stock the cupboard.

 

[NyQuil]

What Condra brings to the table is better than Neil. At even strength, and on the PK.

Bergeron >>> Lucic. Lucic is more unique, does that make him better? No.

Boston would not be as good a team if it were comprised of only Bergeron-type players.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Wow.

It happened in Game 2, after Boyle went after Karlsson in Game 1.

Rangers had won Game 1, surprise, after the attack, Ottawa wins Game 2 - and who scored the OT winning goal? Chris Neil.



Just give up on this one.

Whatever.


If you had better players than Konopka and Carkner on that team, the Sens would have been more successful imo.

I think it was a pretty significant factor.

Habs fans don't like to admit it, but a lot of their guys were getting injured from the relentless pressure of Ottawa's physical play.

Gryba on Eller might have been the turning point of the series and it happened right away.

Your arguments here are not holding up.

The Sens dominated the special teams, which was very significant in the win. Has nothing to do with physical play.

Anderson >>>>> Price. Has nothing to do with physical play.

Turris, Alfredsson, Karlsson, Methot, Pageau, Condra, Anderosn, heck Silfverberg is what won us that series. NOT Neil, Smith, Greening, Cowen or Gryba.


Yeah, my arguments are holding up just fine thank you

 

[WhiteLight*]

Boston would not be as good a team if it were comprised of only Bergeron-type players.

say what?








12 Bergerons >>> Boston

 

[NyQuil]

Whatever.

If you had better players than Konopka and Carkner on that team, the Sens would have been more successful imo.

We tried playing without them in Game 1, and we lost pretty decisively.

It was a physical, defensive series.

You can't just try to win one way.

The Sens dominated the special teams, which was very significant in the win. Has nothing to do with physical play.

Anderson >>>>> Price. Has nothing to do with physical play.

Turris, Alfredsson, Karlsson, Methot, Pageau, Condra, Anderosn, heck Silfverberg is what won us that series. NOT Neil, Smith, Greening, Cowen or Gryba.
Yeah, my arguments are holding up just fine thank you

As I said earlier, the Habs are not a physical imposing team so using this series to prove that you can win against everyone in the same fashion is pretty short-sighted.

 

[NyQuil]

say what?



12 Bergerons >>> Boston

I said "Bergeron-type" players. You don't think Lucic was a factor? Or Shawn Thornton?

I can't believe you actually think that you only need finesse players to win hockey games in the NHL.

 

[WhiteLight*]

As I said earlier, the Habs are not a physical imposing team so using this series to prove that you can win against everyone in the same fashion is pretty short-sighted.

Chicago manages to win against everyone

 

[WhiteLight*]

I said "Bergeron-type" players. You don't think Lucic was a factor? Or Shawn Thornton?

I can't believe you actually think that you only need finesse players to win hockey games in the NHL.

I think 12 ridiculously good two-way players like Bergeron are definitely more valuable than Thorntons and Lucics. They would kick their ass.

 

[Berserker*]

What Condra brings to the table is better than Neil. At even strength, and on the PK.


Bergeron >>> Lucic. Lucic is more unique, does that make him better? No.



well you're not allowed to say that.

Lol Condra is no Bergeron, he more more like a Chris Kelly-lite at best.

But in regards to your comment, you need to have a diverse style of skill sets in order to be consistently successful in the playoffs. A team full of Bergeron's and a team full of Lucic's would be inferior to a team filled with a combination of the two.

 

[NyQuil]

Chicago manages to win against everyone

As our talent develops, you could see a shift towards less physical play.

I don't think we are there yet.

I think 12 ridiculously good two-way players like Bergeron are definitely more valuable than Thorntons and Lucics. They would kick their ass.

I'd still rather have 10 Bergerons, 1 Thornton and 1 Lucic.

No one is proposing a team of 12 Chris Neils.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Lol Condra is no Bergeron, he more more like a Chris Kelly-lite at best.

But in regards to your comment, you need to have a diverse style of skill sets in order to be consistently successful in the playoffs. A team full of Bergeron's and a team full of Lucic's would be inferior to a team filled with a combination of the two.

Lol so you're saying Neil is Lucic? No wonder we disagree.


Really though, I think 12 Bergerons > 6 Bergerons and 6 Lucics. I believe that. Two-way plays trumps everything. Everything.

 

[Berserker*]

As our talent develops, you could see a shift towards less physical play.

I don't think we are there yet.

Unlikely. Both MacLean and the Murray's are big advocates of physical play, if anything the team will become more physical, not less. Although I think there strategy is to teach some of the younger more skilled players to play a physical style rather than bringing in traditional grinder types. As we saw with Pageau last night, the are beginning to have success with that strategy.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

What Condra brings to the table is better than Neil. At even strength, and on the PK.


Bergeron >>> Lucic. Lucic is more unique, does that make him better? No.



well you're not allowed to say that.

They're different players. Condra is an effective defensive forward that doesn't make many mistakes. Neil is a presence, when he's on the ice the opposition has to keep their head up. They'll think twice about taking liberties with Senators as they know Neil is there to make them pay, all the while chipping in offensively and providing leadership.

Im not sure how anyone who has watched Neil develop over the years can think he's expendable. Especially considering how thin the Senators forwards are when it comes to the nasty.

If I had to choose one player to have now, it would have to be Neil and Im a big fan of Condra.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

As our talent develops, you could see a shift towards less physical play.

I don't think we are there yet.



I'd still rather have 10 Bergerons, 1 Thornton and 1 Lucic.

No one is proposing a team of 12 Chris Neils.

Exactly. It's easy to get excited about some of the young talent on the Senators, especially Pageau. But we have to remember that for every surprise youngster that builds on initial success, there are a bunch of Peter Regins.