Speculation: Zack Smith expendable?

[Max Power]

wow it's incredible to read "Sens fans" still clueless about Chris Neil in 2013.

Anyway, O'Brien is a decent 4th liner but he has to go, and I think he will be the first to move. Hopefully we trade him for a pick or a useful AHLer/prospect

Without him, we have this :

Michalek-Spezza-Ryan
MacArthur-Turris-Conacher
Greening-Zibanejad-Neil
Smith-Pageau-Condra
Kassian


It's pretty clear that Pageau is NHL ready so IMO we go with that. But the problem is not Pageau... it's more if a guy like Stone or Petersson makes the team... Who is the next expendable then?




He has a new contract starting this season and it's 3 years. And I'm pretty sure he's going to retire at the end of this contract. We have to keep him, career senator, bled so much for this team... it's rare these days, n'est-ce pas Alfie?

Yes he's not prime Neil, but a bit like Phillips, we need his leadership, experience and intangibles (we just lost Alfredsson and Gonchar for CS)... It's just that their roles/ice-time are diminishing over the years, no problem.

THANK YOU

I guess people easilly forget how injured he was by the second round last year

I was reading on the other topic about trading Neil to give De Costa a try WT???
Neil is a heart and soul guy. When he's on the ice the other team plays with extra caution. He brings an entirely different dimension to the team and he's still a decent hockey player. Every other team would be drooling at the chance of having him, especially in the playoffs

 

[Berserker*]

I bring you the 1st Leafs goal last night as Exhibit #1. Pageau goes out of his way to rough up Kadri and the Leafs end up on the PP. Methot goes out of his way to lay out Raymond, he ends up out of position and the puck ends up in the back of the net.



So no, Bruiser, no.



I wish we had more Karlssons, Turrises and Wierciochs.

Lol, what a horrible example to use. The ref's ****ed us with the Pageau situation. Kadri had his gloves dropped so he should have either got 5 for fighting or 2 for roughing. Clarkson got 2 for roughing but easily could have been given a game misconduct for being the third man in. If the ref's weren't complete ****ing idiots than there would be no way that Kadri would be on the ice.

Also, even if we left the reffing as is, Kadri shouldn't have been able to walk in on Anderson like that. That is a clear example of lacking physicality. He was given way too much time and space.

 

[Carrie Underwood]

Smith + Puemple for a 1st ...maybe??

rock
Green spezz ryan
mac turr mich
con zibby neil
dizzy Page cond
Kassian
waive job
stone / petey / hoff first callups

 

[Berserker*]

If anyone is traded it should be Neil. Skills are deteriorating, not looking forward to the next 4 years Neil-wise. And there's just too many young guys pushing. Only room for 1 of Neil or Condra, and I pick Condra.

Neil is the easy choice there. lol.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Here we go again with moving guys like Smith and/or Neil

Sometimes you don't know what you have until it's gone

 

[NyQuil]

There was a thread about Neil on the main board not so long ago.

Fans from other teams were commenting on his utility and value, as a truly intimidating heavyweight who can play a veteran shift, and who doesn't cost his team with boneheaded penalties or playing mistakes.

Most noted that there were very few players like him in the NHL and that he's almost a throwback to the Bob Proberts of the past who could win the game with hits, fists and the occasional goal.

It's going to be challenging to determine when his effectiveness has decreased to the point of relevance.

But as of right now, I find it hard to believe that he'd be sat for guys who have a thimbleful of NHL experience and no ability to defend their fellow teammates.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Lol, what a horrible example to use. The ref's ****ed us with the Pageau situation. Kadri had his gloves dropped so he should have either got 5 for fighting or 2 for roughing. Clarkson got 2 for roughing but easily could have been given a game misconduct for being the third man in. If the ref's weren't complete ****ing idiots than there would be no way that Kadri would be on the ice.

Also, even if we left the reffing as is, Kadri shouldn't have been able to walk in on Anderson like that. That is a clear example of lacking physicality. He was given way too much time and space.

That tends to happen when you play very physical, hit after the whistle and initiate scrums. I'm tired of getting ****ed by the refs. Blame them all you want (it was a bad call) but Pageau started it. It never happens if Pageau behaves.


As for the Kadri goal, it's not a lack of physicality, it's TOO MUCH. Methot was way out of position because he attempted a big hit. That's a huge no no on the PK. That's why Kadri was wide open.

Neil is the easy choice there. lol.

Here we go again with moving guys like Smith and/or Neil

Sometimes you don't know what you have until it's gone

Says the 2 guys with fighting related avatars. Sorry but I don't watch hockey for the fights.

 

[Xspyrit]

If it makes your team better, why not? Neil is like the 12th best forward on the team, and that's assuming he is better than Hoffman, SDC and Petersson (who haven't even had a chance).

Not only that, he probably has really good trade value.

Of course we probably have 10 guys better than Neil offensively (skating, shot, stickhandling, etc) but Neil brings a dimension to your team that is pretty rare (hits, fights, scores). A team like the Habs would kill to have a guy like this. Heck, they're paying Brandon Prust 2.5 per season to try and be that guy

I know I would feel 2 inches taller and 15 pounds heavier if I had Neil in my line-up. Kassian, not as much, even if he is heavier. Chris Neil is tough as nails, like way beyond his size. I'd rather fight many bigger guys than Neil.

Looks pretty good. Ship out Greening in that case. I'd also rather have Hoffman and SDC as spares than Kassian and Neil.

Ya that top-9 is "potentially" insane.

I'm a big SDC fan but we need to keep some sandpaper... Shipping out Greening, Neil and Kassian to make spots for Petersson, SDC and Hoffman would hurt too much. We'd be approaching Habs territory and we all saw how the Sens manhandled them in the playoffs.

THANK YOU

I guess people easilly forget how injured he was by the second round last year

I was reading on the other topic about trading Neil to give De Costa a try WT???
Neil is a heart and soul guy. When he's on the ice the other team plays with extra caution. He brings an entirely different dimension to the team and he's still a decent hockey player. Every other team would be drooling at the chance of having him, especially in the playoffs

I guess that means that we're getting old...

 

[WhiteLight*]

Of course we probably have 10 guys better than Neil offensively (skating, shot, stickhandling, etc) but Neil brings a dimension to your team that is pretty rare (hits, fights, scores). A team like the Habs would kill to have a guy like this. Heck, they're paying Brandon Prust 2.5 per season to try and be that guy

I know I would feel 2 inches taller and 15 pounds heavier if I had Neil in my line-up. Kassian, not as much, even if he is heavier. Chris Neil is tough as nails, like way beyond his size. I'd rather fight many bigger guys than Neil.




Ya that top-9 is "potentially" insane.

I'm a big SDC fan but we need to keep some sandpaper... Shipping out Greening, Neil and Kassian to make spots for Petersson, SDC and Hoffman would hurt too much. We'd be approaching Habs territory and we all saw how the Sens manhandled them in the playoffs.



I guess that means that we're getting old...

I disagree with pretty much everything.


I'll just say: who were the best players against the Habs? Turris, Alfredsson, Karlsson, Methot, Pageau, Condra. Does that sound right? 1 out of 6 is a bruiser. That's it.

 

[Berserker*]

That tends to happen when you play very physical, hit after the whistle and initiate scrums. I'm tired of getting ****ed by the refs. Blame them all you want (it was a bad call) but Pageau started it. It never happens if Pageau behaves.


As for the Kadri goal, it's not a lack of physicality, it's TOO MUCH. Methot was way out of position because he attempted a big hit. That's a huge no no on the PK. That's why Kadri was wide open.

Says the 2 guys with fighting related avatars. Sorry but I don't watch hockey for the fights.

Lol, ask any respectable poster on here. Hell, go create a poll. You are delusional if you think Condra brings more value to the team than Neil.

 

[NyQuil]

I disagree with pretty much everything.


I'll just say: who were the best players against the Habs? Turris, Alfredsson, Karlsson, Methot, Pageau, Condra. Does that sound right? 1 out of 6 is a bruiser. That's it.

As a team, if you want to progress in the playoffs, you have to have a wide range of skills and ways to win hockey games.

The Habs are hardly a good benchmark for determining that you don't need bruisers in the playoffs.

Who were arguably our best guys against the Rangers, in the year before? Neil? Konopka? Carkner?

Right, different match-up.

 

[Berserker*]

There was a thread about Neil on the main board not so long ago.

Fans from other teams were commenting on his utility and value, as a truly intimidating heavyweight who can play a veteran shift, and who doesn't cost his team with boneheaded penalties or playing mistakes.

Most noted that there were very few players like him in the NHL and that he's almost a throwback to the Bob Proberts of the past who could win the game with hits, fists and the occasional goal.

It's going to be challenging to determine when his effectiveness has decreased to the point of relevance.

But as of right now, I find it hard to believe that he'd be sat for guys who have a thimbleful of NHL experience and no ability to defend their fellow teammates.

This.

It's not like he is just some heavyweight, he can also play the game and make big hits. His ability to influence the momentum of the game through his physical play is another thing that isn't easily replaced.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Mandy, please stop already

 

[WhiteLight*]

As a team, if you want to progress in the playoffs, you have to have a wide range of skills and ways to win hockey games.

The Habs are hardly a good benchmark for determining that you don't need bruisers in the playoffs.

Who were arguably our best guys against the Rangers, in the year before? Neil? Konopka? Carkner?

Right, different match-up.

Karlsson, Condra and Spezza were some of the best against the Rangers.


The point is Neil is no longer the player he was. he's not a 3rd liner anymore.

 

[NyQuil]

Karlsson, Condra and Spezza were some of the best against the Rangers.

Do you remember what happened with Karlsson in that series?

You're just proving our point.

The point is Neil is no longer the player he was. he's not a 3rd liner anymore.

I'll be the first to admit it if you're right. Phillips certainly isn't a top shutdown d-man anymore, it will happen eventually.

As of right now, I don't see it.

He may not be a 3rd liner by virtue of having some good talent, but that doesn't mean he couldn't play that role.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Do you remember what happened with Karlsson in that series?

You're just proving our point.

I remember Karlsson being pretty good and having like 3x as many shots as any other player. He had no help offensively.

 

[NyQuil]

I remember Karlsson being pretty good and having like 3x as many shots as any other player. He had no help offensively.

 

[WhiteLight*]

I'll be the first to admit it if you're right. Phillips certainly isn't a top shutdown d-man anymore, it will happen eventually.

As of right now, I don't see it.

He may not be a 3rd liner by virtue of having some good talent, but that doesn't mean he couldn't play that role.

He'll drag down Zibanejad, and that'S what I want to avoid.


On a Cup contender, Chris Neil does not play 3rd line.

 

[NyQuil]

He'll drag down Zibanejad, and that'S what I want to avoid.

On a Cup contender, Chris Neil does not play 3rd line.

I don't want Zibanejad playing with Neil, but that's hardly Neil's fault.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

One of my FAV moments! I was so pumped!

This is why you always need toughness so **** heads like Boyle don't take shots at our star players.

 

[WhiteLight*]

OK. Still doesn't change the fact that Karlsson was good, and if he had more offensive support (better teammates instead of scrubs), could have produced more points.


You're really fast

 

[WhiteLight*]

I don't want Zibanejad playing with Neil, but that's hardly Neil's fault.

well, it's his fault he's not good enough. He should be a 4th liner. Condra > Neil for that spot.

 

[NyQuil]

OK. Still doesn't change the fact that Karlsson was good, and if he had more offensive support (better teammates instead of scrubs), could have produced more points.

You're really fast

He was allowed to be good because the Rangers backed off after Carkner pounded Boyle into the ground.

A lot of Sens fans hate Boyle, but I understand what he was trying to do, and it was the Sens that responded and put a stop to it.

With Montreal, we were pushing them around all over the place and all they could do was take a lame run at Kyle Turris.

well, it's his fault he's not good enough. He should be a 4th liner. Condra > Neil for that spot.

Sure, fine.

I don't really care about 3rd/4th line.

They will probably see roughly the same amount of time.

If Kassian is in the lineup, maybe less.

 

[MtRundle]

Zack Smith isn't expendable, he's just isn't who we think he is.
A good skater who can fight and show flashes of O... then disappears for 5-10 games.

 

[NyQuil]

A good skater who can fight and show flashes of O... then disappears for 5-10 games.

Describes Greening too.