Waived: Subban on Waivers (Claimed by Vegas)

[BadBruins]

LV claimed Subban, but you don’t think they would have claimed Khudobin, who is better, and has started for stretches? Not sure I agree with this. Subban couldn’t beat out McIntyre, who had significantly better numbers in the AHL last year and has been a pro two years less.

I don’t get all the angst.

I'm not sure I really get how "years as a pro" plays into things. Both are probably at pretty similar stages. I certainly agree last year he passed Subban on the goaltender prospect chart, who appears to have stagnated or even regressed.

(23) Subban - 140 Pro games - .918 (AHL) .813 (NHL)
(25) McIntyre - 87 Pro games - .915 (AHL) .858 (NHL)

I would have went with a young back up in hopes of building up some sort of trade value. Really though, even a strong back up/borderline starter has relatively minimal value.

 

[Seidenbergy]

For me, the (mild) angst has to do with losing an asset for nothing. Subban might have been useful as part of a trade package at some point. But I don't blame Sweeney, Dobby was clearly the better choice for backup this season.

If he could've been included in a trade package for ANYTHING, they would've done it. When you waive a guy, you all but admit to the world that you tried to trade him for peanuts and were unsuccessful.

 

[ODAAT]

Bruins are kind to the league giving up their first rounders that they developed.

I`m not one who`s been blown away by the "development" of Subban

 

[yazmybaby]

Hopefully DS learns from this. DONOT take a goalie in the first round anymore. Goalies are the toughest position to draft and the development curve is huge to the NHL, may take 5 years to make it! We have Zane and Vlader now who can learn more by playing at the AHL level full time.

 

[Gee Wally]

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I believe that if Vegas were to waive him, the Bruins would have the first opportunity to claim.

No. Until a date in Nov. the waiver order is last year's inverse finish. After that it goes by current record. The Bs do not skip the line.

If LV waives and ONLY Bos claims him, then they can send him to the AHL.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Great job Bruins. Free assets for all.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

If he could've been included in a trade package for ANYTHING, they would've done it. When you waive a guy, you all but admit to the world that you tried to trade him for peanuts and were unsuccessful.

Not as part of the preseason process.

 

[WreckItRask]

No. Until a date in Nov. the waiver order is last year's inverse finish. After that it goes by current record. The Bs do not skip the line.

If LV waives and ONLY Bos claims him, then they can send him to the AHL.

I think you're half right here. Once that date in November is set, then the original team that waived a player can reclaim them and send them down if they're the only team that bids. So I think you're right there.

I think, however, that if Vegas tries to send him down then Boston can reclaim him by priority, but they have to keep him on the NHL roster if they want to protect him from being claimed. That's how I understand it at least.

 

[BostonBob]

Hopefully DS learns from this. DONOT take a goalie in the first round anymore. Goalies are the toughest position to draft and the development curve is huge to the NHL, may take 5 years to make it! We have Zane and Vlader now who can learn more by playing at the AHL level full time.

Yesterday on TSN Bob McKenzie had an interesting stat about drafting Goalies - over the last 10 drafts only 1 Goalie ( Andrei Vasilevskiy ) drafted in the 1st round has had any sort of success in the NHL. By the way - the Bruins weren't the only team to admit that they whiffed on their top pick in 2012. Pittsburgh just traded D Derrick Pouliot ( drafted 8th overall in 2012 ) to Vancouver for a career AHLer ( Andrey Pedan ) and a 2018 4th round pick.

 

[BruinDust]

Great post. The global success rate for drafting goalies is laughably bad and unpredictable. I just spent a few minutes looking at what you said...it's crazy how few of those guys pan out. That draft was largely a miss anyway, so other Pearson and Skjei, there wasn't a lot of hits at or after Subban.

My hope is that the Subban experience (coupled with the McIntyre development) has cemented a philosophy within the Bruins organization that you're simply best served to draft a late round goalie virtually every year, and then let the cream rise to the top over time. If you're spending 5th, 6th and 7th round picks on goalies every year, you're likely going to hit on one every 5-7 years in my opinion. Grab a college bound kid that's going to be a horse for 4 years before you throw money at them.

I agree with this philosophy, but I'd take it a step further, I don't have issue using 3rds or 4th, even late 2nds if you REALLY like a guy, on a goaltender.

I also think in a cap system now you almost need to have your first rounders play in the NHL sooner rather than later. The simply is a better chance of that happening if your selecting F and D in the 1st round, Goaltenders by and large, regardless of what round they are selected, aren't going to contribute to your parent club until 3-4-5 years out from their draft year, so they are long-term project investments, when NHL teams now need to hit on and incorporate their 1st round guys earlier than 4-5 years out to be able to have quality affordable ELC players ready for your line-up.

 

[Fenway]

FLUTO SHINZAWA
Vegas Golden Knights a better situation for goalie Malcolm Subban

It is a shame the Bruins lost Malcolm Subban to the Golden Knights on waivers for nothing. Subban was the team’s first-round pick in 2012. He was the second goalie picked after Tampa Bay drafted Andrei Vasilevskiy, currently entering his first full season as the Lightning’s No. 1. But losing Subban for zero was better than the alternative: keeping him on the varsity roster behind Tuukka Rask.

I have never seen a more athletic goalie than Subban at any level. He is fast, quick, explosive, and flexible beyond comprehension. But the Bruins pulled Subban from both of his NHL starts because he didn’t deserve to be on the ice in the first place. The pucks that Minnesota and St. Louis slipped past Subban had no business being behind any NHL goalie.

So it would not have been fair to Subban or the Bruins to keep him up top simply for the sake of not losing him on waivers. The 23-year-old may, with time, develop into an NHL goalie. Vegas has the luxury of taking said time, given the expansion franchise will not be competitive for years.

But the Bruins have to win now. For that to happen, Rask has to be under the games-played threshold he’s hit in the last three years. Rask needs his rest, and the Bruins require a varsity goalie to tend the net while that happens. Subban is not that, not when he can’t beat out a seventh-round pick like Zane McIntyre for the Providence crease.

 

[DKH]

Yesterday on TSN Bob McKenzie had an interesting stat about drafting Goalies - over the last 10 drafts only 1 Goalie ( Andrei Vasilevskiy ) drafted in the 1st round has had any sort of success in the NHL. By the way - the Bruins weren't the only team to admit that they whiffed on their top pick in 2012. Pittsburgh just traded D Derrick Pouliot ( drafted 8th overall in 2012 ) to Vancouver for a career AHLer ( Andrey Pedan ) and a 2018 4th round pick.

I went to the 1999 draft and we rode up on the elevator with Brian Finley. I remember thinking he looked very nervous but I don't blame him.

I kept an eye on him and the poor kid goes down as a top 100 all time draft bust

 

[Dr Quincy]

Yesterday on TSN Bob McKenzie had an interesting stat about drafting Goalies - over the last 10 drafts only 1 Goalie ( Andrei Vasilevskiy ) drafted in the 1st round has had any sort of success in the NHL. By the way - the Bruins weren't the only team to admit that they whiffed on their top pick in 2012. Pittsburgh just traded D Derrick Pouliot ( drafted 8th overall in 2012 ) to Vancouver for a career AHLer ( Andrey Pedan ) and a 2018 4th round pick.

I agree that you shouldn't take a G in the 1st, but that stat is kinda misleading.

How many goalies have been taken in the 1st round in those 10 years? 8 maybe? Maybe less? Kind of a small sample size. How many stay at home big Dmen have been taken in the 1st round in those 10 years? Probably a similar or worse "bust rate".

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

I don't care if the Bruins give up assets for nothing, except when they don't really bring in assets either.

Asset and cap management seemed to be what lost Chiarelli his job. Sweeney seems to be doing adequately ok with the cap manangement. But I question his asset management. Acquiring Colin Miller for Lucic, then losing him for nothing; allowing former 1st round pick and YOUNG goalie to be waived and lost, not awful by itself, but these moves add up. Add in the fact that the team literally has nothing to show for giving Tyler Seguin away, it's frustrating to watch happen. Oh well.

Well, we'll get to first hand compare how Subban vs. Khudobin does in the NHL this season.

 

[Fenway]

 

[bob27]

It's a shame they couldn't use Subban and some other assets in order to not lose Colin Miller in the expansion draft for nothing, since clearly there was some interest for Subban seeing that they grabbed him now. I believe that Miller has a bright future ahead of him as a middle pairing defenceman.

 

[BostonBob]

I agree that you shouldn't take a G in the 1st, but that stat is kinda misleading.

How many goalies have been taken in the 1st round in those 10 years? 8 maybe? Maybe less? Kind of a small sample size.

I decided to look it up and the number is a bit higher than I remembered. A total of 26 Goalies have been taken in the 1st round since the 2000 NHL Entry Draft and most of them had very little NHL success or even played in the NHL.


2000 - Rick DiPietro ( 1st overall by the NY Islanders )
2000 - Brent Krahn ( 9th overall by Calgary )

2001 - Pascal LeClaire ( 8th overall by Columbus )
2001 - Dan Blackburn ( 10th overall by the NY Rangers )
2001 - Jason Bacashihua ( 26th overall by Dallas )
2001 - Adam Munro ( 29th overall by Chicago )

2002 - Kari Lehtonen ( 2nd overall by Atlanta )
2002 - Cam Ward ( 25th overall by Carolina )
2002 - Hannu Toivonen ( 29th overall by Boston )

2003 - Marc-Andre Fleury ( 1st overall by Pittsburgh )

2004 - Al Montoya ( 6th overall by the NY Rangers )
2004 - Devan Dubnyk ( 14th overall by Edmonton )
2004 - Marek Schwarz ( 17th overall by St. Louis )
2004 - Cory Schneider ( 26th overall by Vancouver )

2005 - Carey Price ( 5th overall by Montreal )
2005 - Tuukka Rask ( 21st overall by Toronto )

2006 - Jonathan Bernier ( 11th overall by LA )
2006 - Riku Helenius ( 15th overall by TB )

2008 - Chet Pickard ( 18th overall by Nashville )
2008 - Tom McCollum ( 30th overall by Detroit )

2010 - Jack Campbell 9 11th overall by Dallas )
2010 - Mark Visentin ( 27th overall by Phoenix )

2012 - Andrei Vasilevskiy ( 19th overall by TB )
2012 - Malcolm Subban ( 24th overall by Boston )

2015 - Ilya Samsonov ( 22nd overall by Washington )

2017 - Jake Oettinger ( 26th overall by Dallas )

 

[BruinDust]

I decided to look it up and the number is a bit higher than I remembered. A total of 26 Goalies have been taken in the 1st round since the 2000 NHL Entry Draft and most of them had very little NHL success or even played in the NHL.

Interesting to note that 4 of the successful goalies chosen were Top 5 picks (Fleury, Lehtonen, Dipietro, and Price).

 

[s3antana5757]

It's a shame they couldn't use Subban and some other assets in order to not lose Colin Miller in the expansion draft for nothing, since clearly there was some interest for Subban seeing that they grabbed him now. I believe that Miller has a bright future ahead of him as a middle pairing defenceman.

THIS. Why in the world wouldn't you trade C. Miller, Subban, pick, and Beleskey to Vegas? Solves all the problems and you don't waste assets.

At this point, I'm very concerned that we are going to start wasting guys like Czarnik, Vatrano, etc. due to the roster crunch.

 

[s3antana5757]

And apparently made no attempt to trade him. Really starting to get concerned. Just a total waste and it's not a new thing.

https://www.bruinsdaily.com/2017/10...malcolm-subban-before-placing-him-on-waivers/

 

[BruinDust]

THIS. Why in the world wouldn't you trade C. Miller, Subban, pick, and Beleskey to Vegas? Solves all the problems and you don't waste assets.

At this point, I'm very concerned that we are going to start wasting guys like Czarnik, Vatrano, etc. due to the roster crunch.

I'm not sure why Vegas would of gone for that, unless the pick your offering is a 1st rounder.

They knew Colin was exposed, so they knew they could have him for free.

They also knew that Subban may not be qualified, and could get him for free. And if he was qualfied and extended, they could look at Boston's depth chart, see that he needed to clear waivers if he didn't make the team in camp, and then get him for free.

You would waste assets if you made that deal above, the draft pick.

That being said, there is nothing stopping Boston from trying to move Belesky to Vegas by offering up incentive to do so. Unless Vegas is on his short NO-trade list (he can pick the 23 teams he can be trade to). Which as an expansion team, they may very well be one of the 7 teams he won't go to.

 

[Number8]

THIS. Why in the world wouldn't you trade C. Miller, Subban, pick, and Beleskey to Vegas? Solves all the problems and you don't waste assets.

At this point, I'm very concerned that we are going to start wasting guys like Czarnik, Vatrano, etc. due to the roster crunch.

Easy to say, but maybe Vegas doesn't want to do it?

Without benefit of hindsight, what return would you have wanted for that package. THEN, not now?

 

[Don Cherry]

This looks like it might be one of those sure wish we had that to do over again moves.

There is absolutely no way this kid should have been dropped for nothing. Bad, bad move.

 

[Number8]

And apparently made no attempt to trade him. Really starting to get concerned. Just a total waste and it's not a new thing.

https://www.bruinsdaily.com/2017/10...malcolm-subban-before-placing-him-on-waivers/

How many teams in League are so thin at Keeper position that MS would be the NHL backup this season? Answer to that question tells you why no team would give up any assets for MS.

Any team not willing to have him as backup is in same position as Boston -- having to waive him.

If Boston keeps him but then sends him down, they have to waive him. Who's first in line? Vegas. They could just wait it out.

Did you want MS as our backup for the entire season?

That article is a massive oversimplification of the situation at best.