Sharks roster discussion

[WSS11]

Lighten up on the CAPS button Francis, I don’t follow every thread. My point is that the sharks are once again rebuilding on the fly while trying staying competitive. In order to do that they’ll need to acquire another elite forward to bolster scoring.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

For the last time,

THERE WERE ABSOLUTELY NO REPORTS OF DW WINING AND DINING STAMKOS. THE OFFICIAL REPORT FROM PIERRE LEBRUN WAS THAT MONTREAL TORONTO BUFFALO AND A FOURTH TEAM HAD MET WITH STAMKOS IN PERSON TO MAKE THEIR PITCH. ELLIOT FRIEDMAN PURELY SPECULATED THAT SAN JOSE WAS THE FOURTH TEAM AND LATER STARTED TALKING ABOUT HIS OWN SPECULATION AS FACT.

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[pappaf2]

I thought it was pretty much a done deal that Tavares would be staying on the island now that the new arena has been approved.

 

[WSS11]

I thought it was pretty much a done deal that Tavares would be staying on the island now that the new arena has been approved.

Hes So close to free agency now that he could probably just test the market and re-sign if he truly wants to stay in the summer. No real reason to sign with NYI now.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Tell us how you really feel.

The caps weren't to express anger but rather so that people would see it and be unable to ignore it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m hoping Tavares doesn’t re-sign with NYI and DW will try to wine and dine him like he reportedly did with Stamkos. With Thornton, Ward, and Hansen’s salary coming off the books we should have enough cap space even with Tierney, Hertl, Vlasic, and Jones all getting raises. Ideally DW will be able to dump Martin and buyout Boedker to free up even more cap. I know it’ll never ever happen but let a guy dream.

HF is where dreams go to die. You should know this. lol

 

[Sysreq]

I thought it was pretty much a done deal that Tavares would be staying on the island now that the new arena has been approved.

As the Islanders aren’t presently holding a playoff spot, I wouldn’t consider anything off the table. We still got a lot of hockey left for sure, but if they don’t make the playoffs, I think that definitely hurts negotiations.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If I’m Tavares, even if I’m 95% sure I’m going to re-sign with the Isles, there’s no way I even consider signing any contract until this summer. He’s in the driver’s seat. The Isles obviously want to keep him and he probably likes the Isles, but you might as well see what else is out there, right? I feel like that’s what Stamkos did, even if he ultimately re-upped with Tampa.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Was looking at our roster/stats today and can't believe how much money is being wasted on 4 guys. Martin, Boedker, Ward and Hansen are making a combined 15-16M and basically could all be dropped without hurting the team. Ward has definitely been better this year than he was last year but the other 3 are easily interchangeable. Do we think it's possible to trade any of them at this point? Martin probably has the most trade value as he still performs like a #4 or 5. Boedker and Hansen probably have little value and might not even be claimed if we were to waive them. Do we wait until a team maybe is desperate closer to the deadline or are we stuck with them?

 

[Herschel]

I thought it was pretty much a done deal that Tavares would be staying on the island now that the new arena has been approved.

Obviously having a deal in place improves the chances of him re-signing but that new arena is still going to be 3 seasons away. The Isles also have some roster issues that will likely need to be addressed before Tavares agrees to anything. They lack a starting goalie and have several questions marks on D. If Tavares wants to win a cup he is likely going to seek some sort of clarity on how these will be addressed before signing long-term.

I still believe the odds favour him re-signing but I also cannot shake the feeling that he is the most likely star to jump ship. I never really through Stammer was leaving Tampa but this feels different. Missing the playoffs might be all it takes.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Was looking at our roster/stats today and can't believe how much money is being wasted on 4 guys. Martin, Boedker, Ward and Hansen are making a combined 15-16M and basically could all be dropped without hurting the team. Ward has definitely been better this year than he was last year but the other 3 are easily interchangeable. Do we think it's possible to trade any of them at this point? Martin probably has the most trade value as he still performs like a #4 or 5. Boedker and Hansen probably have little value and might not even be claimed if we were to waive them. Do we wait until a team maybe is desperate closer to the deadline or are we stuck with them?

Paul Martin at this point would be impossible to trade. He's missed pretty much half the season and has had arguably two setbacks from the ankle injury he had a procedure on during the off-season. That combined with his age, another year on his deal at 4.85 mil, and you have a recipe for a currently untradeable asset. Until he can get back into the lineup and show that he's healthy and solid once more, I wouldn't expect them to be able to trade him. The only way Ward and/or Hansen get dealt at the deadline is if they need to move a contract back for roster limit purposes. It won't be for cap reasons or contract slots but pretty much solely for the 23 man roster limit. Boedker is someone the team is stuck with at this point. They could buy him out in the off-season but that only makes sense if they plan on using the two million they'd save on the cap by doing so. The only two trade scenarios that would be available involving Boedker would be if they'd be taking back a somewhat similar type of asset or package him with a valuable asset to move him? Maybe a higher cap player with one less year on his deal like say Jason Spezza or Jori Lehtera who are just as bad or worse than Boedker but cost more with a year less if it's the latter or package him with someone like Pavelski or Hertl or Braun if it's the former. All the Boedker scenarios are off-season though and won't happen now or at the deadline.

 

[Sysreq]

Paul Martin at this point would be impossible to trade. He's missed pretty much half the season and has had arguably two setbacks from the ankle injury he had a procedure on during the off-season. That combined with his age, another year on his deal at 4.85 mil, and you have a recipe for a currently untradeable asset. Until he can get back into the lineup and show that he's healthy and solid once more, I wouldn't expect them to be able to trade him. The only way Ward and/or Hansen get dealt at the deadline is if they need to move a contract back for roster limit purposes. It won't be for cap reasons or contract slots but pretty much solely for the 23 man roster limit. Boedker is someone the team is stuck with at this point. They could buy him out in the off-season but that only makes sense if they plan on using the two million they'd save on the cap by doing so. The only two trade scenarios that would be available involving Boedker would be if they'd be taking back a somewhat similar type of asset or package him with a valuable asset to move him? Maybe a higher cap player with one less year on his deal like say Jason Spezza or Jori Lehtera who are just as bad or worse than Boedker but cost more with a year less if it's the latter or package him with someone like Pavelski or Hertl or Braun if it's the former. All the Boedker scenarios are off-season though and won't happen now or at the deadline.

I dunno, I think the Boedker, Hansen and Martin trades all have potential value under the right conditions.

Boedker at 2 mil for 2 year (ie with 50% retention) is actually not a bad deal. Most teams can gamble 2 million in cap for the possibility he bounces back. He is only a few season away from getting offers of 5 plus after his time in Arizona. Sometimes players don’t fit in with a coach or a system.

Hansen has a ton of playoff experience and would still be a great depth add at the TDL.

Martin was and is a fantastic mentor. Burns doesn’t get that Norris without him. He basically turned Burns around defensively. I am sure a rebuilding team, looking for mentor ship of a young, future star, would love to have him around for a few years.

Again, each has value, it’s just not universal. Like Martin and Boedker for Kane - hell no. But can you get picks and prospects for them while getting that cap off the books? Absolutely. They have SOME utility value is my point. DW just needs to find the right fits.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I dunno, I think the Boedker, Hansen and Martin trades all have potential value under the right conditions.

Boedker at 2 mil for 2 year (ie with 50% retention) is actually not a bad deal. Most teams can gamble 2 million in cap for the possibility he bounces back. He is only a few season away from getting offers of 5 plus after his time in Arizona. Sometimes players don’t fit in with a coach or a system.

Hansen has a ton of playoff experience and would still be a great depth add at the TDL.

Martin was and is a fantastic mentor. Burns doesn’t get that Norris without him. He basically turned Burns around defensively. I am sure a rebuilding team, looking for mentor ship of a young, future star, would love to have him around for a few years.

Again, each has value, it’s just not universal. Like Martin and Boedker for Kane - hell no. But can you get picks and prospects for them while getting that cap off the books? Absolutely. They have SOME utility value is my point. DW just needs to find the right fits.

I agree that they have potential value under the right conditions but I don't think it's for the reasons you state. In Boedker's case, trading him at 50% doesn't seem realistic to me. Given his career to date, I would think the better teams in the league would be very hesitant seeing a player play on a bad team for so long then struggle on a good team. Even at two mil that's a risk on a player with a pretty glaring red flag attached to him. And from a Sharks perspective, why split the bill to have him play somewhere else? That only makes sense if they're going to invest those cap savings elsewhere and I don't think they're set up to spend to the cap in the short term. I think Boedker may have financial trade value to floor teams given that his cap figure is one mil higher than his salary in the next two seasons. You'll still get only like a 4th or a 5th but at least it's gone and you're not paying for it the next two years.

As for Hansen, he has deadline value in the 3rd or 4th round range but I don't see the team doing that. This team will either keep him and let the deal expire or they will trade him as part of a deal to rent someone else because they will need the roster spot.

As for Martin, he has no value while he remains injured.

 

[Herschel]

I dunno, I think the Boedker, Hansen and Martin trades all have potential value under the right conditions.

Martin was and is a fantastic mentor. Burns doesn’t get that Norris without him. He basically turned Burns around defensively. I am sure a rebuilding team, looking for mentor ship of a young, future star, would love to have him around for a few years.

I keep coming back to Toronto but they will be looking at the right side, not the left.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I keep coming back to Toronto but they will be looking at the right side, not the left.

If Martin was healthy, I could see a team like Washington or the Rangers or the Islanders or maybe the Pens being interested in him. But without Martin being in the lineup and showing that he's past his ankle problems, there will be other options for those teams. Maybe a team takes a shot with him during the off-season when he's entering his last season on his contract.

 

[Mugzy97]

I keep coming back to Toronto but they will be looking at the right side, not the left.

Would be interested in Braun, how open are you guys to moving him? What are your needs? Good luck tonight, I guess we haven't beat you guys in toronto for 16 years.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Would be interested in Braun, how open are you guys to moving him? What are your needs? Good luck tonight, I guess we haven't beat you guys in toronto for 16 years.

There isn't much interest in moving Braun right now but I would think it's possible in the off-season especially if either a 1st round pick is involved or you're taking someone like Boedker off our hands.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Would be interested in Braun, how open are you guys to moving him? What are your needs? Good luck tonight, I guess we haven't beat you guys in toronto for 16 years.

Our needs are: high-end young talent, early picks, and a goal scoring winger. I would be open to moving Braun in the right deal.

 

[Mugzy97]

Our needs are: high-end young talent, early picks, and a goal scoring winger. I would be open to moving Braun in the right deal.

Well obviously were not moving our HIGH end young talent, but we have a plethora of wingers. Wouldn't be too thrilled about giving up a 1st in a deal for Braun but I would do a 2nd.

I would trade JVR for Braun straight up, but obviously he is a pending UFA so I don't know if that would interest you. Not likely to take back Boedker when we'll have a few huge signings coming up.

Maybe a 2nd (don't care which one), Leivo, and Carrick to fill the hole left by Braun?

Just spitballing.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well obviously were not moving our HIGH end young talent, but we have a plethora of wingers. Wouldn't be too thrilled about giving up a 1st in a deal for Braun but I would do a 2nd.

I would trade JVR for Braun straight up, but obviously he is a pending UFA so I don't know if that would interest you. Not likely to take back Boedker when we'll have a few huge signings coming up.

Maybe a 2nd (don't care which one), Leivo, and Carrick to fill the hole left by Braun?

Just spitballing.

Leivo, Carrick, and a 2nd does absolutely nothing for this team. That's just a bunch of spare parts.

 

[Mugzy97]

Leivo, Carrick, and a 2nd does absolutely nothing for this team. That's just a bunch of spare parts.

Fair enough. Can you tell me what you think it would take? What are your thoughts on the JVR offer?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Fair enough. Can you tell me what you think it would take? What are your thoughts on JVR?

The only thing that's going to entice me to move Braun is a 1st or the taking of Boedker. As for JVR, he'd be a fine addition but it's not going to be at the cost of Braun and chances are that the Leafs aren't going to rent JVR out either when they benefit greatly from having him.

 

[Mugzy97]

chances are that the Leafs aren't going to rent JVR out either when they benefit greatly from having him.

JVR is great for putting the puck in the net consistently, there is no doubt. The issue we are going to have is he is going to need a raise and we have a lot of firepower already but also other contracts to sign. I'm guessing we could sacrifice his offence for a good defender and not feel too many ill-effects of losing his numbers. If we are able to move him a for a good top 4 D I would hope we do it because it is obvious that we need defence more than offence.

Would you consider Boedker a negative value contract? I didn't realize he seems to have fallen off quite a bit?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

JVR is great for putting the puck in the net consistently, there is no doubt. The issue we are going to have is he is going to need a raise and we have a lot of firepower already but also other contracts to sign. I'm guessing we could sacrifice his offence for a good defender and not feel too many ill-effects of losing his numbers. If we are able to move him a for a good top 4 D I would hope we do it because it is obvious that we need defence more than offence.

Would you consider Boedker a negative value contract? I didn't realize he seems to have fallen off quite a bit?

I expect JVR to walk but I don't expect the Leafs to trade him either. They're going to use him for the playoff run. And no team is going to trade a non-rental top four d-man for a rental JVR. Chances are the Leafs are going to go after someone like Mike Green for no real important roster assets.

As for Boedker, he's a negative value player and to most teams, he is likely a negative value contract. However, I think he is a positive value contract to floor teams based on his salary compared to his cap hit. A floor team will probably like the fact that he's making three mil the next two years while being a four mil cap hit. They won't get much more than a 4th or 5th for him but I'm cool with that if it were to happen since he can't produce consistently here.

 

[Used As A Shield]

JVR is great for putting the puck in the net consistently, there is no doubt. The issue we are going to have is he is going to need a raise and we have a lot of firepower already but also other contracts to sign. I'm guessing we could sacrifice his offence for a good defender and not feel too many ill-effects of losing his numbers. If we are able to move him a for a good top 4 D I would hope we do it because it is obvious that we need defence more than offence.

Would you consider Boedker a negative value contract? I didn't realize he seems to have fallen off quite a bit?

I am not sure if he regressed, never was that good to begin with, or just doesn't fit in Deboer's system, but quite a few players we get just seem to never fit.