Proposal: Pre-draft Blockbuster: OTT/COL/EDM

Nick1219

Registered User
Mar 15, 2012
1,285
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Don't see why Colorado does this. Barrie has been exceptional for them and is SEVERELY underrated this season.

Think Colorado stays pat and uses that money to pay Rantanen if they don't want to be a cap team.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
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Colorado
Like I mentioned in the reply, it's a short term gamble for the Avs. There's the assumption Lucic will be either compliance bought-out or LTIRed by the time his game deteriorates to the level of redundancy.

You're really not doing a very good job of selling me on this idea. I'd still much rather keep Barrie, Timmins, and the potential top 5 pick, and not get Karlsson and ~$24m in dead cap space.
 

shadow1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
16,591
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From an Avs perspective...don’t care if he is Karlsson, Barrie + Timmins + 1st is too rich for my blood.
 

yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
3,441
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Assuming the Karlsson deal is still a likely event this summer I still see the Avs as a bit of a darkhorse with some of the groundwork already laid via the Duchene trade. The Senators seem adamant on purging significant salary commitments and the Avs have got an abundance of both cap space and young, enticing trade assets including the Ottawa 1st acquired in the Duchene deal.

:avs
RD Erik Karlsson (7.5)
LW Milan Lucic (6.0)
2019 NJ 3rd (via EDM)

:sens
LD Oscar Klefbom (4.1)
LW Colin Wilson (3.937)
RD Connor Timmins
2019 Sens 1st (via COL)

:edmonton
RD Tyson Barrie (5.5)
RW Bobby Ryan (5.5*)

*OTT retains 1.75m

The Avs (add approximately $4m, pre-Karlsson extension)

I believe the deal makes sense for the Avs because it gives them a legitimate #1 defenseman. Tyson Barrie, while capable of providing the production, isn't a defender who drives the play at the level Karlsson does. With him under contract moving forward it would give the Avs the ability to slowly develop Cale Makar.

Milan Lucic, while owning one of the league's more questionable contracts, is still a quality power forward when on his game. This is essentially the Avs gaining a 2019 3rd to flip him via the Avs for Ryan, who merely fits a current need better for the Oilers. For the Avs, he's essentially an upgrade on Colin Wilson who'd be moved to Ottawa in the deal to balance contracts.

The Sens (clear approximately $5m short-term, significant long-term)

Pierre Dorion has shown twice this season that he's not afraid to find creative ways to make deals happen. Twice he's used third teams to solve cap problems and meet the requirements of both GMs to get those deals done. I think the Karlsson deal will ultimately be used to get out from under the Bobby Ryan deal for good, but as the trade deadline suggested, it's easier said than done.

As for the return, the Sens receive two quality high-end pieces on the back-end in return for the All-Star blue-liner--one of which is capable of eating significant minutes right out of the gate and is signed to a great deal for the next six seasons. Wilson is a necessary evil to move that much salary in a deal, but he's a serviceable bottom six winger who's only signed for another year. And they ultimately get the pick back, which likely hold immense value.

The Oilers (add approximately $1m)

They're finally addressing that PP RD that's been a need for some time. Oscar Klefbom is a massive investment, but the Oilers have the depth on the left side with Nurse, Sekera and Russell all capable of playing 20+ minutes a night. There's also a significant likelihood of the Oilers drafting a quality defenseman with their pick in this draft. Barrie can immediately slide into a second pairing role with heavy minutes with Connor McDavid. It's a good gamble that's likely to pay off in terms of PP production that has been a significant anchor to the Oilers' success this season.

Bobby Ryan for Milan Lucic--assuming Lucic is willing to move to Denver--moves the Oilers away from a player who just hasn't fit in the role the GM had envisioned when he was signed. The needs of the roster have changed significantly in two seasons and a struggling right shot winger like Ryan, who could possibly see a boost in production with one of the Oilers' centers. They essentially pay the 3rd to chop $500k off their payroll and lose a year of term.

Sorry for the novel, but it's a complicated deal that required some thought.

Thoughts?

Edmonton here...i don't hate it.
 

Freudian

Clearly deranged
Jul 3, 2003
50,443
17,252
I don't think Avs will give up three valuable assets for one year of Karlsson and the toxic contract of Lucic. Would pretty much completely derail the rebuild when EK walks in the summer of 2019.
 

yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
3,441
828
This is
a) Good for the Sens
b) OK for the Oil
c) Bad for the Avs

The Avs take on Lucic and only get potentially one season of EK for that haul. Rough.

I think the assumption is that Karlsson signs an extension
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
38,626
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You're really not doing a very good job of selling me on this idea. I'd still much rather keep Barrie, Timmins, and the potential top 5 pick, and not get Karlsson and ~$24m in dead cap space.
It depends what you're aiming for as an Avs fan. Like I said, the idea of getting Karlsson is to improve substantially in the short term--within the window of MacKinnon's current deal. The Avs as they stand with Barrie and Johnson are a middle of the pack team at the very most, with Barrie poised for a pay raise in the not too distant future. If the goal is to collect more young assets then it's probably selling off more assets as opposed to improving the roster with saavy adds. Personally I see a team with a Hart Trophy nominee and the ability to add Erik Karlsson. That launches them into borderline contender status with the young pieces they currently have.

If you're going to see those adds as a negative, I'm not going to sway you one way or another despite the fact it's the Avs ultimately getting the 27 year old future HOFer in the deal. In addition to the post you quoted which describes the potential outs of the Lucic cap commitment, it should be noted that Lucic scored 20 points more than Landeskog did last year and two more the year before that. He's hardly done as an NHL and currently brings more to the table than either Bobby Ryan or Colin Wilson. As a short term add, he's an improvement to the Avs roster.

The assumption is the Avs extend #65 in this deal, but the price they pay is relative to an unsigned Erik Karlsson. If the idea is the Avs continue to sit on their hands and collect more futures, I have to say it's probably not impossible the Avs regress again next season after seeing some unexpected success this year not unlike what the Oilers have experienced this year.
 

Patagonia

Keep Whining
Jan 6, 2017
7,624
3,246
Assuming the Karlsson deal is still a likely event this summer I still see the Avs as a bit of a darkhorse with some of the groundwork already laid via the Duchene trade. The Senators seem adamant on purging significant salary commitments and the Avs have got an abundance of both cap space and young, enticing trade assets including the Ottawa 1st acquired in the Duchene deal.

:avs
RD Erik Karlsson (7.5)
LW Milan Lucic (6.0)
2019 NJ 3rd (via EDM)

:sens
LD Oscar Klefbom (4.1)
LW Colin Wilson (3.937)
RD Connor Timmins
2019 Sens 1st (via COL)

:edmonton
RD Tyson Barrie (5.5)
RW Bobby Ryan (5.5*)

*OTT retains 1.75m

AVs and Oilers should trade amongst themselves which will result in better returns then dumping a 1 year contract and negative value Ryan.

Oilers
Barrie
Wilson

AVs
Klefboom
2019 - 3rd NJD

AVs eliminate another possible EK destination which lowers his value deeper into next season. If the Sens get desperate and dump him, the draft pick gets higher and avoid paying EK and Lucic massive contracts. Oilers are just swapping cap dumps. They still get Barrie and keep Lucic which is likely the player they prefer anyways. Anyways, Sens fans believe they were offered more by LVK, but don't believe they will revisit the trade.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,782
3,986
Colorado
It depends what you're aiming for as an Avs fan. Like I said, the idea of getting Karlsson is to improve substantially in the short term--within the window of MacKinnon's current deal. The Avs as they stand with Barrie and Johnson are a middle of the pack team at the very most, with Barrie poised for a pay raise in the not too distant future. If the goal is to collect more young assets then it's probably selling off more assets as opposed to improving the roster with saavy adds. Personally I see a team with a Hart Trophy nominee and the ability to add Erik Karlsson. That launches them into borderline contender status with the young pieces they currently have.

If you're going to see those adds as a negative, I'm not going to sway you one way or another despite the fact it's the Avs ultimately getting the 27 year old future HOFer in the deal. In addition to the post you quoted which describes the potential outs of the Lucic cap commitment, it should be noted that Lucic scored 20 points more than Landeskog did last year and two more the year before that. He's hardly done as an NHL and currently brings more to the table than either Bobby Ryan or Colin Wilson. As a short term add, he's an improvement to the Avs roster.

The assumption is the Avs extend #65 in this deal, but the price they pay is relative to an unsigned Erik Karlsson. If the idea is the Avs continue to sit on their hands and collect more futures, I have to say it's probably not impossible the Avs regress again next season after seeing some unexpected success this year not unlike what the Oilers have experienced this year.

The Avs as they stand are middle of the pack, sure. EJ and Barrie are a good #2 and a pretty good #3, who aren't getting any younger. But, have you seen Zadorov this year? He's only 22, and is probably about a 4 right now, but there have been games when he's been a monster. What about 19 year old Girard? He isn't putting up crazy numbers, but the kid has some elite skills for a 19 year old, on both sides of the ice. And what about Makar and Timmins? When do they join the team and start contributing? Have we seen the best of Lindholm and Nameth? What I'm saying is that the Avs D looks like it's finally decent, or will be soon. If we can't afford to keep him, I'd rather move Barrie for a forward who can solidify a second scoring line, than give up Barrie++ for an upgrade on Barrie.

And, last year was a dumpster fire in Colorado, not going to give Lucic that much credit for outscoring Landeskog.

I also agree that, at some point, the Avs need to do something to improve the team. But, they have so many rookies, it's still a little early to make solid decisions on some of them. It makes more sense to sit on our hands right now, and see what we have. There's a ton of talent, it's just a matter of who fits where, I think. I think next off season will be the better time to make a move, since we'll have another year to evaluate them before we try to figure out what we still need.
 
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GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,150
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We shouldn't have to take on Lucic's contract. Edmonton needs to keep him.
Barrie + Ottawa 1st + Timmins for an extended Karlsson is fair.
 

GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,150
9,829
I think I would rather the Avs get Ryan retained than Lucic.

Even then I probably don't deal the Ottawa first + Timmons to upgrade from Barrie to EK unless Barrie wants $8m+ on his next deal

I would just cut edmonton out of the deal. And yes, I would also rather take Ryan's retained deal, probably a decent fit with the Avs.

EK (extended) + Ryan (retain 15%) for Barrie + Timmins + First.
 

KnuckChuckinTkachuk

Give'yer balls a tug
Jan 23, 2011
2,101
966
I would just cut edmonton out of the deal. And yes, I would also rather take Ryan's retained deal, probably a decent fit with the Avs.

EK (extended) + Ryan (retain 15%) for Barrie + Timmins + First.

No.. no and no. You dont get an extended Karlsson and retained Ryan for that... if thats the case, you trade Karlsson separately.
 

KnuckChuckinTkachuk

Give'yer balls a tug
Jan 23, 2011
2,101
966
To respond to the first proposal. Not bad, but the only real piece that interests me is Timmins.

Timmins - Quality D prospect but not assured to be a star. Still like him though.
Ott 1st 2019 - It'll be next years pick but will it be top 5, top 10? (how many ppl predicted the Avs to get a top 5 pick this year... yeah, things change fast ppl)
Wilson - Meh, serviceable but not a piece I want back for Karlsson tbh.
Klefbom - Supposed top 4 D who is struggling this year.. so what is he, a top D or just another top 6 D finding his game. Not sold.


Would rather take a Vegas package or create a bidding war with teams and exclude Ryan all together.

From what I gather, the Avs would get Karlsson for Timmins, Wilson, Ott's 1st and Barrie.... and Ottawa doesn't even receive Barrie AKA the best piece in the deal which even then, I'm not crazy about. Also I DGAF if they take on Lucic... that shouldn't be Ottawa's concern.

Sens say no, not a generational package coming back. But very respectable attempted at a 3-way for HF standards.
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,383
21,075
No thanks from this Avs fan. Karlsson is great, but I'm not giving up Timmins + a potential top 5 pick to upgrade from Barrie to Karlsson. And Lucic is one of the last guys I want joining this team. He's old, slow and doesn't really add anything to the team that we don't already potentially have in a younger model.
Lucic is 29. Enough with the "old" shit. Seriously.
 
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GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,150
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Lucic is a declining player with like 6 more years left on his deal. Not a chance we're taking that, even if it means Karlsson.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
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Behind A Tree
Not that bad a deal but Ottawa should be getting more than that for Karlsson. If he goes to the Avs I'd want Rantanen back.
 

TMLeafs18

Registered User
Aug 7, 2015
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Canada
I hate this for Colorado.

Barrie has been lights out for them and he’s signed to a great contract.

The Ott pick is likely to be a very good one.

Timmins is trending in the right direction to be a top four dman.

All three of these pieces are young and in line with the Avs core of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Jost, Girard, Makar, Zadorov

Adding Lucics terrible contract sucks and Karlsson would be great but I’m not sure it makes the most sense since they give up Barrie who can do a lot of the same things obviously not as well but still good enough.
 
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Sting

Registered User
Feb 8, 2004
7,915
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I'd be expecting a lot more from an Ottawa perspective. B level prospects and bottom 6 players do nothing for the organization. If people want him, they better start offering up top prospects or high potential young players. This trade seems great for Colorado, though.
 

Lonewolfe2015

Rom Com Male Lead
Sponsor
Dec 2, 2007
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The upgrade from Barrie to Karlsson is not Ottawa's 1st and Timmins while taking on Lucic.

It's really that simple.
 

SenatorFrank

Registered User
Jan 8, 2014
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Ottawa
It's not bad but I think if you cut out edmonton you could appease the Avs fan base. They don't need to be involved.
If timmins is as serious a prospect as the Avs claim then it's not so bad. Is Wilson a dump or is he useful? What's his value?


Does this look better to Avs fans:

Karl + Ryan (15% retained) for Barrie + Timmins + OTT 1st + Wilson ??
 

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
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You'd have to think that Karlsson should get at least what Duchene got no?

No no he is going to be traded for picks and were going to be happy about it. No one wants a UFA to be for an entire season not even if he's in his prime and the best player in the NHL at his position. Also on HF boards, the posters know the game better than the players and Barkov is better than Laine.
 

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