Proposal: Pre-draft Blockbuster: OTT/COL/EDM

[belair]

Barrie is at least producing at a similar rate to EK that Dorion can argue he got a good player back. No way they would target Klefbom since Dorion could look like an idiot going after a guy that has major injury concerns.

What major injury concerns? His injury history isn't linked in any manner. He missed a significant amount of time in 2015 with a freak staph infection. He's out now to repair his shoulder, which is a pretty common procedure in the NHL.

The Sens would highly value a young LHD signed to that deal long term. He's a guy who's capable of stepping in and playing top pair minutes right out of the gate. There's no worry about him pricing himself out of Ottawa.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Dorian's not trading for him until Klefbom can prove he can play after his shoulder surgery. Its been nagging him since last year, thats not minor. According to Oiler fans, its been affecting his play this year. I wouldn't want to risk it.

 

[Patagonia]

Dorian's not trading for him until Klefbom can prove he can play after his shoulder surgery. Its been nagging him since last year, thats not minor. According to Oiler fans, its been affecting his play this year. I wouldn't want to risk it.

Oilers notoriously mismanage their players. Klefboom has been hurt all year, but instead of shutting him down, they rather he keeps playing. With the playoffs already out of reach, why is he still playing? AVs or Sens should trade for Klefboom, he needs a better managed team.

 

[Bender]

It's actually worse. Timmins is a better prospect than Bowers in my opinion and that 1st isn't a late first anymore, it's a project top 5-10 pick. The difference from Barrie to Karlsson could be debated endlessly if it's close to Turris to Duchene or not. But the result isn't debatable, Barrie gives us enough offense that upgrading him to Karlsson isn't worth losing two significant prospects (Timmins / 1st) AND taking on an albatross contract in the process.

I could see an argument for Barrie / Timmins / 1st (Avs) for Karlsson. But it goes out the window when you make that Ottawa's 1st and/or add in Ryan or Lucic.

Agree 100% with the first part of your post. As for the bolded, I would still pass from an Avalanche perspective. Barrie is leading the NHL in PPG for d-men this season. Karlsson is a better overall player and more dynamic but why are we adding one of our best prospects + a 1st round pick to pay Karlsson what he's going to want on his next contract??

Is the difference between Karlsson and Barrie approximately $4-5M in cap space* + a 1st rounder + Conor Timmins? I don't think it's worth it, personally not when you consider the chemistry that Barrie has with the guys on this team and Karlsson's injury history, there is no way I make that kind of deal. (* when each sign their new long-term deals - estimated Karlsson $12M per / Barrie $7.5M per)

 

[Halla]

OP an oil fan?

Lucic = Ryan (both brutal contracts)
Barrie >> Klefbom

a mid 3rd doesnt make up the difference between Barrie and klefbom. They would likely have to kick in a solid asset (Yamamoto/Bear/2018 2nd)

 

[russ99]

The only way this makes sense from an Oilers perspective is if we get Hoffman instead of Ryan, but that would mean sending a better asset than Lucic.

Plus Lucic waiving his NMC is doubtful, maybe a slight chance for Vancouver or California team.

 

[Donuts]

Bad deal for avs.

Colorado just need to wait about 2-3 years and theyll be a powerhouse in the west. Mackinnon and rantanen will be entering their prime to play along with landeskog, barrie, jost etc.

Add to their lineup their younger players of makar, timmins, 2018 picks, sens' draft pick + FAs they will attract and sign.

 

[belair]

OP an oil fan?

Lucic = Ryan (both brutal contracts)
Barrie >> Klefbom

a mid 3rd doesnt make up the difference between Barrie and klefbom. They would likely have to kick in a solid asset (Yamamoto/Bear/2018 2nd)

Klefbom is signed to a sweetheart deal for the next six years. Barrie is a UFA in two and is one of the NHL's top point producing defensemen--so his next deal is likely significantly higher. The third is probably pushing it to be quite honest from our perspective.

 

[belair]

Bad deal for avs.

Colorado just need to wait about 2-3 years and theyll be a powerhouse in the west. Mackinnon and rantanen will be entering their prime to play along with landeskog, barrie, jost etc.

Add to their lineup their younger players of makar, timmins, 2018 picks, sens' draft pick + FAs they will attract and sign.

Not really looking to start an argument but we've heard that song before when they had a Selke-caliber center and a much younger Matt Duchene on the roster among others.

 

[Halla]

Klefbom is signed to a sweetheart deal for the next six years. Barrie is a UFA in two and is one of the NHL's top point producing defensemen--so his next deal is likely significantly higher. The third is probably pushing it to be quite honest from our perspective.

a sweetheart deal doesn't mean too much when you coming off a god awful season. Klefbom needs to bounce back to show last year wasnt a fluke. Barrie holds significantly more value regardless of contract. 52pts in 59 games. thats pretty good.

 

[belair]

The only way this makes sense from an Oilers perspective is if we get Hoffman instead of Ryan, but that would mean sending a better asset than Lucic.

Plus Lucic waiving his NMC is doubtful, maybe a slight chance for Vancouver or California team.

Why is that the only way this makes sense for them? And why would Hoffman be the target when we are already getting something of need for the value we've given up? As for the NMC, we have no clue what Milan's thoughts would be, so I'm making the assumption he'd waive, simply put.

 

[belair]

a sweetheart deal doesn't mean too much when you coming off a god awful season. Klefbom needs to bounce back to show last year wasnt a fluke. Barrie holds significantly more value regardless of contract. 52pts in 59 games. thats pretty good.

The thing about this deal is we're not convincing Colorado that Klefbom is capable of a 'bounce back'. The Ottawa Senators are the one's essentially trading Barrie for Klefbom--and the Senators, assuming their ownership is behind the Karlsson deal--would value that sweetheart long-term deal very highly. And the likelihood of them extending Tyson Barrie likely in the $7-8m range long-term would probably be very low.

And it's not like Oscar Klefbom was a flash in the pan. He's been a known quantity in this league for some time. His offensive production has not always been at that level, but he's consistently been a young defenseman who can play 22+ minutes a night against the hardest competition and move the puck in the right direction. He hasn't always been put in those roles to consistently elevate his offensive numbers.

I'm not suggesting in a vacuum the two own the same values, but the contract status of both are very significant when considering them as a trade return.

 

[LTIR]

You'd have to think that Karlsson should get at least what Duchene got no?

Was Duchene a pending UFA? Did OTT recieve another cap dump?

Lets not forget Ryan is part of the deal.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Was Duchene a pending UFA? Did OTT recieve another cap dump?

Lets not forget Ryan is part of the deal.

Was Duchene a pending UFA? No
Did OTT recieve another cap dump? No
Lets not forget Ryan is part of the deal. What?

 

[PAZ]

Not really looking to start an argument but we've heard that song before when they had a Selke-caliber center and a much younger Matt Duchene on the roster among others.

Mackinnon.

 

[belair]

Mackinnon.

Yep. They had him, too. You guys were going places and then you didn't.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Yep. They had him, too. You guys were going places and then you didn't.

Mostly cause we let go major pieces, paul stastny, before mac was ready to be that number 1 talent. Like wise, we’re not trading barrie for anything short of an overpayment, dont wanna make that same mistake. Now karlsson is amazing, but his future deal and lucic’s deal will add significant cap constraint, making it harder to add even more pieces in ufa or trades.

 

[Eltuna]

Yep. They had him, too. You guys were going places and then you didn't.

I’m one of the few avs fans that actually agrees with this and would love to turn Barrie into Karlsson. Barrie really has been playing awesome lately so I can see why most don’t though. For this deal, I think the value is off for Colorado. They would be adding a net gain of around 12 million per season which has huge complications for any team, even one with huge cap space. Additionally, that pick could be gold and Timmins has become an A grade prospect. It’s too much to give up when also accepting a brutal contract.

For the oilers, I think including the 2018 1st makes more sense than Klefbom, with Ottawa getting Russel in the deal to even out salaries. Why do the oilers want to swap one good dman for another? Additionally, any dman they draft this year provides what Barrie does. For example, Barrie brings what Boqvist, Hughes, and Bouchard brings, why not keep Klefbom who plays a different kind of game and add Barrie to have a great top 4 next year. Also, if Edm fans think Lucic is better than Ryan, I would just take that part out and have him go to the avs instead. Makes things easier with Lucic’ NMC as well.

Col: Karlsson + Ryan @ 6
Edm: Barrie
Ott: Ott 2019 1st, Edm 2018 1st, Edm 2018 2nd, Nash 2018 2nd, Russel.

Ottawa gets two top 10 picks and later picks for their great scouts, Edm rounds out their top 4 and Colorado finally gets a 1D. I’m not sure if an 8th overall + 39th overall is enough for Barrie (seeing what Stepan got last year and with Barrie having an unreal season), especially when they also ditch Russel. Edm probably has to add something like a 2019 2nd as well.

 

[NyQuil]

No, it isn't true anymore. Bobby Ryan isn't the player he once was. His hands are gone. All those busted hands and fingers has taken his biggest weapon away. A healthy Bobby Ryan would require a time machine, his hands are damaged and he has no shot because of it.

Ryan still has his hands.

What the hell are you talking about?

Best hands on the team aside from Karlsson and Duchene.

Better than Stone even.

 

[TFHockey]

I’m one of the few avs fans that actually agrees with this and would love to turn Barrie into Karlsson. Barrie really has been playing awesome lately so I can see why most don’t though. For this deal, I think the value is off for Colorado. They would be adding a net gain of around 12 million per season which has huge complications for any team, even one with huge cap space. Additionally, that pick could be gold and Timmins has become an A grade prospect. It’s too much to give up when also accepting a brutal contract.

For the oilers, I think including the 2018 1st makes more sense than Klefbom, with Ottawa getting Russel in the deal to even out salaries. Why do the oilers want to swap one good dman for another? Additionally, any dman they draft this year provides what Barrie does. For example, Barrie brings what Boqvist, Hughes, and Bouchard brings, why not keep Klefbom who plays a different kind of game and add Barrie to have a great top 4 next year. Also, if Edm fans think Lucic is better than Ryan, I would just take that part out and have him go to the avs instead. Makes things easier with Lucic’ NMC as well.

Col: Karlsson + Ryan @ 6
Edm: Barrie
Ott: Ott 2019 1st, Edm 2018 1st, Edm 2018 2nd, Nash 2018 2nd, Russel.

Ottawa gets two top 10 picks and later picks for their great scouts, Edm rounds out their top 4 and Colorado finally gets a 1D. I’m not sure if an 8th overall + 39th overall is enough for Barrie (seeing what Stepan got last year and with Barrie having an unreal season), especially when they also ditch Russel. Edm probably has to add something like a 2019 2nd as well.

So Edmonton trades a 2018 1st and 2nd for Barrie? Maybe just pencil Edmonton out of this trade.

 

[Eltuna]

So Edmonton trades a 2018 1st and 2nd for Barrie? Maybe just pencil Edmonton out of this trade.

Do you think that’s unreasonable? Barrie is putting up an offensive season that’s better than any oilers dman since Coffey. He leads the league in ppg for dmen, is a prime age for defensiveman, has two years left on a great contract, fills the oilers biggest need, and the oilers have had interest in the past. He’s outscoring (including pace) every oilers player sans Mcdavid and Draisatl. Looking at the Stepan/Hamonic trades the value is fine and far from an overpayment. With the way Barrie and Klefbom seasons have gone, no way they have similar value. Barrie also has the longevity to back this season up, he’s been a premier puck mover for years now. Hell Chia traded a 1st and a 2nd for a much less proven player in Reinhart, these guys have a lot of value. You also ditch Russel in the deal. I think the 2018 1st, 2018 2nd, and 2019 2nd is better value actually taking all things into consideration.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Truly terrible for the Avs. Barrie + Potential Top 5 pick + Timmins for EK? I wouldn't even make that deal. And you want us to take Lucic... Awful.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Ryan still has his hands.

What the hell are you talking about?

Best hands on the team aside from Karlsson and Duchene.

Better than Stone even.

His shot is not dangerous anymore - no accuracy and a fraction of the power that he used to have. Nobody needs Bobby Ryan as a dangler, he's a shoot first player who no longer has a good shot. Worst contract in the NHL, and it isn't really close.

 

[NyQuil]

His shot is not dangerous anymore - no accuracy and a fraction of the power that he used to have. Nobody needs Bobby Ryan as a dangler, he's a shoot first player who no longer has a good shot. Worst contract in the NHL, and it isn't really close.

He's a very good playmaker and stickhandler and he's good at maintaining possession.

He showed that when he played a huge part in eliminating the Bruins in the first round of the playoffs last year.

I don't agree with your oversimplification.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yep. They had him, too. You guys were going places and then you didn't.

I've posted repeatedly that we didn't have the pieces in place to actually go anywhere, despite the hopes we had back then. MacKinnon's rookie season, the team looked great, no question. But we didn't have any good young players coming to bolster the team, because we didn't have much of anything left in the prospect pool, and scraping the bottom of the UFA barrel doesn't usually result in good players. We no longer need to sign UFAs to fill out the roster, because we have so much young talent still clamoring to make the team. And, on top of the guys we already have in the system, we have 9 draft picks in the first 3 rounds of the next 2 drafts (3 picks in each round), including what looks like a top 10 pick in one of them (thanks Ottawa). The odds seem to be in the Avs favor, even if nothing is guaranteed to work out.