Proposal: Pre-draft Blockbuster: OTT/COL/EDM

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
7,061
4,456
Edmonton
Edmonton here...i don't hate it.

Really? We take on Bobby Ryan? Lucic can still put up 50 points. Bobby Ryan's contract is a black pit of despair.

27 points @ $7.25 Million. Until 2022. Are you kidding you don't hate this?

No chance Edmonton takes on that contract. As soon as Bobby Ryan's name is mentioned that kills the deal. Fans of the Avs think I am overstating this? Great, YOU take on that contract.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,789
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Colorado
It's not bad but I think if you cut out edmonton you could appease the Avs fan base. They don't need to be involved.
If timmins is as serious a prospect as the Avs claim then it's not so bad. Is Wilson a dump or is he useful? What's his value?


Does this look better to Avs fans:

Karl + Ryan (15% retained) for Barrie + Timmins + OTT 1st + Wilson ??

I'm still a no for the Avs. The Avs are now giving up more, and essentially getting the same thing back. The only advantage I give Ryan is that his horrible contract is 1 year shorter. I also don't really have much interest in giving up what it would take to trade for Karlsson (see above).

But, to answer your question, Colin Wilson is useful to a point. When he's been healthy and playing well, he reminds me of someone like Jamie McGinn. Middle 6er who, in the right situation (2nd line?), can probably score 15-20 goals and have 40-50 points, but is probably closer to 10g/15a in a bottom 6 role. Doesn't shy away from contact. I'd say he's on the cusp of being overpaid for his skills, but if you need a 15-20 goal 2nd line winger, $4m is about fair. The Avs just don't have the 2nd line to let him play that role, and we have a bunch of young guys who deserve the playing time.
 

yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
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Really? We take on Bobby Ryan? Lucic can still put up 50 points. Bobby Ryan's contract is a black pit of despair.

27 points @ $7.25 Million. Until 2022. Are you kidding you don't hate this?

No chance Edmonton takes on that contract. As soon as Bobby Ryan's name is mentioned that kills the deal. Fans of the Avs think I am overstating this? Great, YOU take on that contract.

Bobby Ryan can be moved out with an asset to a team with cap space, now. Lucic has a complete NMC for 3 more years. There is more light at the end of the tunnel with the Ryan deal
 

SenatorFrank

Registered User
Jan 8, 2014
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Ottawa
I'm still a no for the Avs. The Avs are now giving up more, and essentially getting the same thing back. The only advantage I give Ryan is that his horrible contract is 1 year shorter. I also don't really have much interest in giving up what it would take to trade for Karlsson (see above).

But, to answer your question, Colin Wilson is useful to a point. When he's been healthy and playing well, he reminds me of someone like Jamie McGinn. Middle 6er who, in the right situation (2nd line?), can probably score 15-20 goals and have 40-50 points, but is probably closer to 10g/15a in a bottom 6 role. Doesn't shy away from contact. I'd say he's on the cusp of being overpaid for his skills, but if you need a 15-20 goal 2nd line winger, $4m is about fair. The Avs just don't have the 2nd line to let him play that role, and we have a bunch of young guys who deserve the playing time.

Ok thanks, basically sounds like a cheaper Bobby Ryan
 

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
7,061
4,456
Edmonton
Bobby Ryan can be moved out with an asset to a team with cap space, now. Lucic has a complete NMC for 3 more years. There is more light at the end of the tunnel with the Ryan deal

Well this year is Lucic's absolute worst. Why not wait to see if he can return to 50+ points next year?

Bobby Ryan is never returning to form. He's done. Lucic at least has some gas left in the tank. Also he is over a million cheaper.

Ryan might have the worst contract in the league.
 
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Lonewolfe2015

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no chance trading barrie +++to get karlsson is essentially trading turris+++ to get duchene. colorado isnt that stupid

It's actually worse. Timmins is a better prospect than Bowers in my opinion and that 1st isn't a late first anymore, it's a project top 5-10 pick. The difference from Barrie to Karlsson could be debated endlessly if it's close to Turris to Duchene or not. But the result isn't debatable, Barrie gives us enough offense that upgrading him to Karlsson isn't worth losing two significant prospects (Timmins / 1st) AND taking on an albatross contract in the process.

I could see an argument for Barrie / Timmins / 1st (Avs) for Karlsson. But it goes out the window when you make that Ottawa's 1st and/or add in Ryan or Lucic.
 
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SenatorFrank

Registered User
Jan 8, 2014
426
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Ottawa
Well this year is Lucic's absolute worst. Why not wait to see if he can return to 50+ points next year?

Bobby Ryan is never returning to form. He's done. Lucic at least has some gas left in the tank. Also he is over a million cheaper.

Ryan might have the worst contract in the league.


Ryan's form isn't the problem, it's that he can't stay healthy. He can still play and has a place in the NHL as a middle 6 forward the problem is that hes paid like a top line player.

If the sens were willing to retain a portion of his contract I'm sure you'd find a handful of suitors but Melnyk will never accept to do that and that's why he's impossible to move. #Melnykout
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
37,317
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Edmonton, Alberta
Not a chance in hell I'd do this for the Avs. The identity of the team is youth, speed, and skill. None of which Milan Lucic has. Don't care that Karlsson would be coming back, I don't want him. I'm not remotely interested in paying Karlsson ~12M per season for the next 7 years given his injury issues. Phenomenal defensemen but don't want that worry.

Plus, that Sens pick is a gold mine. If the Sens want it back, the only thing I'd accept is Mark Stone.
 
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AllAboutAvs

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Not a chance in hell I'd do this for the Avs. The identity of the team is youth, speed, and skill. None of which Milan Lucic has. Don't care that Karlsson would be coming back, I don't want him. I'm not remotely interested in paying Karlsson ~12M per season for the next 7 years given his injury issues. Phenomenal defensemen but don't want that worry.

Plus, that Sens pick is a gold mine. If the Sens want it back, the only thing I'd accept is Mark Stone.
Agree 100% with this.
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,417
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That would make him the 4th oldest Av this season. He's too old for this team, whether you like it or not.
Being 29 doesn't make you old, whether you like it or not. And if having players in their late 20's is too old for any team,this sport isn't long for this world. I'm not saying Lucic is anything they need or want, but every single team in professional sports HAS to have some veterans. Trying to spin it like someone that's 29 is too old to be on any rebuilding team is just plain stupid.
 
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WingsMJN2965

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Oct 13, 2017
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As far as three way trades go it's not horrible... But COL isn't giving up what will probably be a surefire top 5 pick in 2019.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
37,317
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Edmonton, Alberta
Being 29 doesn't make you old, whether you like it or not. And if having players in their late 20's is too old for any team,this sport isn't long for this world. I'm not saying Lucic is anything they need or want, but every single team in professional sports HAS to have some veterans. Trying to spin it like someone that's 29 is too old to be on any rebuilding team is just plain stupid.
Someone with Lucic's build and physical wear and tear at age 29 is too old for my liking. Power forwards don't age well in this league, save for the very rare few. Lucic is not going to be part of that select few.
 
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topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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Well this year is Lucic's absolute worst. Why not wait to see if he can return to 50+ points next year?

Bobby Ryan is never returning to form. He's done. Lucic at least has some gas left in the tank. Also he is over a million cheaper.

Ryan might have the worst contract in the league.
Far better player than Lucic,you seem to forget Ryan has been injuried most of the season...When he is healthy Ryan is the far far better player period
 

CaptainCrunch67

Registered User
Aug 23, 2005
6,472
1,063
I can't see Colorado being interested in that Lucic deal or in dealing for a soon to be UFA defenseman that wants top of the league money to sign.
 

yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
3,441
828
Someone with Lucic's build and physical wear and tear at age 29 is too old for my liking. Power forwards don't age well in this league, save for the very rare few. Lucic is not going to be part of that select few.

it's not Lucic's speed that is the problem, it's his hands
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
32,185
12,354
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Far better player than Lucic,you seem to forget Ryan has been injuried most of the season...When he is healthy Ryan is the far far better player period

That's simply untrue. Lucic has had a horrible season, but Bobby Ryan is a former goal scorer whose shot is gone. He's Dany Heatley. Lucic needs to work on his foot speed for next year, and has committed to doing so publicly by changing his routine this summer. Players can bounce back from a bad year when they still have the tools to do the job. Bobby Ryan doesn't have the tools to do the job any more.
 
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topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
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Untrue. He's been fighting the puck a bit, but that's probably confidence. He's always had okay hands, he just is rushing it now - even before Christmas, his "hands" were okay. It was keeping up with the play that was the biggest issue.
No its true ,Ryan is far more skilled than Lucic ...Ryan,s biggest issue is staying healthy.... Like i have said before has had so many broken hands and fingers we have lost count in Ottawa,he has been playing games where he said he cant shoot because of it...You can think what you want but no way i would take a Lucic over a healthy Ryan
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
32,185
12,354
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
No its true ,Ryan is far more skilled than Lucic ...Ryan,s biggest issue is staying healthy.... Like i have said before has had so many broken hands and fingers we have lost count in Ottawa,he has been playing games where he said he cant shoot because of it...You can think what you want but no way i would take a Lucic over a healthy Ryan
No, it isn't true anymore. Bobby Ryan isn't the player he once was. His hands are gone. All those busted hands and fingers has taken his biggest weapon away. A healthy Bobby Ryan would require a time machine, his hands are damaged and he has no shot because of it.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,789
3,994
Colorado
Being 29 doesn't make you old, whether you like it or not. And if having players in their late 20's is too old for any team,this sport isn't long for this world. I'm not saying Lucic is anything they need or want, but every single team in professional sports HAS to have some veterans. Trying to spin it like someone that's 29 is too old to be on any rebuilding team is just plain stupid.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension before you act so sanctimonious. I said that Lucic is too old for this team, not that 29 is too old for any team. How many power forwards with 800+ NHL games on their resume are able to play at a high level into their early 30s? Not too many, right? So, how does he make any sense for the youngest team in the league? I'd much rather give that playing time to Greer, who might actually see NHL ice in the 2020-21 season.
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
No, it isn't true anymore. Bobby Ryan isn't the player he once was. His hands are gone. All those busted hands and fingers has taken his biggest weapon away. A healthy Bobby Ryan would require a time machine, his hands are damaged and he has no shot because of it.
Even without the shot Ryan is still the far better skilled winger,he can still dangle and pass far far better than Lucic could ever....Ryan has as many points as Lucic in 20 less games.....Yet you seem to think he is better??
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
38,643
21,839
Canada
AVs and Oilers should trade amongst themselves which will result in better returns then dumping a 1 year contract and negative value Ryan.

Oilers
Barrie
Wilson

AVs
Klefboom
2019 - 3rd NJD

AVs eliminate another possible EK destination which lowers his value deeper into next season. If the Sens get desperate and dump him, the draft pick gets higher and avoid paying EK and Lucic massive contracts. Oilers are just swapping cap dumps. They still get Barrie and keep Lucic which is likely the player they prefer anyways. Anyways, Sens fans believe they were offered more by LVK, but don't believe they will revisit the trade.
I think this is a possibility this summer seeing the lack of LH depth on the Avs roster currently.

A swap of Klefbom and Barrie could make some sense with some added value from Edmonton's end. Taking Wilson makes no sense from our end considering we're pretty tight to the cap with the McDavid extension kicking in.
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
Really? We take on Bobby Ryan? Lucic can still put up 50 points. Bobby Ryan's contract is a black pit of despair.

27 points @ $7.25 Million. Until 2022. Are you kidding you don't hate this?

No chance Edmonton takes on that contract. As soon as Bobby Ryan's name is mentioned that kills the deal. Fans of the Avs think I am overstating this? Great, YOU take on that contract.
Or we have Lucic 31 point in 72 games as apposed to Ryan,s 51 games played and 27 points.....Ryan>Lucic
 

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