Proposal: Pre-draft Blockbuster: OTT/COL/EDM

[dahrougem2]

it's not Lucic's speed that is the problem, it's his hands

No, it's most definitely Lucic's lack of speed.

 

[belair]

Even without the shot Ryan is still the far better skilled winger,he can still dangle and pass far far better than Lucic could ever....Ryan has as many points as Lucic in 20 less games.....Yet you seem to think he is better??

You mean this year--the year he's had his career's longest scoring draught? Prior to this season, which has been a write-off, Lucic has been a consistent 50 point scorer prior to this season and is still one of the league most physical power-forwards.

In terms of what they can bring to the table now, yes--absolutely, Milan Lucic is the better player. But from an Edmonton perspective, Bobby Ryan fits the current roster needs more than Lucic does--especially if there's a possibility of them bringing back Patrick Maroon in the off-season.

Ryan has a series of hand injuries that have him shying away from shooting the puck, which was his bread and butter as a younger player. Because of that Bobby Ryan has seen TWO consecutive years of poor offensive production. He is a more significant risk to not have a return to form than Lucic.

 

[topshelf15]

You mean this year--the year he's had his career's longest scoring draught? Prior to this season, which has been a write-off, Lucic has been a consistent 50 point scorer prior to this season and is still one of the league most physical power-forwards.

In terms of what they can bring to the table now, yes--absolutely, Milan Lucic is the better player. But from an Edmonton perspective, Bobby Ryan fits the current roster needs more than Lucic does--especially if there's a possibility of them bringing back Patrick Maroon in the off-season.

Ryan has a series of hand injuries that have him shying away from shooting the puck, which was his bread and butter as a younger player. Because of that Bobby Ryan has seen TWO consecutive years of poor offensive production. He is a more significant risk to not have a return to form than Lucic.

According to who??You ??/Ryan has the skill level that can get him back far easier than Lucic....Ryan,s skill level has been and always will be far far better than Lucic no matter how you want to spin it...Ryan can outproduce him even injured,but yet you go on about how Lucic is what ???A 6 miilion dollar paperweight??

 

[Patagonia]

I think this is a possibility this summer seeing the lack of LH depth on the Avs roster currently.

A swap of Klefbom and Barrie could make some sense with some added value from Edmonton's end. Taking Wilson makes no sense from our end considering we're pretty tight to the cap with the McDavid extension kicking in.

Wilson adds toughness the Oilers need, AVs can retain as well to make the numbers work. Don’t believe EK will extend and Ryan is simply terrible.

 

[belair]

According to who??You ??/Ryan has the skill level that can get him back far easier than Lucic....Ryan,s skill level has been and always will be far far better than Lucic no matter how you want to spin it...Ryan can outproduce him even injured,but yet you go on about how Lucic is what ???A 6 miilion dollar paperweight??

No according to trends. Bobby Ryan's production has stagnated for two consecutive years. That is a red flag.

If you actually look--Bobby Ryan is not outproducing Milan Lucic this year. He has five fewer points. And if you gave him the ability to make up those lost games, he's scoring at a rate that would barely allow him to make up those five points.

'Skill' will only get you so far if your body is not up to the task, which is the significant question regarding Bobby Ryan's ability to return to form. And if you're in the know of Bobby's struggles in recent history, it's not the only concern about him getting back there.

Lucic, on the other-hand was currently faced with the largest scoring drought of his career which disrupted a season where he was on pace to put up 50ish points while being one of the league's hitting leaders, something he does pretty much each and every year. Last year he scored 50. Year before that? 50. See where I'm going with that?

It's been 30 games since Lucic's game went off the rails. Ryan's hasn't been there for two years--and looking at his stats--he doesn't even shoot the puck anymore. Volume shooter who doesn't shoot anymore. Another red flag.

 

[belair]

Wilson adds toughness the Oilers need, AVs can retain as well to make the numbers work. Don’t believe EK will extend and Ryan is simply terrible.

The Oilers are fine for toughness. Toughness was a need circa 2015. The Oilers need a PPRD, and cheap, speedy wingers.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I think this is a possibility this summer seeing the lack of LH depth on the Avs roster currently.

A swap of Klefbom and Barrie could make some sense with some added value from Edmonton's end. Taking Wilson makes no sense from our end considering we're pretty tight to the cap with the McDavid extension kicking in.

Not interested in Klefbom for Barrie. Avs have zadorov, girard and nemeth as a solid left side. All of them are nhl players. Avs right side has more depth issues, the prospects are only 18 years old, and as much as fellow avs fans want to go young, u never want to be too young on your defense. Barrie is not going anywhere, i dont care how good makar or timmins are.

 

[bucks_oil]

You might want to work on your reading comprehension before you act so sanctimonious. I said that Lucic is too old for this team, not that 29 is too old for any team. How many power forwards with 800+ NHL games on their resume are able to play at a high level into their early 30s? Not too many, right? So, how does he make any sense for the youngest team in the league? I'd much rather give that playing time to Greer, who might actually see NHL ice in the 2020-21 season.

I dunno... when I think of the top power forwards over the years (e.g. making their living in the corners or in front of the net) I think of guys like:
Todd Bertuzzi - played until 38 and was effective (~40 points) until 36
Thomas Holmstrom - played until 39 and was effective (> 40 points) until 37
Jerome Iginla - played until 39 and was effective until 38 (>50 points)
Ryan Smyth - played until 37 and was effective until 35 (>45 points)

None of these guys were speedsters in their twenties, so if we accept that they were good without wheels from the start, what makes it likely that they disappear at the age of 30?

I just don't buy this narrative: that a power forward ages more quickly than others (for example, more quickly than a speedy dangler). To me you are more likely to be out of the league quickly if your skill set is one dimensional AND prone to injury. Skating is definitely that. Dishing and taking abuse, while staying planted in one place and swatting in rebounds? You can endure that well into your thirties.

Do you have substantive examples of consistent, top-end power forward (which Lucic was/is) where wear and tear caught up to them at age 30? Lucic doesn't even have a significant injury history.

He's not a match on McDavid's line and he's had a horrendous scoring drought, but there isn't any real reason to believe he won't bounce back with proper utilization and some time to clear his negative thoughts over the summer.

 

[Patagonia]

Not interested in Klefbom for Barrie. Avs have zadorov, girard and nemeth as a solid left side. All of them are nhl players. Avs right side has more depth issues, the prospects are only 18 years old, and as much as fellow avs fans want to go young, u never want to be too young on your defense. Barrie is not going anywhere, i dont care how good makar or timmins are.

AVs are deep with high end prospects RHD - Makar, Timmins and Meloche, but besides EJ there is nobody else NHL ready. LHD with Zadorov, Girard, Nemeth and Siemens, have played on the off wing.

Klefbom is signed long term with a reasonable deal, good size, but struggling this season. Problems related to his line mates, coaching or injuries? He can play 2nd or 3rd lines interchanging with Girard. A change in scenery might improve his play.

He would a very welcome addition to the AVs should the Oilers make him available.

 

[Freudian]

Do you have substantive examples of consistent, top-end power forward (which Lucic was/is) where wear and tear caught up to them at age 30? Lucic doesn't even have a significant injury history.

John LeClair slowed down at 30.
Kevin Stevens slowed down at 30.
Lindros obviously was a shell of his old self at that age.
Rick Nash had his last good year at 30. Three years way below that since.
Wendel Clark slowed down at 30.
Cam Neely was done at 30.

All of them were significantly better at their peak than Lucic is. Lucic can't keep up with the play at this point and he has five more years at $6M/year.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

AVs are deep with high end prospects RHD - Makar, Timmins and Meloche, but besides EJ there is nobody else NHL ready. LHD with Zadorov, Girard, Nemeth and Siemens, have played on the off wing.

Klefbom is signed long term with a reasonable deal, good size, but struggling this season. Problems related to his line mates, coaching or injuries? He can play 2nd or 3rd lines interchanging with Girard. A change in scenery might improve his play.

He would a very welcome addition to the AVs should the Oilers make him available.

i would take Klefbom, but not at the cost of anything significant. Girard, nemeth, zadorov should all play on the left side, and imo girard and zadorov have the top left spots locked up for the forseeable future. Nemeth is more than adequate as a bottom pairing LD and will be traded if our prospects overtake him. Klefbom would be a good hedge but a luxury.

 

[bucks_oil]

John LeClair slowed down at 30.
Kevin Stevens slowed down at 30.
Lindros obviously was a shell of his old self at that age.
Rick Nash had his last good year at 30. Three years way below that since.
Wendel Clark slowed down at 30.
Cam Neely was done at 30.

All of them were significantly better at their peak than Lucic is. Lucic can't keep up with the play at this point and he has five more years at $6M/year.

John LeClair had 3 more 50+ point seasons & one with 28 points in 35 games. He was hardly done.
Kevin Stevens... I might give you that one, though I'd note he had known substance abuse problems in his later career, so motivation was also an issue
Lindros had several MAJOR concussions. To my point... anyone can get injured, but Lucic has not had that issue
Rick Nash - agree this example
Wendel Clark - tied his 2nd highest goal total (32) at age 32
Cam Neely - His career was cut short by multiple injuries, he left the game at 30 with 46 points in 49 games... again, to my point. It happens to guys who have repeat (or catastrophic career ending) injuries... not to relatively healthy guys like Lucic

 

[haveandare]

This is super well thought out and plausible for a 3 way trade that moves around some big pieces and bad contracts. Only issue IMO is Avs would definitely want some assurance than they could re-sign EK.

 

[Ezekial]

You should be proud of what you accomplished here.

 

[ManofSteel55]

John LeClair slowed down at 30.
Kevin Stevens slowed down at 30.
Lindros obviously was a shell of his old self at that age.
Rick Nash had his last good year at 30. Three years way below that since.
Wendel Clark slowed down at 30.
Cam Neely was done at 30.

All of them were significantly better at their peak than Lucic is. Lucic can't keep up with the play at this point and he has five more years at $6M/year.

Stevens was done at 30 due to off ice issues. Neely and Lindros had career ending injuries. That's not a power forward issue, that happens to everyone. There's also guys like Keith Tkachuk and Mark Messier who played forever in a power forward game, there's examples of both.

 

[Freudian]

Stevens was done at 30 due to off ice issues. Neely and Lindros had career ending injuries. That's not a power forward issue, that happens to everyone. There's also guys like Keith Tkachuk and Mark Messier who played forever in a power forward game, there's examples of both.

That's just a list of the very best power forwards. If you start to include guys below that (Stewart, Ladd, Okposo) there are so many power forwards that age terribly in the NHL.

Lucic doesn't strike me as the type of power forward that age well. If anything he strikes me as one who will age terribly. Not the highest hockey IQ. Not the highest work rate. Weak skater.

Once in a while you will get a Doan, Messier and Iginla that are productive to 35 but that's certainly not the norm.

 

[ManofSteel55]

That's just a list of the very best power forwards. If you start to include guys below that (Stewart, Ladd, Okposo) there are so many power forwards that age terribly in the NHL.

Lucic doesn't strike me as the type of power forward that age well. If anything he strikes me as one who will age terribly. Not the highest hockey IQ. Not the highest work rate. Weak skater.

Once in a while you will get a Doan, Messier and Iginla that are productive to 35 but that's certainly not the norm.

Ladd was good until 34. Not many players at all are good until that age. Okposo and Stewart didn't flame out because they were power forwards.

Lucic has decent IQ, and he is a hard worker. Hits the gym harder than most in the NHL, so unless he gets hurt, the big concern will always be his skating. We'll know by this time next year if he can fix that, as he has already stated publicly that he wants to lose some size so he can be a better skater next year.

An NHL'er of any type being productive until 35 is rare. I'm not sure why only power forwards are saddled with that reputation around here.

 

[TFHockey]

That's just a list of the very best power forwards. If you start to include guys below that (Stewart, Ladd, Okposo) there are so many power forwards that age terribly in the NHL.

Lucic doesn't strike me as the type of power forward that age well. If anything he strikes me as one who will age terribly. Not the highest hockey IQ. Not the highest work rate. Weak skater.

Once in a while you will get a Doan, Messier and Iginla that are productive to 35 but that's certainly not the norm.

I honestly don't know if Lucic will age well. He may bounce back to his standard 50+ point season if he changes his training regime. He might not. However when I read things like "not the highest IQ" and "not the highest work rate" this tells me you don't know the player well.

Lucic isn't a dumb guy. He also is a workout beast. He is a wall of solid muscle. That's one of his problems, he has to slim down and lose some muscle mass. He has to work on his skating. If he can speed up a bit he can still be a solid contributing player on the wing.

I sincerely hope he can turn it around next year.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

No from Edmonton. Klefbom had a terrible year but has been injured all year. Last year he had an amazing year, would rather gamble that he will be much better after surgery.

 

[Avs44]

Ladd was good until 34. Not many players at all are good until that age. Okposo and Stewart didn't flame out because they were power forwards.

Lucic has decent IQ, and he is a hard worker. Hits the gym harder than most in the NHL, so unless he gets hurt, the big concern will always be his skating. We'll know by this time next year if he can fix that, as he has already stated publicly that he wants to lose some size so he can be a better skater next year.

An NHL'er of any type being productive until 35 is rare. I'm not sure why only power forwards are saddled with that reputation around here.

He's 32.

 

[SenatorFrank]

Is Barrie for Karl a workable basis for a deal? Can Avs and Ott fans chime in

 

[Patagonia]

Is Barrie for Karl a workable basis for a deal? Can Avs and Ott fans chime in

EK is only viable if Ryan is excluded as a Cap Dump, otherwise, there is no deal to be had...

 

[belair]

Is Barrie for Karl a workable basis for a deal? Can Avs and Ott fans chime in

Would the Senators even consider Barrie as a return? He's making $5.5m currently and in one summer you're faced with the threat of him leaving via FA unless you meet the salary demands, which doesn't sound like something Dorion would risk having happen.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I honestly don't know if Lucic will age well. He may bounce back to his standard 50+ point season if he changes his training regime. He might not. However when I read things like "not the highest IQ" and "not the highest work rate" this tells me you don't know the player well.

Lucic isn't a dumb guy. He also is a workout beast. He is a wall of solid muscle. That's one of his problems, he has to slim down and lose some muscle mass. He has to work on his skating. If he can speed up a bit he can still be a solid contributing player on the wing.

I sincerely hope he can turn it around next year.

The guy is 29, been in the nhl for almost a decade, how many players become better skaters at that age. He says all the right things though, so i guess its good that he knows his deficiencies.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Would the Senators even consider Barrie as a return? He's making $5.5m currently and in one summer you're faced with the threat of him leaving via FA unless you meet the salary demands, which doesn't sound like something Dorion would risk having happen.

Barrie is at least producing at a similar rate to EK that Dorion can argue he got a good player back. No way they would target Klefbom since Dorion could look like an idiot going after a guy that has major injury concerns.