Matthews vs Kucherov

[McFlyingV]

OK then what other criteria would you use to show Matthews is better now? (aside from quoting Bobby Mac)

Is that not enough proof for you?

 

[Semantics]

The Leafs would be a worse team with Kucherov instead of Matthews, so this one's a no-brainer.

 

[ColonelCanuck]

Kucherov by far

 

[ColonelCanuck]

Matthews for me. Kucherov has had an insane 8 month stretch (historically one of the best hot streaks in the lockout era) but I expect he'll eventually cool off and come back to earth as a 35-40g 70-80 point winger. His on ice shooting percentage and power play scoring have both been way too high to sustain over much longer.

I think Matthews will land in a similar place in terms of production, but plays the more important position and does it right on both sides of the puck. Dude is like Jonathan Toews with Patrick Kane's puck skills.

Coming "back to earth" and being a 70-80 pt man is better than Matthews who may only just break 75pts

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Coming "back to earth" and being a 70-80 pt man is better than Matthews who may only just break 75pts

How is being a 70 point man better than 75 points?

 

[McFlyingV]

How is being a 70 point man better than 75 points?

You won't have to worry about that Kucherov's not coming back down to 70 points let alone 75. He's got more than that in his last 52 games. This guys a 90P+ player minimum going forward imo.

 

[daver]

I spoke nothing of pace, but Matthews hasn’t been playing his best hockey. That stretches beyond his injury, back to the California road trip. I don’t look at the stats, I evaluate their level of play. Stats don’t account for the fact Nylander has been snake bitten, Stamkos is hot, and Namestnikov is much better than Zach Hyman. These are variables beyond the players control, thus, I evaluate the individual and their effect on a game.

So Matthews was playing his best hockey at the start of the year and has since cooled off but his play at the start cannot be classified as a hot streak?

Seems like when a player can play their best hockey more often than not, that makes them better, no? And great players do not need a "linemate excuse".

Kucherov was better last year and is better this year. There is no argument.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You won't have to worry about that Kucherov's not coming back down to 70 points let alone 75. He's got more than that in his last 52 games.

I agree. Doesn't change the fact that he didn't think his post through at all

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So Matthews was playing his best hockey at the start of the year and has since cooled off but his play at the start cannot be classified as a hot streak?

Seems like when a player can play their best hockey more often than not, that makes them better, no? And great players do not need a "linemate excuse".

Kucherov was better last year and is better this year. There is no argument.

His play at the start of the year when he was on pace for more than 120 points was a hot streak. His play as of late has been a cold streak

 

[ColonelCanuck]

How is being a 70 point man better than 75 points?

Kuch's floor is 70pts. Matthews' floor is much lower...

 

[42]

Is that not enough proof for you?

Ah yes, this does it. Thank you.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Kuch's floor is 70pts. Matthews' floor is much lower...

Kucherov is going to break 90 points
Matthews is going to be close to 90

 

[ColonelCanuck]

X to doubt

 

[sparxx87]

So Matthews was playing his best hockey at the start of the year and has since cooled off but his play at the start cannot be classified as a hot streak?

Seems like when a player can play their best hockey more often than not, that makes them better, no? And great players do not need a "linemate excuse".

Kucherov was better last year and is better this year. There is no argument.

Better point producer under the circumstances, sure.

Stamkos and Kucherov are dynamite together, no question... but if I’m measuring everything an individual brings to the table and everything they can do for you as a hockey player, I take Auston Matthews over Nikita Kucherov.

If you’re evaluating Matthews solely by point production, you’re missing a lot of what makes him great.

 

[djpatm]

Kucherov.

 

[Sky04]

We’re 20 games in, Kucherov is on a hot streak and Matthews just missed 10+ days. Stamkos > Nylander, etc etc.

Eliminate the variables, I take the complete, elite centre.

Funny how when we were only 10 games in yet using those numbers were fine for evaluating Nylander and Matthews.

"Nylander is a PPG player"

Only when it fits the argument I guess

 

[sparxx87]

Funny how when we were only 10 games in yet using those numbers were fine for evaluating Nylander and Matthews.

"Nylander is a PPG player"

Only when it fits the argument I guess

Link me where I used a small sample size of numbers? .... I actually spoke out against them. My argument for Matthews has, and always will be his overall contribution and effect on the game.

I very seldom use these numbers at all. Don’t loop me into that. Thanks.

 

[daver]

His play at the start of the year when he was on pace for more than 120 points was a hot streak. His play as of late has been a cold streak

And Kucherov has cooled off from his 140 point pace too. His cold streak looks better than Matthews'

 

[daver]

Better point producer under the circumstances, sure.

Stamkos and Kucherov are dynamite together, no question... but if I’m measuring everything an individual brings to the table and everything they can do for you as a hockey player, I take Auston Matthews over Nikita Kucherov.

If you’re evaluating Matthews solely by point production, you’re missing a lot of what makes him great.

Kucherov was dynamite last year without Stamkos, but I will ask again:

How much more must Kucherov outscore Matthews to make up for all the other things you feel Matthews brings? I guess a 25 point difference in production is not enough (the difference in their career PPGs) but surely there must be a number.

 

[sparxx87]

Gord Miller on TSN radio in response to Petrillo mentioning how certain people exclude Matthews from the Crosby/McDavid tier -
“I speak to people around the league all the time, haven’t heard anyone say that? It’s consensus that 87, 97, and 34 are the 3 best players in the game, in no particular order.”

He’s probably lying too, though.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

And Kucherov has cooled off from his 140 point pace too. His cold streak looks better than Matthews'

Great. He can win the "hottest cold streak" award

 

[djpatm]

Gord Miller on TSN radio in response to Petrillo mentioning how certain people exclude Matthews from the Crosby/McDavid tier -
“I speak to people around the league all the time, haven’t heard anyone say that? It’s consensus that 87, 97, and 34 are the 3 best players in the game, in no particular order.”

He’s probably lying too, though.

He's probably playing up the best player from his biggest market. Weird.

Let the guy break 70 points before you start putting him with f***ing Crosby.

 

[bathdog]

That is the classic trend on this website.

Guilty as charged.

Stamkos and Kucherov are dynamite together, no question... but if I’m measuring everything an individual brings to the table and everything they can do for you as a hockey player, I take Auston Matthews over Nikita Kucherov.

And Backstrom made Ovechkin?
And Datsyuk made Zetterberg?

Linemates really tend to get blown out of proportion and seemingly mostly used when it suits one's argument.

Gord Miller on TSN radio in response to Petrillo mentioning how certain people exclude Matthews from the Crosby/McDavid tier -
“I speak to people around the league all the time, haven’t heard anyone say that? It’s consensus that 87, 97, and 34 are the 3 best players in the game, in no particular order.”

I'm sure quotes supporting the other side of the argument can be dug up too, two quotes are hardly convincing proof.

Great. He can win the "hottest cold streak" award

Having high lows is really important.

You look at some of the best players at each position post-lockout (Crosby, Lidstrom/Karlsson, Lundqvist/Luongo etc) you won't find many stretches of low lows.

 

[sparxx87]

He's probably playing up the best player from his biggest market. Weird.

Let the guy break 70 points before you start putting him with ****ing Crosby.

So you’re questioning his integrity?

 

[djpatm]

I'm making a point that something some idiot on the radio who never played hockey and who has ratings to maintain isn't proof of anything