Speculation: Matt Duchene Thread Part... Just get a trade done already

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IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Oct 13, 2011
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Look, what a shock, a bunch of spin.

Really? That's the next sentence? No ****. Guess what? That sentence literally has nothing to do with how likely something is to work. Good for you for thinking "there will be a time to settle". But that changes nothing about what I said in response to you straight up saying that first sentence. Instead of arguing about the likelyhood or the consequences of waiting you need to pull this childish crap about what was said.

Fair equals good enough. There is no good enough if we have to move him. Once we actually have to move him the offers will be worse than now. The only hope we have of getting a better offer down the road is if Duchene signs an extension. He will sign that before we have to move him. So if it comes to the point that we have to move him then things went bad and we ain't getting anything close to now.

Of course we don't have to trade him right now. Nobody is saying we do. The point is if we don't trade him right now the offers could be very bad. Just more spin though. Can't argue the point so you make it seem like I said he had to be traded instead.

The biggest possible risks arn't really likely? You are so full of ****. You just straight up said "it doesn't matter if it's unlikely to work". If waiting is unlikely to work then that's because the risks are likely. You are just saying whatever pops in your head to defend Sakic, even if it contradicts your own previous comments meant to defend the idiot we call GM of the Avs.

Wow, can't believe this needs to be explained. The facts are the comments and actions themselves, not the meanings. Proof doesn't make something a fact. That's just plain stupid. There you go again, instead of arguing against the point made you have to act like something else was said.

Yes I have conjecture. Conjecture based on those facts. I never said it was proof. In fact many many times I've told you it's not proof. But that's your pathetic argument tactic. Just spin a bunch of bull**** about how I think my opinions are facts and proof.

It is "obvious" without proof.

I've defended my theory many times. But you just keep spinning a bunch if bull ****. How about you explain how all these facts could mean something different that what I assume without sounding like a crazy conspiracy theorist. Wait, you can't, because the answer is obvious. So instead you just want to play these stupid spin games. This one acting as if I've never explained my opinion.m

Yes the willingness to consider other ideas is being open minded. You are not considering other ideas. You are ignoring ideas in favor of what you want to believe and creating stupid conspiracy theories that's just bat**** crazy in order to explain what you want to be the truth.

I'm willing to accept explanations that are logical. I use these explinations to form a view. You should try that instead of coming up with crazy theories to fit what you just simply what to believe. The explinations should form your view. Your view should not form the explinations.

I have have a tendancy to attack those are are condescending, especially when their view is so damn stupid. Don't confuse that with disagreeing. All offseason you have attacked anybody and everybody who says Duchene wants out acting as if they are stupid for forming a conclusion because we don't have proof. Over and over and over, all day everyday, here you were attacking anyone who said anything remotely negative.

I fully comprhend what you said. You are the one who doesn't get it. You keep saying Duchene being able to talk extension would maybe get a GM to sign him. And my point is that your just spewing a bunch of stupid **** with that idea. I comprehend what you are saying. What you are suggesting is just plain dumb. Nobody is going to sign him because he can talk extension. They will change their mind about signing him when those talks turn to action and he actually signs an extension. Talking about it changes nothing. But hey, you don't want to argue that huh, just more spin about me not understanding instead.

Like I said. Just a bunch of spin BS. You can't actually argue against any points or views though, so I guess this is all you got.

In order for me to spin things, I'd probably need to have the narrative you keep accusing me of pushing. I have repeatedly said that I have no idea what is actually going to happen, and usually just play devil's advocate. There are literally hundreds of potential outcomes, and I think they are all worth discussing. If you feel that I'm dismissing your theory, that's never been my intention. I just think that that line of thinking, the most common opinion among HF posters, has been beaten to death, and there's nothing left to talk about that hasn't been discussed 15 times already. And, my previous attempts to raise questions about the "facts" behind that theory have been met with anger, insults and name calling. I don't remember seeing any defense from you that was anything more than repeating the same talking points, in among the insults/names/anger.

But, if you really want to discuss the facts, let me ask you a couple of questions.

Do you think that Brisson's heated conversation with Sakic before going to talk to Poille on the draft floor might possibly have been about Bernier, a Brisson client who signed with the Avs on July 1, and possibly drew some interest from Nashville as well, if they wanted a more proven backup? Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just asking if you can dismiss it for a valid reason. It's something that raises doubts for me about that particular incident.

Do you think that Duchene's comments about feeling separate from the team, and not identifying with any team until training camp, could be an indication that he had mentally and emotionally prepared to be traded (like a professional should), and not necessarily an indication that he wants to be traded? Do you think it's at all possible that the reporter who asked him the question he answered in that manner, might have asked some leading questions which resulted in Duchene using the word "divorced" in his answer? Again, this is something that raises doubts for me. We have an answer taken out of context, I'd like the context to help discern the true meaning.

Do you think there might be a valid reason why Duchene missed the captain's skate and the golf tournament? I can think of a few possible reasons why a newlywed might miss a few optional work events before a long hockey season. Do you have some evidence to show that he skipped the events because he wants to be traded, and not some personal reason?

Do you think there is any good reason why Landeskog or EJ or whoever should share information about Duchene with the media? I can't come up with any reason they would give the media information about Duchene, or really anything meaningful, so I have doubts that their non-answers are anything other than the hockey player equivalent of "no comment".

Do you think that it is imperative for the GM of an NHL team to refute every piece of speculation that floats across the hockey universe? I think that the media is going to talk, regardless of what Sakic says, and it's actually in the Avs best interests to keep their plans to themselves. As people like to point out, if everyone knows what you're going to do, it hurts your leverage. So, why even bother telling the media anything, other than "we're trying to improve the team" (again "no comment")? It really seems like a difficult situation to me, but you seem convinced that Sakic could/should have stopped the rumors, so I'm hoping you can explain how, and to what benefit.

As a follow up, do you think that it's possible that Sakic and Duchene talked at some point in the last 18 months, and had a conversation about the future of the team, and where Duchene fits in, assuming the Avs don't find a deal they can't refuse? Again, I'm not saying that happened, but they do spend a lot of time in the same buildings, so I can't fully dismiss the possibility. Would them having a private conversation negate the issue of Sakic not publicly refuting the trade rumors?

These are just a few of the things that make me doubt the "obvious" explanation of a complicated situation, on top of my general distrust of the "obvious" answer. If obvious is usually correct, Kellogg's Corn Flakes would have a completely different origin story (seriously, it's so far from the obvious answer that you'd think I was lying if I told you).

Now, to address a few of your comments. First, the comment that you seem stuck on wasn't meant in the way you're taking it. What I meant was, the Avs should be exploring every option that they can, regardless of how unlikely it is, and not settling for a consolation prize right now. I'm well aware that there are risks to this. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? I'm pretty sure that it won't get to the point where he's allowed to walk as a UFA, which is the worst case scenario. And, unless he has a career ending injury (also unlikely, I think), he should still return a decent package of futures at the 2019 TDL, if he's not traded before then, so there's a safety net. Yes, his value will likely drop, but the Avs will also have gotten some value from having him on the team for the interim, even if it's just to give Jost a little more time to develop his game.

And, you're right, the events themselves, the observable and provable things that have happened and are on video or in print, are facts. The meaning behind them is what I still want to know. Not think, or speculate, or believe, actually know. Until then, I'll continue to believe that I don't have enough information to call any explanation the truth, and will continue to look for more evidence to prove one over the others. That's really the only real opinion that I've voiced here. Everything else is just trying to get to the truth.
 

harrisb

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
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If the Canadiens lose another 2 in a row they will up their offer.

Quantity vs quality type thing? The young pieces they have to attract duchene are on their roster and would just gut them further. I really don't see MTL with the pieces to land Duchene if the asking price is what is rumoured.
 

JoemAvs

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Jul 2, 2011
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Quantity vs quality type thing? The young pieces they have to attract duchene are on their roster and would just gut them further. I really don't see MTL with the pieces to land Duchene if the asking price is what is rumoured.

It would probably cost them Galchenyuk, Mete and their 1st round pick atleast...

Don't think Bergevin is desperate enough to do that yet.
And not even sure that Sakic would pull the trigger either unless Galchenyuk gets his head out of his behind in the near future.

Otherwise, given how Galchenyuk is used in MTL, the price will probably only increase if he continues to struggle as badly...


While I think Bergevin might be the most interested GM in the league in the near future when it comes to Duchene (because I really don't think the Drouin at center thing will work out), I am not surprised to read that the Habs according to Dreger are not in at all for Duchene...

Just not a great fit there when it comes to having the piecess Sakic would desire.
If they miss the playoffs and pick in the 8-12 range in the 1st round, I could see something happening next offseason.

Otherwise Bergevin will probably have to make a deal that he will regret soon to land Duchene...


I think if Duchene keeps up his stellar play, he will be with the Avs for the rest of 2017 atleast....
I think around New Year, the Avs and the other teams will reevaluate their situation.
Hopefully a solution can be found then...
 

Brock Radunske

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Aug 8, 2012
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It would probably cost them Galchenyuk, Mete and their 1st round pick atleast...

Don't think Bergevin is desperate enough to do that yet.
And not even sure that Sakic would pull the trigger either unless Galchenyuk gets his head out of his behind in the near future.

Otherwise, given how Galchenyuk is used in MTL, the price will probably only increase if he continues to struggle as badly...


While I think Bergevin might be the most interested GM in the league in the near future when it comes to Duchene (because I really don't think the Drouin at center thing will work out), I am not surprised to read that the Habs according to Dreger are not in at all for Duchene...

Just not a great fit there when it comes to having the piecess Sakic would desire.
If they miss the playoffs and pick in the 8-12 range in the 1st round, I could see something happening next offseason.

Otherwise Bergevin will probably have to make a deal that he will regret soon to land Duchene...


I think if Duchene keeps up his stellar play, he will be with the Avs for the rest of 2017 atleast....
I think around New Year, the Avs and the other teams will reevaluate their situation.
Hopefully a solution can be found then...

Haha, no it wouldn't.
 
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JoemAvs

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Jul 2, 2011
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Haha, no it wouldn't.

Pretty sure it would.

I don't see Sakic backing off of demanding that young LHD he is searching for any time soon. Especially when Duchene is playing as well as he has over the first 3 games...
Only guy that somewhat fits the description right now is Mete but he is very unproven still.

Galchenyuk looks horrible and does not have a position right now. Everyone in MTL seems to be adamant that he is not a center but the only time he has produced in this league was when he was played at center together with high level talent...

So yeah. Not exactly a very enticing centerpiece in return for the Avs when it comes to dealing Duchene...
Not sure he could carry Yakupov and Kerfoot the way Duchene has helped these guys during preseason and for the first 3 games.
If that fails, the Avs could face the same problems MTL does right now in not knowing where to play him...

One of your own media guys ( I think. Did not know him. Idon't really recall who that was. Campbell something?) just recently stated that he had heard that the asking price is Galchenyuk + 1st + top prospect.

I think that top prospects name is Mete given that I don't think Sakic will make a deal without a quality LHD coming back...


Dreger says MTL are not in for Duchene.
The reason for that is probably that Bergevin is not willing to make that deal..

Atleast not yet.

But I am pretty sure that this is Sakics asking price and I don't see him budging on that anytime in the near future...
 

Kudo Shinichi

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Apr 20, 2012
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I think the more the habs lose the less likely they will try to get Duchene since it would be a huge risk to trade their 1st round pick
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
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Yeah Matt Duchene makes a ton of sense for Montreal, but that doesn't mean they're capable of making it happen. That ship likely sailed when they traded Sergachev for Drouin.
 

Kudo Shinichi

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Apr 20, 2012
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Pretty sure it would.

I don't see Sakic backing off of demanding that young LHD he is searching for any time soon. Especially when Duchene is playing as well as he has over the first 3 games...
Only guy that somewhat fits the description right now is Mete but he is very unproven still.

Galchenyuk looks horrible and does not have a position right now. Everyone in MTL seems to be adamant that he is not a center but the only time he has produced in this league was when he was played at center together with high level talent...

So yeah. Not exactly a very enticing centerpiece in return for the Avs when it comes to dealing Duchene...
Not sure he could carry Yakupov and Kerfoot the way Duchene has helped these guys during preseason and for the first 3 games.
If that fa

One of your own media guys ( I think. Did not know him. Idon't really recall who that was. Campbell something?) just recently stated that he had heard that the asking price is Galchenyuk + 1st + top prospect.

I think that top prospects name is Mete given that I don't think Sakic will make a deal without a quality LHD coming back...


Dreger says MTL are not in for Duchene.
The reason for that is probably that Bergevin is not willing to make that deal..

Atleast not yet.

But I am pretty sure that this is Sakics asking price and I don't see him budging on that anytime in the near future...

That might be Sakic's asking price, but there is no team that will give him that...
 

JoemAvs

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Jul 2, 2011
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That might be Sakic's asking price, but there is no team that will give him that...

Probably not. No.

But given how terrible trading partners the Habs are for the Avs, that is probably what it would take if Bergevin wanted to make it happen...

I could see Mete removed and Lindgren++ added instead but that would leave Sakic without the coveted D in return which I don't see him accepting.

Aside from that I don't think there is anything else that could make sense for the Avs from Montreal...
 

Habs10025

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Sep 28, 2017
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Montreal are better off finishing at the bottom get a top 10 or 5 pick make some changes in the summer .
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
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Galchenyuk, Juulsen and 2nd


Sakic seems to think he’s going to hit a homerun and compensate for his incompetence thus far, it ain’t happening. I love Duchene but this circus has lowered his stock and the organization has only themselves to blame - this has gone on wayyyy too long and they need to get what they can and move on. For everyone’s sake.
 

Brock Radunske

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Aug 8, 2012
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Pretty sure it would.

I don't see Sakic backing off of demanding that young LHD he is searching for any time soon. Especially when Duchene is playing as well as he has over the first 3 games...
Only guy that somewhat fits the description right now is Mete but he is very unproven still.

Galchenyuk looks horrible and does not have a position right now. Everyone in MTL seems to be adamant that he is not a center but the only time he has produced in this league was when he was played at center together with high level talent...

So yeah. Not exactly a very enticing centerpiece in return for the Avs when it comes to dealing Duchene...
Not sure he could carry Yakupov and Kerfoot the way Duchene has helped these guys during preseason and for the first 3 games.
If that fails, the Avs could face the same problems MTL does right now in not knowing where to play him...

One of your own media guys ( I think. Did not know him. Idon't really recall who that was. Campbell something?) just recently stated that he had heard that the asking price is Galchenyuk + 1st + top prospect.

I think that top prospects name is Mete given that I don't think Sakic will make a deal without a quality LHD coming back...


Dreger says MTL are not in for Duchene.
The reason for that is probably that Bergevin is not willing to make that deal..

Atleast not yet.

But I am pretty sure that this is Sakics asking price and I don't see him budging on that anytime in the near future...

It's fine that Sakic won't back off his price but it doesn't mean that anyone will pay it.
Trades are made because people meet in the middle and make a fair deal, not because one person is being stubborn on their asking price.
 

Avs44

Registered User
May 16, 2011
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Montreal are better of finishing at the bottom get a top 10 or 5 pick make some changes in the summer .

Do you actually think Molson will accept a retool? Genuine question. Seems that after all the money that's invested in the contracts of Price and Weber, Julien signed long term (clearly a win now coach), and the money the Habs make if they even make round 1 of the playoffs...would ownership sign off on missing out on that cash, spending tens of millions annually on the contracts of a few pieces while wasting their better years for nothing, and waiting several years for an uncertain return on their patience?
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
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Galchenyuk, Juulsen and 2nd


Sakic seems to think he’s going to hit a homerun and compensate for his incompetence thus far, it ain’t happening. I love Duchene but this circus has lowered his stock and the organization has only themselves to blame - this has gone on wayyyy too long and they need to get what they can and move on. For everyone’s sake.

Yeah hell no to that deal...

Avs have 0 interest in Juulsen and the little interest in Galchenyuk I had (not a great fit on the Avs either) is diminishing with every Habs game I have been watching recently...

That offer is not nearly good enough.

Atleast have to upgrade that 2nd to a 1st to offset the gamble the Avs would to take on Galchenyuk rebounding as a center for the Avs (because he has not yet shown that he can be a good winger but everyone in the MTL organisation seems to believe he is a failure at center...)
 

EdAVSfan

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Aug 28, 2009
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Galchenyuk, Juulsen and 2nd


Sakic seems to think he’s going to hit a homerun and compensate for his incompetence thus far, it ain’t happening. I love Duchene but this circus has lowered his stock and the organization has only themselves to blame - this has gone on wayyyy too long and they need to get what they can and move on. For everyone’s sake.
A guy like Juulsen really has minimal value to the avs.

Therein lies the problem. With Sakic probably prioritizing the dman in the trade, Juulsen just doesn't move the need much when the avs organizational strength is at RD.

The habs would have a better chance with a goalie prospect than with Juulsen.
 

EdAVSfan

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Do you actually think Molson will accept a retool? Genuine question. Seems that after all the money that's invested in the contracts of Price and Weber, Julien signed long term (clearly a win now coach), and the money the Habs make if they even make round 1 of the playoffs...would ownership sign off on missing out on that cash, spending tens of millions annually on the contracts of a few pieces while wasting their better years for nothing, and waiting several years for an uncertain return on their patience?
With reports that the habs still had tickets available for opening night, against the Blackhawks, youd have to think Molson is a little concerned.

Then again, he's stashing 8+ million in cap space so maybe he's willing to accept less fans.
 

Habs10025

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Do you actually think Molson will accept a retool? Genuine question. Seems that after all the money that's invested in the contracts of Price and Weber, Julien signed long term (clearly a win now coach), and the money the Habs make if they even make round 1 of the playoffs...would ownership sign off on missing out on that cash, spending tens of millions annually on the contracts of a few pieces while wasting their better years for nothing, and waiting several years for an uncertain return on their patience?
The fans are mad and freaking out just imagine how Molson must be feeling he has to be pissed off What are his choices ? He can fire everyone bring in new management or he can leave current management in place and over pay in trades and lose any depth the org might have. The only other option is just let things play out and hope for the best. If the team falls to the bottom of the league start rebuilding . None of his choices are good ones
 

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Forsberg was right when he said Duchene should sit until a trade can be made. Got to think Montreal's going to make him a offer soon.
 

3074326

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Apr 9, 2009
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I like how Avs fans are holding Galchenyuk's performance against him while not doing the same for Duchene's last few seasons. Funny. Out of touch, some of you. It's like Sakic is the blind, leading the blind.
 

Hennessy

Ye Jacobites, by name
Dec 20, 2006
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I like how Avs fans are holding Galchenyuk's performance against him while not doing the same for Duchene's last few seasons. Funny. Out of touch, some of you. It's like Sakic is the blind, leading the blind.

He scored 30 the season before last.
 
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