Marlies / Prospects Thread - Marlies training camp has started

[SprDaVE]

Is he referring to the SHL when he says CHL?

I thought that was the Champions Hockey League, the new tournament they created between European teams?

EDIT:

It is:

http://www.championshockeyleague.net/

Frölunda Gothenburg vs. Briançon Diables Rouges
A win for Fr̦lunda will put them back on top of Group C, after Geneve overtook them last night, and will also eliminate Villach from the race for the next round Рthus guaranteeing Fr̦luunda and Geneve as the top two. Les Diables Rouges are already out of the running for round two, but will be looking to get themselves a first CHL point. It may be a tough ask, however, as their own domestic form has seen them winless on the road so far.

 

[Stephen]

Man, David Broll is one slug/tank of a player. Linebacker frame and glacial pace.

 

[Stephen]

Couple notes.

First, the Red Wings have only had 5 more picks than the Leafs over the past decade. They've had only 6 first round picks compared to the Leafs 9.

Secondly, when you listen to the Red Wings talk about development, thye actively mention that their model is BECAUSE they haven't had top picks to use, which has led to them taking a more patient approach. They have gone as far as to say imply by omission that had they had a top ten pick, that player's development would change dramatically.

Thirdly, the Leafs are developing this sort of strategy and have been doing it for a while now. You're basically complaining about something that doesn't exist anymore. Basically it's been Rielly that has made it fast. Kadri was held for a long time. Basically Schenn was the last player we had that was rushed (it's too early to suggest Rielly might have been, he clearly fits in the Detroit idea of an exception since he's a high pick).

People need to stop complaining about things they clearly ignore.

Agreed.

Detroit takes a "Detroit" approach because many of their kids suck or are very immature. Toronto wouldn't rush an Andreas Johnson to the NHL any more than Detroit would hold back a Drew Doughty for five or six years the way they did with Brendan Smith.

 

[Hotlanta]

4G + 1A for Johnson today in CHL play.

 

[Jim Morrison]

4G + 1A for Johnson today in CHL play.

16 points in 4 games.

 

[Falon]

I smell a Calder Cup next season for the Marlies.

Johnsson-Nylander-Leivo

Herzog-Verhaeghe-Brown

Broll - Gauthier - Biggs



Percy - Nilsson

Finn - Loov

Valiev - Knodel

Bibeau
Sparks

 

[bansheebeat]

I smell a Calder Cup next season for the Marlies.

Johnsson-Nylander-Leivo

Herzog-Verhaeghe-Brown

Broll - Gauthier - Biggs



Percy - Nilsson

Finn - Loov

Valiev - Knodel

Bibeau
Sparks

Exciting looking roster, but you have to think Leivo, Broll and Percy will have decent shots in the big show. Maybe Nylannister, too.

 

[highslot]

"More man strength". As opposed to child strength?

You hear something new every day I guess.

as opposed to the strength of a developing teenager. i guess a teenager still growing is a full grown adult by your definition?

if you think an 18 year old (teenager) has the equal strength of an nhler who is in his mid-20s and finished his growth, then you are sorely mistaken.

 

[highslot]

4G + 1A for Johnson today in CHL play.

shl?

 

[McMatthews]

shl?

No.

The CHL (Champions Hockey League) is a tournament of 50+ club teams from all over Europe. The competition is mediocre but Andreas Johnson is doing something that no other Swedish prospect has done in the CHL. He's destroying the competition.

 

[highslot]

my bad. missed the prior page. i automatically think canadian hockey league but knew he was playing in champion's league.

although imo a true champions league would be nhl, khl, shl and maybe a qualifier for the fourth unless the finnish league is strong enough (don't know anything about it).

probably between swiss, german, czech, etc.

 

[SprDaVE]

as opposed to the strength of a developing teenager. i guess a teenager still growing is a full grown adult by your definition?

if you think an 18 year old (teenager) has the equal strength of an nhler who is in his mid-20s and finished his growth, then you are sorely mistaken.

Strength is strength. There's no such thing as teenager strength or man strength. I just found the term "man strength" pretty funny.

He simply has to get stronger. That will happen as he gets older. That's the case most prospects.

 

[Ace88*]

Strength is strength. There's no such thing as teenager strength or man strength. I just found the term "man strength" pretty funny.

He simply has to get stronger. That will happen as he gets older. That's the case most prospects.

What? Of course there is. It's a different muscle build and physique altogether.

 

[SprDaVE]

What? Of course there is. It's a different muscle build and physique altogether.

Haha. Go to a physician or a doctor and ask them what man strength is. That should be fun . "Hey doctor, how do I get some of that man strength?"

I know what you guys mean though, it's just funny. "He needs more man strength". No, he just needs strength and conditioning as his body matures in adulthood. The term is funny, that's all.

In all seriousness, he's not likely to get that much bigger then Kadri to be honest. He'll have to rely on his agility, speed and hockey IQ.

 

[theIceWookie]

I thought that was the Champions Hockey League, the new tournament they created between European teams?

EDIT:

It is:

http://www.championshockeyleague.net/

Thanks. Didn't realize that they had created this.

my bad. missed the prior page. i automatically think canadian hockey league but knew he was playing in champion's league.

although imo a true champions league would be nhl, khl, shl and maybe a qualifier for the fourth unless the finnish league is strong enough (don't know anything about it).

probably between swiss, german, czech, etc.

Yeah I clicked on the CHL hashtag and all I got was the CHL you thought of haha.

 

[Hero]

I smell a Calder Cup next season for the Marlies.

Johnsson-Nylander-Leivo

Herzog-Verhaeghe-Brown

Broll - Gauthier - Biggs



Percy - Nilsson

Finn - Loov

Valiev - Knodel

Bibeau
Sparks

Gauthier can't play in the AHL this year.

 

[Hero]

Johnson has been great and all, but I wonder how he'll do against the big bodies of the AHL/NHL.

 

[SprDaVE]

Gauthier can't play in the AHL this year.

Neither can Verhaeghe or Valiev. I think he means in 2015-2016, not this upcoming season.

 

[showtime8]

Couple notes.

First, the Red Wings have only had 5 more picks than the Leafs over the past decade. They've had only 6 first round picks compared to the Leafs 9.

Secondly, when you listen to the Red Wings talk about development, thye actively mention that their model is BECAUSE they haven't had top picks to use, which has led to them taking a more patient approach. They have gone as far as to say imply by omission that had they had a top ten pick, that player's development would change dramatically.

Thirdly, the Leafs are developing this sort of strategy and have been doing it for a while now. You're basically complaining about something that doesn't exist anymore. Basically it's been Rielly that has made it fast. Kadri was held for a long time. Basically Schenn was the last player we had that was rushed (it's too early to suggest Rielly might have been, he clearly fits in the Detroit idea of an exception since he's a high pick).

People need to stop complaining about things they clearly ignore.

I think that people complain because the Leafs simply don't know how to develop in general.

Who was the last player that they truly developed?

I don't count Kadri because he was up and down and that isn't really a development in my eyes.

You can list players in the Detroit system that they are currently using and that list is very impressive.

Morgan Rielly wasn't developed. He was picked in the 1st round and then he played.

Bozak - free agent, played right away
Clarkson - free agent
Holland - drafted by Anaheim, spent half a season with the Marlies and Leafs
Kadri - like I said, I wouldn't count it
Kessel - traded for
Lupul - traded for
JVR - traded for
Phaneuf - traded for
Gardiner - traded for
Franson - traded for
Bernier - traded for
Everyone else - free agent

Reimer - Developed

Really the only player that has actually developed through the Leafs system is James Reimer. That's pathetic.

Here's Detroits list:
Abdelkader - 2 1/2 years with Grand Rapids
Andersson - 2 years with GR
Nyqvist - 2 1/2 years with GR
Ericsson - 2 years with GR
Kronwall - 2 years
Brendan Smith - 2 years
Riley Sheahan - 2 years
.... the list goes on

Its crazy to think about what a good system can do for a team. The same team that hasn't missed the playoffs in over 20 years.

So while they have this method of having to wait for players, it still works remarkably well. They've also chosen to trade out of the 1st round in multiple years.

 

[Quares27]

He was just released from his tryout. In before Marlies sign him.

I don't think there's any room for him anyway. There are a lot of capable players on the Marlies this season

 

[TheCLAM]

I think that people complain because the Leafs simply don't know how to develop in general.

Who was the last player that they truly developed?

I don't count Kadri because he was up and down and that isn't really a development in my eyes.

You can list players in the Detroit system that they are currently using and that list is very impressive.

Morgan Rielly wasn't developed. He was picked in the 1st round and then he played.

Bozak - free agent, played right away
Clarkson - free agent
Holland - drafted by Anaheim, spent half a season with the Marlies and Leafs
Kadri - like I said, I wouldn't count it
Kessel - traded for
Lupul - traded for
JVR - traded for
Phaneuf - traded for
Gardiner - traded for
Franson - traded for
Bernier - traded for
Everyone else - free agent

Reimer - Developed

Really the only player that has actually developed through the Leafs system is James Reimer. That's pathetic.

Here's Detroits list:
Abdelkader - 2 1/2 years with Grand Rapids
Andersson - 2 years with GR
Nyqvist - 2 1/2 years with GR
Ericsson - 2 years with GR
Kronwall - 2 years
Brendan Smith - 2 years
Riley Sheahan - 2 years
.... the list goes on

Its crazy to think about what a good system can do for a team. The same team that hasn't missed the playoffs in over 20 years.

So while they have this method of having to wait for players, it still works remarkably well. They've also chosen to trade out of the 1st round in multiple years.

You can't discount Kadri being developed by Toronto. He was an up/down player that learned how to be a complete two-way player in the AHL, with a scoop of ice cream or two in the NHL. He's coming off of a 44p/50p season, it's ignorant to say that he's anything less than that.

How do you even explain Jake Gardiner? He was drafted out of the NCAA by Anaheim, and he was traded to the Leafs as a prospect. Gardiner didn't play for Anahiem's affiliate team Norfolk, he played for the Marlies.. We developed both Gardiner/Kadrim

We started this new development system when Brian Burke was hired.. It takes 4-7 years to see progression within the program. If you draft an 18 year old in 2010, he's only a 22 year old player come 2014. Everyone on your Detroit list is 25+, you can't by the same logic discount a current prospect core based on that. We have traded to for former first round picks and quality players.

By your logic we'll see the fruits of out draft in 1-3 years. Thanks for playing.

 

[Leafidelity]

John-Eric ‏@JE_Iannicello 2h
Blake Kessel is at Marlies camp.

Would be kind of neat bringing him in

 

[showtime8]

You can't discount Kadri being developed by Toronto. He was an up/down player that learned how to be a complete two-way player in the AHL, with a scoop of ice cream or two in the NHL. He's coming off of a 44p/50p season, it's ignorant to say that he's anything less than that.

How do you even explain Jake Gardiner? He was drafted out of the NCAA by Anaheim, and he was traded to the Leafs as a prospect. Gardiner didn't play for Anahiem's affiliate team Norfolk, he played for the Marlies.. We developed both Gardiner/Kadrim

We started this new development system when Brian Burke was hired.. It takes 4-7 years to see progression within the program. If you draft an 18 year old in 2010, he's only a 22 year old player come 2014. Everyone on your Detroit list is 25+, you can't by the same logic discount a current prospect core based on that. We have traded to for former first round picks and quality players.

By your logic we'll see the fruits of out draft in 1-3 years. Thanks for playing.

You have given me 2 examples over the past how many years? Please feel free to give me more of a sample.

Jake Gardiner really only played a total of 10 games in a development form. The other games was during a lock-out season that he was still able to play down there. Not good enough of an example in my opinion.

So we can ignore every year prior to Brian Burke?

 

[The Podium]

You have given me 2 examples over the past how many years? Please feel free to give me more of a sample.

Jake Gardiner really only played a total of 10 games in a development form. The other games was during a lock-out season that he was still able to play down there. Not good enough of an example in my opinion.

So we can ignore every year prior to Brian Burke?

Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Scrivens, Stalberg, Bozak, Frattin, Tlusty, Stralman, Mitchell, Stajan, White, Coliacovo, there more but you get the point. Just because hey aren't playing for the Leafs doesn't mean they weren't developed

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Scrivens, Stalberg, Bozak, Frattin, Tlusty, Stralman, Mitchell, Stajan, White, Coliacovo, there more but you get the point. Just because hey aren't playing for the Leafs doesn't mean they weren't developed

I don't see how Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri, and prospects acquired early in their development like Gardiner don't count as our development. Gardiner never played an official game for Anaheim or any of their affiliates. I think he counts as our development more than them.