Marlies / Prospects Thread - Marlies training camp has started

[showtime8]

Kulemin, Gunnarsson, Scrivens, Stalberg, Bozak, Frattin, Tlusty, Stralman, Mitchell, Stajan, White, Coliacovo, there more but you get the point. Just because hey aren't playing for the Leafs doesn't mean they weren't developed

Kulemin made the team out of training camp the year after he was drafted. Did not spend any time in the Marlies system.

Carl Gunnarsson was similar to Kulemin. He made the team the following year after playing in Europe.

Scrivens is a good example.

Stalberg made the team after he graduated from his college program. He didn't spend any time with the Marlies before the Leafs.

Bozak was a free agent from college and played with the Leafs right away.

Frattin is 50/50. He made the Leafs out of training camp his first year and then struggled so he was sent down. Stralman is also in the same situation.

In Stajan's first try, he made the team out of training camp. He then spent the following year with the Marlies.

Ian White is a good example.

Carlo Colaiacovo is a good example even though he couldn't stay healthy.

My point was simply that even though teams can afford to sign players as free agents, they should still rely on cycling players through their organization.

If the best that a franchise can come up with in the last 20 years is Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo (both of whom don't play in the NHL) and Ben Scrivens, then that is a telling sign of how terrible your organization is/was at development.

Like would you credit the Penguins for developing Sidney Crosby? No, he was just that good already. They put him in as the first line centre and don't look back.

With the Red Wings, the players that I mentioned spent 2 full years with the minor league affiliate in Grand Rapids and figured out how to play their system. Then, when they get called up, they know what is expected of them. It's that simple.

 

[highslot]

i agree with showtime in that detroit has consistently developed players to understand a system and not just develop individual skill. their ability to make the playoffs proves it.

i'd say it also probably worked with jersey as well.

 

[TheCLAM]

Kulemin made the team out of training camp the year after he was drafted. Did not spend any time in the Marlies system.

Carl Gunnarsson was similar to Kulemin. He made the team the following year after playing in Europe.

Scrivens is a good example.

Stalberg made the team after he graduated from his college program. He didn't spend any time with the Marlies before the Leafs.

Bozak was a free agent from college and played with the Leafs right away.

Frattin is 50/50. He made the Leafs out of training camp his first year and then struggled so he was sent down. Stralman is also in the same situation.

In Stajan's first try, he made the team out of training camp. He then spent the following year with the Marlies.

Ian White is a good example.

Carlo Colaiacovo is a good example even though he couldn't stay healthy.

My point was simply that even though teams can afford to sign players as free agents, they should still rely on cycling players through their organization.

If the best that a franchise can come up with in the last 20 years is Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo (both of whom don't play in the NHL) and Ben Scrivens, then that is a telling sign of how terrible your organization is/was at development.

Like would you credit the Penguins for developing Sidney Crosby? No, he was just that good already. They put him in as the first line centre and don't look back.

With the Red Wings, the players that I mentioned spent 2 full years with the minor league affiliate in Grand Rapids and figured out how to play their system. Then, when they get called up, they know what is expected of them. It's that simple.

Development is the process of starting to experience. Take that tidbit of knowledge and re-create your school of thought, I think you're unclear about the end point you're trying to achieve.

 

[The Podium]

Kulemin made the team out of training camp the year after he was drafted. Did not spend any time in the Marlies system.

Carl Gunnarsson was similar to Kulemin. He made the team the following year after playing in Europe.

Scrivens is a good example.

Stalberg made the team after he graduated from his college program. He didn't spend any time with the Marlies before the Leafs.

Bozak was a free agent from college and played with the Leafs right away.

Frattin is 50/50. He made the Leafs out of training camp his first year and then struggled so he was sent down. Stralman is also in the same situation.

In Stajan's first try, he made the team out of training camp. He then spent the following year with the Marlies.

Ian White is a good example.

Carlo Colaiacovo is a good example even though he couldn't stay healthy.

My point was simply that even though teams can afford to sign players as free agents, they should still rely on cycling players through their organization.

If the best that a franchise can come up with in the last 20 years is Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo (both of whom don't play in the NHL) and Ben Scrivens, then that is a telling sign of how terrible your organization is/was at development.

Like would you credit the Penguins for developing Sidney Crosby? No, he was just that good already. They put him in as the first line centre and don't look back.

With the Red Wings, the players that I mentioned spent 2 full years with the minor league affiliate in Grand Rapids and figured out how to play their system. Then, when they get called up, they know what is expected of them. It's that simple.

First of all development is not only Junior -> AHL -> NHL. Bouncing back and forth IS part of development, playing on the NHL roster IS part of development. All these players were drafted by the leafs, attended multiple training camps, were decided by the team which league was best for their development, spent some time in the AHL and played in the NHL for the Leafs.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Kulemin made the team out of training camp the year after he was drafted. Did not spend any time in the Marlies system.

Carl Gunnarsson was similar to Kulemin. He made the team the following year after playing in Europe.

Scrivens is a good example.

Stalberg made the team after he graduated from his college program. He didn't spend any time with the Marlies before the Leafs.

Bozak was a free agent from college and played with the Leafs right away.

Frattin is 50/50. He made the Leafs out of training camp his first year and then struggled so he was sent down. Stralman is also in the same situation.

In Stajan's first try, he made the team out of training camp. He then spent the following year with the Marlies.

Ian White is a good example.

Carlo Colaiacovo is a good example even though he couldn't stay healthy.

My point was simply that even though teams can afford to sign players as free agents, they should still rely on cycling players through their organization.

If the best that a franchise can come up with in the last 20 years is Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo (both of whom don't play in the NHL) and Ben Scrivens, then that is a telling sign of how terrible your organization is/was at development.

Like would you credit the Penguins for developing Sidney Crosby? No, he was just that good already. They put him in as the first line centre and don't look back.

With the Red Wings, the players that I mentioned spent 2 full years with the minor league affiliate in Grand Rapids and figured out how to play their system. Then, when they get called up, they know what is expected of them. It's that simple.

Kulemin wasn't drafted first time around when he was first eligible, he was older when we picked him in the draft. He also spent time in the RSL.

Gunnarsson was also passed over twice before being drafted by us.

Scrivens spent a lot of time in the NCAA and spent a bunch of time in the AHL due to depth in system.

Stalberg spent a lot of time in the NCAA and made team out of camp.

Bozak did spend a bit of time in the AHL before being called up.

on and on and on etc

Basically, for the most part, I think players need time to go through their Jr years and then a bit of AHL seasoning is good.

Most players I wouldn't have on the team until they had finished Jr or spent a couple year in their home country. I would then give the 1-2 years in the AHL.

It's not a standard recipe though.

You will have superstars.

 

[Pholus]

Kulemin made the team out of training camp the year after he was drafted. Did not spend any time in the Marlies system.

Carl Gunnarsson was similar to Kulemin. He made the team the following year after playing in Europe.

Scrivens is a good example.

Stalberg made the team after he graduated from his college program. He didn't spend any time with the Marlies before the Leafs.

Bozak was a free agent from college and played with the Leafs right away.

Frattin is 50/50. He made the Leafs out of training camp his first year and then struggled so he was sent down. Stralman is also in the same situation.

In Stajan's first try, he made the team out of training camp. He then spent the following year with the Marlies.

Ian White is a good example.

Carlo Colaiacovo is a good example even though he couldn't stay healthy.

My point was simply that even though teams can afford to sign players as free agents, they should still rely on cycling players through their organization.

If the best that a franchise can come up with in the last 20 years is Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo (both of whom don't play in the NHL) and Ben Scrivens, then that is a telling sign of how terrible your organization is/was at development.

Like would you credit the Penguins for developing Sidney Crosby? No, he was just that good already. They put him in as the first line centre and don't look back.

With the Red Wings, the players that I mentioned spent 2 full years with the minor league affiliate in Grand Rapids and figured out how to play their system. Then, when they get called up, they know what is expected of them. It's that simple.

Kulemin and Gunnarsson both spent 2 years in Europe after being drafted before coming over, and both played in games for the Marlies.

Stalberg played in a couple playoff games for the Marlies after leaving Vermont.

From what I understand, you're trying to say that unless guys played for the Marlies for a year or two before playing for the Leafs, they weren't developed by us, which is 100% not true.

 

[7even]

Why are we so obsessed with the Red Wings?

 

[SprDaVE]

Why are we so obsessed with the Red Wings?

I ask myself that all the time when it's brought up.

 

[Ace88*]

I ask myself that all the time when it's brought up.

Seriously, i dont care about Detroit. The amount of misinformation presented by posters on these boards with regards to that organization is hilarious. Greener Grass syndrome.

 

[Morguee]

https://twitter.com/renlavoietva

Waivers: SPENCER ABBOTT
TOR
KEVIN MARSHALL
TOR
TREVOR SMITH
TOR

 

[member 147413]

https://twitter.com/renlavoietva

Waivers: SPENCER ABBOTT
TOR
KEVIN MARSHALL
TOR
TREVOR SMITH
TOR

Someone claim Marshall please, just a bad hockey player. Even with the Marlies, we have perfectly competent and more than capable young Dman to take his spot. I like Smith for callups and I was rooting for Abbott, but I would be indifferent if he was claimed.

 

[HarrisonFord]

I hope we manage to claim Markstrom on waivers

 

[Cor]

I hope we manage to claim Markstrom on waivers

Wouldn't be terrible if we are trading Reimer, but other than that, no reason too.

 

[SprDaVE]

I hope we manage to claim Markstrom on waivers

Pretty pointless.

 

[showtime8]

Why are we so obsessed with the Red Wings?

The team hasn't missed the playoffs in over 20 years.

They are a step above every other professional team out there and that includes MLB, NBA & NFL.

So if you're asking why are we obsessed, it is because their model actually works.

 

[showtime8]

Kulemin wasn't drafted first time around when he was first eligible, he was older when we picked him in the draft. He also spent time in the RSL.

Gunnarsson was also passed over twice before being drafted by us.

Scrivens spent a lot of time in the NCAA and spent a bunch of time in the AHL due to depth in system.

Stalberg spent a lot of time in the NCAA and made team out of camp.

Bozak did spend a bit of time in the AHL before being called up.

on and on and on etc

Basically, for the most part, I think players need time to go through their Jr years and then a bit of AHL seasoning is good.

Most players I wouldn't have on the team until they had finished Jr or spent a couple year in their home country. I would then give the 1-2 years in the AHL.

It's not a standard recipe though.

You will have superstars.

It doesn't matter if you spend a lot of time in the NCAA, KHL, SEL, or CHL.

Each team has their own system. European hockey is much different than the NHL. And the CHL is different than the NHL.

What I'm trying to state here is that you need to develop these players in your own system. I understand that you will have your free agents and your superstars that you don't need to necessarily develop, but for the other % of players on your roster, you absolutely need to do that.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Wouldn't be terrible if we are trading Reimer, but other than that, no reason too.

Pretty pointless.

My thoughts were that he'd be an upgrade on Gibson with better upside

 

[showtime8]

Development is the process of starting to experience. Take that tidbit of knowledge and re-create your school of thought, I think you're unclear about the end point you're trying to achieve.

I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here.

My end point is pretty simple. You need to develop your young players instead of constantly overpaying for scrubs in free agency. More often than not, free agents don't work out in this market. Why are we not teaching players at the AHL level how to play "Leafs" hockey and then promoting them when the time is right?

There was a clip from earlier in this training camp where Steve Spott had mentioned that too often from last year, there was a miscommunication between the way the 2 teams styles and how they should be playing.

 

[Radiohead]

The team hasn't missed the playoffs in over 20 years.

They are a step above every other professional team out there and that includes MLB, NBA & NFL.

So if you're asking why are we obsessed, it is because their model actually works.

San Antonio Spurs.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The team hasn't missed the playoffs in over 20 years.

They are a step above every other professional team out there and that includes MLB, NBA & NFL.

So if you're asking why are we obsessed, it is because their model actually works.

I think I would trade our last 20 years for their's too.

 

[showtime8]

San Antonio Spurs.

They're at 17 which is amazing.

The Red Wings are at 23.

 

[snizzbone*]

My thoughts were that he'd be an upgrade on Gibson with better upside

We would have to place him on waivers again if we wanted him in the AHL.

 

[Cor]

The Red Wings are about to embark down a dark road. Their stars are getting older and getting hurt often. Their drafting as of late hasn't been great, and Gustav Nyqvist and Tomas Tatar aren't leading them to any championships.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The Red Wings are about to embark down a dark road. Their stars are getting older and getting hurt often. Their drafting as of late hasn't been great, and Gustav Nyqvist and Tomas Tatar aren't leading them to any championships.

Well, it's a good thing that they have the light of 4 Cups, finals appearances, and a playoff streak that spans almost the entire lifetime of a good chunk of their fans to take with them.

Claims about their future doesn't change the point. And you're downplaying their young talent. They could easily keep the streak alive with a few prudent signings, to compliment guys like Jurco, Tatar, Nyquist, Smith, Sproul, Mantha, etc.

 

[ULF_55]

Seriously, i dont care about Detroit. The amount of misinformation presented by posters on these boards with regards to that organization is hilarious. Greener Grass syndrome.

Probably has something to do with winning Cups post expansion.

Last year they made the playoffs on the partially on the backs of their graduating prospects.