FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.9

[Oskar The Groucho]

Points aren't the basis of the comparisons, it's their role. Gaborik/Nash were perennial scorers. You have to realize that's Kessel value on the low-end, because a market is dictated by historical prices and competitive bidders.

Marian Gaborik had a 76 point season prior to his trade to Columbus

Nash has also been one of the top scoring threats in the league for years now.

The season he was traded he had 9G 10A in 35G

 

[TheCLAM]

How is his value on the low end? He is on pace for 70-75 points this season and is a goal scorer with a better shot then Nash and Gaborik could ever imagine to have.

This is my exit

 

[WilliamNylander]

Points aren't the basis of the comparisons, it's their role. Gaborik/Nash were perennial scorers. You have to realize that's Kessel value on the low-end, because a market is dictated by historical prices and competitive bidders.

Do you even know how a market works? Do you know how to look at players' point totals? You can use a few different sites to compare them (nhl.com, hockeydb.com, etc.). I suggest you pay one of those sites a visit and compare Kessel to Gabrorik and Nash. It'll also show you how old they were when traded. It'll show you how many games Kessel has played, he's one of the most durable players in the entire league.

You keep comparing Kessel to Nash but Nash requested out of Columbus. He also said he wanted to go to the rangers (ie: no bidding war). There's a much larger market for Phil Kessel.

Kessel will be far and away the best player on the market this summer. If the leafs are going to consider moving him, you can bet there will be a bidding war. MSM have already come out and said Kessel has a tonne of interest league wide.

 

[BlueForever]

disgusting. Stop with your trade proposals while your ahead.

Guys like some others have posted, where the change of the core needs to come from is not Kessel or JVR. Phaneuf needs to go. For what ever we can get.

Keep: Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Holland, Komarov, Panik, Santorelli (Resign), Winnik (Resign), Clarkson (Untradeable) Reilly, Polak , Percy, Bernier

Trade: Bozak, Lupul, Booth, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson, Robidas, Reimer

This changes your core, Top line center, second line winger, Top D man, Second Best D man, and arguablly 3rd best D man, veternan leadership that failed, and a goalie that is causing contrevorsy and a divide in the locker room.

Lineup should consist of the following with gaps to fill:

Kessel - ??? - JVR
??? - Kadri - Clarkson
Komarov - Holland - Santorelli
Winnik - ??? - Panik

??? - Reilly
Polak - ???
Percy - ???

Bernier
???

Trade Phaneuf, Bozak to COL for O'Reilly and a 2nd Rounder

Trade Lupul and Gardiner to EDM for Eberle and a 2nd Rounder

Trade Booth for a 4th Round Pick

Trade Robidas for a 4th Round Pick

Trade Franson and Reimer and 2nd Round Pick to WPG for Evander Kane

Rest of you D and backup goalie can be made up of FA and kids in the minors (Granberg, Holzer, etc...)

Updated lineup with trades:

Kessel - O'Reilly - JVR
Eberle - Kadri - Kane
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson
Winnik - Santorelli - Panik

??? - Reilly
Polak - ???
Percy - ???

Bernier
???

Fire Away........

 

[RayzorIsDull]

What are the chances a team like St Louis would be interested in Kessel if the Blues flop in the playoffs again? They may have to move some players out shortly as it is with Schwartz due to be an RFA in 2 years, Tarasenko's up for RFA after this year. Backes has 1 year left after this year and Oshie has 2.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

This is my exit

Have you seen Kessel shot? You honestly think Gabroik or Nash has a better shot then kessel? Seriously

 

[ULF_55]

A good player and a pick.

If there was no risk it would just be a pick if it was going to be as good as Kessel / van Riemsdyk.

Kessel outscores Toews all the time. Do you think Toews for Kessel is a fair deal for the Hawks?

IMO, it isn't about getting like for like in a deal for Kessel or van Riemsdyk or Phaneuf ... the entire point should be something different that might grow into a leadership position.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Have you seen Kessel shot? You honestly think Gabroik or Nash has a better shot then kessel? Seriously

I don;t understand where he's coming from. He hasn't provided one logical argument for using a Rick Nash trade (where he only had one place he could be traded) or a Gaborik trade (not nearly as durable or consistent as Kessel) as his comparisons.

Then he uses Tyler Seguin as an example ...Just weird logic.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

A good player and a pick.

If there was no risk it would just be a pick if it was going to be as good as Kessel / van Riemsdyk.

Kessel outscores Toews all the time. Do you think Toews for Kessel is a fair deal for the Hawks?

IMO, it isn't about getting like for like in a deal for Kessel or van Riemsdyk or Phaneuf ... the entire point should be something different that might grow into a leadership position.

It should be about changing the indentity of the team and locker room. We need a influx or young talent who want to learn and grow together. This patch work stuff needs to end

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I don;t understand where he's coming from. He hasn't provided one logical argument for using a Rick Nash trade (where he only had one place he could be traded) or a Gaborik trade (not nearly as durable or consistent as Kessel) as his comparisons.

Then he uses Tyler Seguin as an example ...Just weird logic.

Very weird. Nash only requested one team and Gabroik is a injury concern almost every shift and at the time was traded on a bad year. Kessel has been consistent for how many years know? about 15 teams would love to have Kessel as there lethal scoring threat and I bet would pay a premium for it.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

What would it take to get Etem from Anaheim? Still very young, has produced in the AHL but hasn't really found a role in with the Ducks.

 

[pspot]

so you guys want to rebuild but having Rielly, Dumba, Nylander, Wennberg, Crouse (currently ranked 6th), Zacha (currenlty at 8th), Barzal (currenblty at 13)

is disgusting?

not sure what your expectations of blowing it up / starting over are but in my mind the above is exactly what i'd want to to look like

 

[TheCLAM]

Do you even know how a market works? Do you know how to look at players' point totals? You can use a few different sites to compare them (nhl.com, hockeydb.com, etc.). I suggest you pay one of those sites a visit and compare Kessel to Gabrorik and Nash. It'll also show you how old they were when traded. It'll show you how many games Kessel has played, he's one of the most durable players in the entire league.

You keep comparing Kessel to Nash but Nash requested out of Columbus. He also said he wanted to go to the rangers (ie: no bidding war). There's a much larger market for Phil Kessel.

Kessel will be far and away the best player on the market this summer. If the leafs are going to consider moving him, you can bet there will be a bidding war. MSM have already come out and said Kessel has a tonne of interest league wide.

Nash just turned 28, Kessel turns 28 going into next season.. Age wise comparable? Yes

Durability? Nash played 75+ games each year which is no slouch durability wise. Kessel has an edge but you're making Nash sound like Lupul.

I touched on the concept of Kessel having more bidders on the open market. I don't understand why you can't understand the concept of the low-end he's going to get a Rick Nash return

He could get a lot more.. You need the right market place for that to happen in the cap-world. I don't understand the notion of Rick Nash value on the low-end being a negative thing. He's gotten one of the better returns in recent history of the sport of hockey.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

so you guys want to rebuild but having Rielly, Dumba, Nylander, Wennberg, Crouse (currently ranked 6th), Zacha (currenlty at 8th), Barzal (currenblty at 13)

is disgusting?

not sure what your expectations of blowing it up / starting over are but in my mind the above is exactly what i'd want to to look like

It's crazy to think the Leafs could acquire 2 other top 13 picks along with having their own. This is something people would cook up in Eastside Hockey Manager.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Nash just turned 28, Kessel turns 28 going into next season.. Age wise comparable? Yes

Durability? Nash played 75+ games each year which is no slouch durability wise. Kessel has an edge but you're making Nash sound like Lupul.

I touched on the concept of Kessel having more bidders on the open market. I don't understand why you can't understand the concept of the low-end he's going to get a Rick Nash return

He could get a lot more.. You need the right market place for that to happen in the cap-world. I don't understand the notion of Rick Nash value on the low-end being a negative thing. He's gotten one of the better returns in recent history of the sport of hockey.

Kessel will not get a Nash return . His value around the league is more then Nash was, again he could only be traded to ONE team so the return was the best that team could muster. When you have more teams in the mix a bidding war could happen and the return would increase because of it.

 

[TheCLAM]

Very weird. Nash only requested one team and Gabroik is a injury concern almost every shift and at the time was traded on a bad year. Kessel has been consistent for how many years know? about 15 teams would love to have Kessel as there lethal scoring threat and I bet would pay a premium for it.

Reality starts to hit in with this wonderful thing called the salary cap which limits team to not spend over a maximum limit. In reality you'll have a large pool of teams interested, then the cap/asking price will decrease demand like in any market.

Like I said Rick Nash deal is the low-end starting point not the ending.

Have a frosty one

 

[TheCLAM]

Kessel will not get a Nash return . His value around the league is more then Nash was, again he could only be traded to ONE team so the return was the best that team could muster. When you have more teams in the mix a bidding war could happen and the return would increase because of it.

Ideally more teams will increase demand given a competitive market-place. The issue is as fans we are left to speculate the market with uncertainty. I prefer the conservative approach, you're entitled to yours

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Reality starts to hit in with this wonderful thing called the salary cap which limits team to not spend over a maximum limit. In reality you'll have a large pool of teams interested, then the cap/asking price will decrease demand like in any market.

Like I said Rick Nash deal is the low-end starting point not the ending.

Have a frosty one

Agreed, but who says you cant take on a player with term and cap dollars as well? Any trade involving Kessel would need money coming back to us. Teams would also trade players to get a player like Kessel in a hearts beat. Philidelphia did it for Briz Rangers for Nash etc......

 

[ULF_55]

It should be about changing the indentity of the team and locker room. We need a influx or young talent who want to learn and grow together. This patch work stuff needs to end

You don't change the identity of the team by trading your support players, unless you sweeten the deal for the other team.

Gardiner, Kadri, Finn/Percy/Gauthier
for
Pavelski/Couture

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Reality starts to hit in with this wonderful thing called the salary cap which limits team to not spend over a maximum limit. In reality you'll have a large pool of teams interested, then the cap/asking price will decrease demand like in any market.

Like I said Rick Nash deal is the low-end starting point not the ending.

Have a frosty one

It should be the low end starting point I completely agree

 

[Havoq]

For what purpose?

Clarkson is a negative, so likely get back less than the + you have to add to move him.

Robidas 37 year old part time defender.

How does that change the dynamics of the team?

Not to mention a market for 2/3 here is essentially non existent.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Ideally more teams will increase demand given a competitive market-place. The issue is as fans we are left to speculate the market with uncertainty. I prefer the conservative approach, you're entitled to yours

Very true us Leafs fans are the most obsessive and fun bunch though

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

You don't change the identity of the team by trading your support players, unless you sweeten the deal for the other team.

Gardiner, Kadri, Finn/Percy/Gauthier
for
Pavelski/Couture

You trade any player that is over the age of 24 and build a young team who want to learn, bleed and go to war together as a team, not just for themselves and to collect a pay check and go back to there Xbox One

 

[TheCLAM]

Have you seen Kessel shot? You honestly think Gabroik or Nash has a better shot then kessel? Seriously

I'm not saying x > y

There's a handful of players who can shoot the puck i.e. Kessel, Perry, Nash, Ovechkin etc.

For the record Nash has reached multiple more career high seasons than Kessel. While Kessel has ousted him in the point category..

Nash = 0.44 goal/gp
Kessel = 0.38 goal/gp

Let's have a little respect for other teams players here. Kessel shot could very well be better, but he hasn't had a 50 goal season to as opposed to Nash 40 goal one to determine that it is a ridiculous comparison. We are in a good position because Kessel doesn't have NTC so yes value can be potentially higher

 

[namttebih]

None of them are comparable to Kessel when traded

Totally disagree.

Nash was a Captain, played to Team Canada at the 2010 Olympics scored more goals in the 5 years leading up to the trade than Kessel over the last 5 years and was a better all round player.

Seguin was only 20 and had two 30 goal pace seasons under his belt on the third line of a defensive team. He also plays Center. I would have easily traded Kessel for Seguin then and obviously now.