FA/Trade Thread 2014-2015 Season V.9

[HEAVY DUTY]

Franson Reimer for Jones 2nd

you have got to be trolling? that is so not enough for jones.



try kessel for jones & 1st and maybe they'll bite.

 

[Duffman955]

The core has yet to be established.

My best guess would be JVR, Kadri, Reilly, Bernier, Nylander

Need to add defense, and skilled grit.

Biggest decision is if kessel is a part of the core

 

[Trapper]

The core has yet to be established.

My best guess would be JVR, Kadri, Reilly, Bernier, Nylander

Need to add defense, and skilled grit.

Biggest decision is if kessel is a part of the core

For me no.
We have a chance (and should) position ourselves to draft a Barzal.
If O'Reilly could be had for Phaneuf you jump on it.
How would you like our center depth to be Kadri/O'Reilly/Barzal/Gauthier.

You move Kessel for a ? if possible and move into position to draft.
It's wishful thinking but I'd move to a new tomorrow.

 

[dimi78]

I think we all need to accept Stamkos not wanting to come to Toronto.

He plays in a decent enough hockey market in Tampa. He plays for a very strong team, with a great future, of who he would be a captain for as long as he plays with them. He's got a great coach, and a very smart GM.

Toronto has none of what Tampa has, except maybe its a bigger market.

Rather than banking on him to join us in our misery, I would actually like to rebuild, draft and develop our own stud. It's not like we can't, if Tampa can. Most of their impact players were all drafted outside of the 1st round (Tyler Johnson was a UFA signing).

They have two high picks who they've build their team around, and they've spent the UFA money wisely on guys like Filppula and Stralman.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how to build a team.

People still can't see it... The way this market is player development is a huge disadvantage for this organization. They have both hands tied behind there backs do to the fact that the scrutiny of the market eats players alive regardless if the players are young and growing or Hall of famers.

This market needs vets, good vets to take most of the heat off developing youth. The issue is that management keeps going to the way of forcing youth to beat out road block vets for jobs in key roles where coaches ALWAYS END UP PLAYING THE VET. The result is they don't develop youth using them in the key roles like they do well everywhere else gaining experience at the NHL level all the while getting good vets to play with the young guys as appose to playing over them.

If this organization knew how to develop players these past 3 years Kadri would have been the #1 center playing with Kessel and Gardiner would have been paired with Phanuef.

That's how you develop your best players instead what we got is Bozak joined to Kessel's hip and have stupidly had Gunnarsson, Holzer and even Mike Kostka with Phanuef over Gardiner.

We don't develop youth we put them in positions to fail by means expecting lots from them yet never give the opportunity in the key roles to actually go and achieve the expectations. We dick them around & break there confidence in Toronto both from the organization it's self and especially from the media.

It's crazy I tell you. Over 20 years ONLY Kaberle reached star status from the Leaf developmental ways (Had many achieve that status once we traded them) and people wonder what's wrong with the Leafs? It's painfully there for everybody to see. We eat are own as a fan base & media. The organization responds by babying youth afraid to develop them at the NHL level committing to them in key roles based on the merit of talent letting them gain experience.

 

[p.l.f.]

Dion for ROR fer sure

 

[Amadeus]

People still can't see it... The way this market is player development is a huge disadvantage for this organization. They have both hands tied behind there backs do to the fact that the scrutiny of the market eats players alive regardless if the players are young and growing or Hall of famers.

This market needs vets, good vets to take most of the heat off developing youth. The issue is that management keeps going to the way of forcing youth to beat out road block vets for jobs in key roles where coaches ALWAYS END UP PLAYING THE VET. The result is they don't develop youth using them in the key roles like they do well everywhere else gaining experience at the NHL level all the while getting good vets to play with the young guys as appose to playing over them.

If this organization knew how to develop players these past 3 years Kadri would have been the #1 center playing with Kessel and Gardiner would have been paired with Phanuef.

That's how you develop your best players instead what we got is Bozak joined to Kessel's hip and have stupidly had Gunnarsson, Holzer and even Mike Kostka with Phanuef over Gardiner.

We don't develop youth we put them in positions to fail by means expecting lots from them yet never give the opportunity in the key roles to actually go and achieve the expectations. We dick them around & break there confidence in Toronto both from the organization it's self and especially from the media.

It's crazy I tell you. Over 20 years ONLY Kaberle reached star status from the Leaf developmental ways (Had many achieve that status once we traded them) and people wonder what's wrong with the Leafs? It's painfully there for everybody to see. We eat are own as a fan base & media. The organization responds by babying youth afraid to develop them at the NHL level committing to them in key roles based on the merit of talent letting them gain experience.

I would have agreed but I'll throw Montreal back at you.

They've got as much media attention as we do. Their media scrutinizes the team when they aren't playing well just as much as Toronto's does. Their players, young and old, are both magnified just as much as they are in Toronto.

Having said that, Montreal has successfully been able to develop two franchise players in Carey Price and P.K Subban.

Toronto's market isn't whats stopping them. It's the quality of our draft picks. I do agree that our amateur scouting team needs a major overhaul. Even Morrison has received ample time since taking over for Barry Trapp but hasn't had a single player he drafted and developed who has turned out to be a core piece (Kadri, and high picks excluded, because I can go make those picks).

 

[torontoteamfan]

Toronto Trades:
Kessel
Franson

Islanders Trade:
Strome
MDC
Hamonic
1st rounder 2015

Truly think that the islanders are the best and most realistic partners for the leafs for a kessel trade at the deadline or summer

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Toronto Trades:
Kessel
Franson

Islanders Trade:
Strome
MDC
Hamonic
1st rounder 2015

Truly think that the islanders are the best and most realistic partners for the leafs for a kessel trade at the deadline or summer

Already traded to buffalo.

 

[showtime8]

I would have agreed but I'll throw Montreal back at you.

They've got as much media attention as we do. Their media scrutinizes the team when they aren't playing well just as much as Toronto's does. Their players, young and old, are both magnified just as much as they are in Toronto.

Having said that, Montreal has successfully been able to develop two franchise players in Carey Price and P.K Subban.

Toronto's market isn't whats stopping them. It's the quality of our draft picks. I do agree that our amateur scouting team needs a major overhaul. Even Morrison has received ample time since taking over for Barry Trapp but hasn't had a single player he drafted and developed who has turned out to be a core piece (Kadri, and high picks excluded, because I can go make those picks).

Yea, Montreal is a good example. And there is always more pressure on the head coach because if he isn't good, he gets blasted in English and French.

And the Canadiens constantly have cameras following them. They have a series called 24CH, that is exactly like the Winter Classic stuff. Their players are more involved on videos for their website.

I wonder if Toronto cut down on the amount of media covers the team and they did a series like that, if the reputation of the team and some players would change. I really think that it would. Less stress for players and you get to see the human side of them. I know Clarkson's reputation wouldn't change because of his production on the ice, but he does a lot for kids with illnesses and volunteers a lot of his time towards that. If there was a glimpse of that, maybe people would chill out a bit on him? Probably not though.

Anyways, I got a little side-tracked there, but I think you're right Dark Knight. The major difference between the teams is PK Subban and Carey Price. Because talent wise upfront, I think Toronto may have an edge or at least it would be pretty even. Kessel is offensively better than any forward they have. I would say that JVR and Pacioretty are similar players with similar numbers and then from there the others are close to matching up.

The same goes for their back end as well. Markov & Gonchar are at the end of their careers, Beaulieu has been up and down between the AHL, Emelin is steady and Gilbert is okay for a #5-6.

The major difference is their character players and their goaltending. You don't have to apologize for good goaltending and when the Leafs were getting that at the start of the year and are just getting average now.

 

[mulefarm]

People still can't see it... The way this market is player development is a huge disadvantage for this organization. They have both hands tied behind there backs do to the fact that the scrutiny of the market eats players alive regardless if the players are young and growing or Hall of famers.

This market needs vets, good vets to take most of the heat off developing youth. The issue is that management keeps going to the way of forcing youth to beat out road block vets for jobs in key roles where coaches ALWAYS END UP PLAYING THE VET. The result is they don't develop youth using them in the key roles like they do well everywhere else gaining experience at the NHL level all the while getting good vets to play with the young guys as appose to playing over them.

If this organization knew how to develop players these past 3 years Kadri would have been the #1 center playing with Kessel and Gardiner would have been paired with Phanuef.

That's how you develop your best players instead what we got is Bozak joined to Kessel's hip and have stupidly had Gunnarsson, Holzer and even Mike Kostka with Phanuef over Gardiner.

We don't develop youth we put them in positions to fail by means expecting lots from them yet never give the opportunity in the key roles to actually go and achieve the expectations. We dick them around & break there confidence in Toronto both from the organization it's self and especially from the media.

It's crazy I tell you. Over 20 years ONLY Kaberle reached star status from the Leaf developmental ways (Had many achieve that status once we traded them) and people wonder what's wrong with the Leafs? It's painfully there for everybody to see. We eat are own as a fan base & media. The organization responds by babying youth afraid to develop them at the NHL level committing to them in key roles based on the merit of talent letting them gain experience.

You hit the nail on the head! Home run!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dimi78]

I would have agreed but I'll throw Montreal back at you.

They've got as much media attention as we do. Their media scrutinizes the team when they aren't playing well just as much as Toronto's does. Their players, young and old, are both magnified just as much as they are in Toronto.

Having said that, Montreal has successfully been able to develop two franchise players in Carey Price and P.K Subban.

Toronto's market isn't whats stopping them. It's the quality of our draft picks. I do agree that our amateur scouting team needs a major overhaul. Even Morrison has received ample time since taking over for Barry Trapp but hasn't had a single player he drafted and developed who has turned out to be a core piece (Kadri, and high picks excluded, because I can go make those picks).

Throw Montreal at me... Do you remember the struggles Price had or the issues with Subban? What Montreal does is they stay committed to these young guys and USE THEM we don't.

Toronto's market is stopping them because management continues to fall victim to the BS instead of ignoring it and do right by it's youth which it doesn't. We traded Steen why? We traded Tulusty why? We traded Stralman why? We traded Stalberg why? We don't commit to our youth the way we should and it's because we're chickens to develop at the NHL level. None of these guys got a chance to develop in a core role to see what they are before we traded them and that trend still continues. Kadri not only does he play behind Bozak he played behind Mcclement as well. Gardiner went from all rookie team where he was called silver as a vet that played like he had 1000 games under his belt to the point his agent had to start #FREEJAKEGARDINER under Carlyle.

This organization has to stop the BS and place a premium on it's best young guys... This isn't house league where you put this notion that they have to make the team. You project and promote based on talent and make room for them when it's determine they're ready for the NHL.

The late great Burns said it best. "If you want me to play and get the most out of a kid get rid of the vet first that holds that spot for the opportunity to be afforded. When have the Leafs done this?

Answer NEVER.

Why haven't they done this? I'll let you answer that because it's not that they're not good enough. Toronto is a youth graveyard and a place that if I was getting drafted by them I would actually refuse to report like Lindros did with Quebec.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Toronto Trades:
Kessel
Franson

Islanders Trade:
Strome
MDC
Hamonic
1st rounder 2015

Truly think that the islanders are the best and most realistic partners for the leafs for a kessel trade at the deadline or summer

that is such an absurd price to pay for kessel and franson. be realistic man. isles are not going to give up 3 1st rd picks and a good Dman in hamonic for both leafs players. and franson is a UFA. no way they're acquiring him after being badly burned by the vanek trade just last year.

 

[CREW99AW]

Toronto Trades:
Kessel
Franson

Islanders Trade:
Strome
MDC
Hamonic
1st rounder 2015

Truly think that the islanders are the best and most realistic partners for the leafs for a kessel trade at the deadline or summer

1. Isles have Okposo /Strome/Kulimen on rw. They don't have the incentive, payroll ir desire to give up a huge package for $8m Kessel.

Okposo :44 pts making about $4.5m. Better defensively ,more physical.
Kessel : 44 pts making $8m.A better goal scorer.
Isles will take less pts from Okposo , in exchange they get strong D and physical play.

2.Strome is having a very strong 2nd proseaon, will IMO be a 70 pt player. Go Google some Strome recent articles.

3. Hamonic on a team friendly deal is not being flipped for impending UFA Franson.. Even if Franson was signed longterm, the isles don't make that fantasy exchange.

4. Isles are leading their division. Both Lebrun and Arthur Staple report they are not looking to do much at the TDL because they made their moves in the preseason.

Leafs are looking for a blockbuster, the metro divsion leading isles are not.

 

[CREW99AW]

Already traded to buffalo.

Remove the first and the isles still say no thanks, then laugh their a**** off after hanging up. Lebrun and Staple are reporting the nyi are not looking to do much of anything at the TDL. Not surprising with their play and holding a playoff spot.

A little disappointing because I had hoped they'd flip a pick to upgrade the backup goalie spot and send Johnson to Bridgeport.

 

[showtime8]

Throw Montreal at me... Do you remember the struggles Price had or the issues with Subban? What Montreal does is they stay committed to these young guys and USE THEM we don't.

Toronto's market is stopping them because management continues to fall victim to the BS instead of ignoring it and do right by it's youth which it doesn't. We traded Steen why? We traded Tulusty why? We traded Stralman why? We traded Stalberg why? We don't commit to our youth the way we should and it's because we're chickens to develop at the NHL level. None of these guys got a chance to develop in a core role to see what they are before we traded them and that trend still continues. Kadri not only does he play behind Bozak he played behind Mcclement as well. Gardiner went from all rookie team where he was called silver as a vet that played like he had 1000 games under his belt to the point his agent had to start #FREEJAKEGARDINER under Carlyle.

This organization has to stop the BS and place a premium on it's best young guys... This isn't house league where you put this notion that they have to make the team. You project and promote based on talent and make room for them when it's determine they're ready for the NHL.

The late great Burns said it best. "If you want me to play and get the most out of a kid get rid of the vet first that holds that spot for the opportunity to be afforded. When have the Leafs done this?

Answer NEVER.

Why haven't they done this? I'll let you answer that because it's not that they're not good enough. Toronto is a youth graveyard and a place that if I was getting drafted by them I would actually refuse to report like Lindros did with Quebec.

You are exactly right about this. I've been saying this for a while, but it doesn't really matter.

The Leafs have done a terrible job determining a players true value and learning when to cut ties at the right time.

We all have to learn though that there will be instances where players don't pan out. Anton Stralman was a 7th round pick, so you aren't going to necessarily be guaranteed anything from a player like that. But the guys that you should be getting value on are the 1st and 2nd round picks and the Leafs haven't done that.

I don't think that Toronto has to be a graveyard for young talent, but they need to fight for a job and shouldn't be handed it after they're drafted.

Ideally, you have your mid-round picks play a couple years with the Marlies and then get promoted after they learn the professional life and systems that the organization plays. You do the same with the 1st round picks, but more so on a fast track course to the show. You take the 1st rounders based on talent, so as soon as they understand the system that you play, then you bring them up to fight for a spot.

 

[one77]

For me no.
We have a chance (and should) position ourselves to draft a Barzal.
If O'Reilly could be had for Phaneuf you jump on it.
How would you like our center depth to be Kadri/O'Reilly/Barzal/Gauthier.

You move Kessel for a ? if possible and move into position to draft.
It's wishful thinking but I'd move to a new tomorrow.

I was thinking:

Kessel for Jones + Fiala + NAS 1st 2015 (they would give up this much to become legit contenders)
Phaneuf for ROR
Bozak + Franson for Ritchie + ANA 1st 2015
Lupul for 2nd 2015

Trade our 1st + NAS 1st + ANA 1st for a top 2-3 pick. Say we nab Eichel.

JVR - Eichel - Nylander
Brown/Fiala - Kadri - ROR
Komarov - Holland - Santorelli
Winnik - Gauthier - Clarkson
-Brown/Fiala/Leivo/Panik/Broll/Smith

Rielly - Jones
Gardiner - Polak
Percy - Robidas
-Loov/Granberg/Holzer/Finn

Bernier
Reimer

Roll with it.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I was thinking:

Kessel for Jones + Fiala + NAS 1st 2015 (they would give up this much to become legit contenders)
Phaneuf for ROR
Bozak + Franson for Ritchie + ANA 1st 2015
Lupul for 2nd 2015

Trade our 1st + NAS 1st + ANA 1st for a top 2-3 pick. Say we nab Eichel.

JVR - Eichel - Nylander
Brown/Fiala - Kadri - ROR
Komarov - Holland - Santorelli
Winnik - Gauthier - Clarkson
-Brown/Fiala/Leivo/Panik/Broll/Smith

Rielly - Jones
Gardiner - Polak
Percy - Robidas
-Loov/Granberg/Holzer/Finn

Bernier
Reimer

Roll with it.

None of those teams would do those trades

 

[Swayze*]

Toronto Trades:
Kessel
Franson

Islanders Trade:
Strome
MDC
Hamonic
1st rounder 2015

Truly think that the islanders are the best and most realistic partners for the leafs for a kessel trade at the deadline or summer

Wow thats a bad one

 

[namttebih]

Would Lupul at $3.95M for 3 years land us a late 1st and prospect? I think that we could stomach a 20% retention.

 

[thewave]

Keep

(Sign)Franson, Jake, Rielly, JvR, Kadri, Panik, Holland, Kessel, Polak. Bernier, Komarov

Trade buyout or other

Robidas, Lupul, Dion, Santorelli, Winnik, Booth, Bozak, Reimer, Smith, Ashton, Frattin, Clarkson

My Trade list is all we need to get the ball rolling. If they can just do that this team will be in good shape in short order.

 

[Faltorvo]

2nd round pick, and prospect, call it a day, see ya Franson.

franson will get us a late 1rst, watch and see

rhs d ,pp specialist

has size, will get a little rough

teams will want him for 2nd pair and top pp in the POs

mac is just defending his position, we was on tv the other night trying to poo poo a notion of a blow up and snarked "and what, get a late 2nd for franson"?

remember a lot of these media folks with crap on a blow up, they don't want to face the dark times and story lines ahead. that rotten meat on the media bone.

 

[Budsfan]

If we actually trade Kessel.... I would definitely trade with NYI, if they trade some of the young players listed

Five potential trade destinations for Phil Kessel

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/five-potential-trade-destinations-for-phil-kessel/

NEW YORK ISLANDERS

You can’t have the moon unless you ask for it first.

If the Maple Leafs are looking to reload the roster with good prospects and a proven young player, the Islanders could play matchmaker. New York is deep down the middle, thus a guy like Ryan Strome could be available in any deal that may involve a scorer of Kessel’s ilk. With a multi-player deal in mind perhaps Kessel, Jake Gardiner and a draft pick head to Long Island in exchange for a package of blue chippers.

Potential trade chips: Strome, Griffin Reinhart, Michael Dal Colle, Ryan Pulock, Josh Ho-Sang, Brock Nelson

Kessel, Gardiner and a draft pick

Ryan Strome, Griffin Reinhart and Brock Nelson... 2 young centers both with 1st line potential and a blue chip defenseman

 

[thewave]

franson will get us a late 1rst, watch and see

rhs d ,pp specialist

has size, will get a little rough

teams will want him for 2nd pair and top pp in the POs

mac is just defending his position, we was on tv the other night trying to poo poo a notion of a blow up and snarked "and what, get a late 2nd for franson"?

remember a lot of these media folks with crap on a blow up, they don't want to face the dark times and story lines ahead. that rotten meat on the media bone.

I think it will be a mid to late 1st +prospect

 

[Trapper]

If we actually trade Kessel.... I would definitely trade with NYI, if they trade some of the young players listed

Five potential trade destinations for Phil Kessel

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/five-potential-trade-destinations-for-phil-kessel/



Kessel, Gardiner and a draft pick

Ryan Strome, Griffin Reinhart and Brock Nelson... 2 young centers both with 1st line potential and a blue chip defenseman

I think the Isles are pretty high on Nelson and don't see all those players in return.
I would definitely take Strome (drafted 5th overall), and Reinhart (drafted 4th overall) for Kessel.
That's very comparable to the position of the picks we gave up and immediately addresses our prime areas of weakness/rebuild. Center/D.

 

[Faltorvo]

I think the Isles are pretty high on Nelson and don't see all those players in return.
I would definitely take Strome (drafted 5th overall), and Reinhart (drafted 4th overall) for Kessel.
That's very comparable to the position of the picks we gave up and immediately addresses our prime areas of weakness/rebuild. Center/D.

players like kessel,dion,lups are going to be real real tough to suss out what their market value is

those long term deals, concerns about the cap going forward and how other gms/owners view that is impossible to suss out.

pending ufas, well that market won't change much