Player Discussion Alex Galchenyuk: Time to loosen the restraints?

[417]

He has the ability to play center? You mean, in a way that he can skate? As long as you can hold a stick and skate, anyone has the ''ability'' to play center. How actually good is he at the position is what matters, hence my analogy. Seems like the point zoomed right by you.
Drouin is not a center. No matter what spin you want to put on this, he's not. He is put in that position out of pure desperation.
Could we have traded for a young center instead? No clue. But you have no problem saying that you want to wait and see. Always willing to wait. Well, we needed a center, not a winger. We could have re-signed Radulov earlier, and kept Sergachev. Especially if our plan for the left side of the defense was let it all go, then keeping Serg was a must.
Once the Drouin trade happened, that swap looked good. Mostly because very few realized how good and ready Serg already was, and also because we expected other moves to happen. Expecting the right thing to be done by Bergevin, I really do not know what I was thinking.

The really funny part in all this is how Montreal uses a center on the wing and a winger at center. Then people wonder why the **** this team is so bad.

I don't agree with this...

I think Drouin has shown some good (and bad) things as a center, but to suggest he can't play as a center is faulty logic IMO...or some weird hang up with Galchenyuk.

He's not even 30 games into his first true experience as a center, he's learning on the job, I think it's pretty harsh to say he can't do it now. The results so far, are a lot like Galchenyuk's try out as a center...a mixed bag...and an experience that needs to continue so both players can gain more experience playing the position.

Truth is, both Drouin AND Galchenyuk should be centering the top 2 lines on this team.

 

[optimus2861]

As a Habs fan perhaps the biggest fundamental issue with me is this culture of D.

Now I get we haven't had star pivots or teaming with high skill. But we have had high skill guys.

To me, Jacques Demers was our last coach who actually trusted his players out there do use their skill and do their thing. Including young guys. He got out of their way.

Of course you need a system, but our string of coaches coach a strategy of trying not to lose. DON'T make a mistake that costs a goal. DON'T try to make a play to score, let the other team make a mistake and then take advantage of it.

Our systems basically have all players playing the same game regardless of skill.

Chucky has defensive weaknesses, but he can produce offense at centre. Not a centre. DLR is ok defensively and has 0 offense. He is a centre.

Thing is, you can argue all you want, but this coaching style has not resulted into much these past 25 years. Plus, it's boring as hell to watch and the Habs need to learn they are in the entertainment business.

Time for a change? I think so. What do we have to lose, we lose anyway.

Funny, I just had that thought re: Demers earlier this morning, reading through this thread or another one. Not sure where. That 93 team was young compared to anything the Habs have iced since, and no coach since Demers (nor GM since Savard) would've dared ice it. Maybe Carbonneau but he wasn't a great coach in the first place. Anyway.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. The Canadiens as an organization have become this stifling, conservative, our-way-or-the-highway, colossal freaking bore and have stayed that way for a long, long time. But as I keep pointing out, what has it cost them as a business? NOTHING! The stands are full, the TV ratings are high, the merchandise sells, the money just keeps rolling in.

Until the Canadiens suffer as a business from all of their misguided, short-sighted, self-destructive ways, absolutely nothing will change, and the Cup drought will stretch on to 30 years, then 40 years, then 50 years. And it will show no sign of ending, and the next stupid management team will spout all the same platitudes to keep the captive fanbase addicted.

 

[teamfirst]

The damage has been done already... he could've been a much better player than he is. It's a freaking shame.

I dont agree with that, the guy has pretty good stats compare to all the other forward of his age, we saw a progression every year in that department except for this year, the work ethic part of his game is up to him, one thing i see tho is the confidence level is down, i dont know if it's just a coincidence but since CJ is the Habs coach we're not seeing the same offensive jump that he had under MT

 

[Habs Halifax]

He has the ability to play center? You mean, in a way that he can skate? As long as you can hold a stick and skate, anyone has the ''ability'' to play center. How actually good is he at the position is what matters, hence my analogy. Seems like the point zoomed right by you.
Drouin is not a center. No matter what spin you want to put on this, he's not. He is put in that position out of pure desperation.
Could we have traded for a young center instead? No clue. But you have no problem saying that you want to wait and see. Always willing to wait. Well, we needed a center, not a winger. We could have re-signed Radulov earlier, and kept Sergachev. Especially if our plan for the left side of the defense was let it all go, then keeping Serg was a must.
Once the Drouin trade happened, that swap looked good. Mostly because very few realized how good and ready Serg already was, and also because we expected other moves to happen. Expecting the right thing to be done by Bergevin, I really do not know what I was thinking.

The really funny part in all this is how Montreal uses a center on the wing and a winger at center. Then people wonder why the **** this team is so bad.

I agree Drouin is not a proven center. Where we disagree is that he is still young and can develop into a center. Acquiring a talent like this up front and at his age where he is just touching his prime years is a good thing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I dont agree with that, the guy has pretty good stats compare to all the other forward of his age, we saw a progression every year in that department except for this year, the work ethic part of his game is up to him, one thing i see tho is the confidence level is down, i dont know if it's just a coincidence but since CJ is the Habs coach we're not seeing the same offensive jump that he had under MT

We ruined the guy. He's still got the natural talent but he'll never be the player he could've been. There's no reason this guy couldn't have been at least a decent number one center. We just did everything we could to f*** him up.

 

[Sorinth]

I don't agree with this...

I think Drouin has shown some good (and bad) things as a center, but to suggest he can't play as a center is faulty logic IMO...or some weird hang up with Galchenyuk.

He's not even 30 games into his first true experience as a center, he's learning on the job, I think it's pretty harsh to say he can't do it now. The results so far, are a lot like Galchenyuk's try out as a center...a mixed bag...and an experience that needs to continue so both players can gain more experience playing the position.

Truth is, both Drouin AND Galchenyuk should be centering the top 2 lines on this team.

When drafted Drouin was considered a center/winger. Drouin played 1.5 seasons at wing in Juniors and 1 season at center. Compare that to Galchenyuk who played 1 season at center and half a season at wing (Full season if we count the NHL time that year). At the NHL level they've both been used primarily as wingers.

Because Drouin played wing in his draft year people assume he's a winger, it's nonsensical to base everything on that one year. Galchenyuk didn't even play that year so who knows if his Junior team would've moved him to wing like they did the following year.

Both players should be playing center, why people think that because Galchenyuk got the shaft we should repeat those same mistakes with Drouin is beyond me.

 

[417]

When drafted Drouin was considered a center/winger. Drouin played 1.5 seasons at wing in Juniors and 1 season at center. Compare that to Galchenyuk who played 1 season at center and half a season at wing (Full season if we count the NHL time that year). At the NHL level they've both been used primarily as wingers.

Because Drouin played wing in his draft year people assume he's a winger, it's nonsensical to base everything on that one year. Galchenyuk didn't even play that year so who knows if his Junior team would've moved him to wing like they did the following year.

Both players should be playing center, why people think that because Galchenyuk got the shaft we should repeat those same mistakes with Drouin is beyond me.

Agreed 100%...I don't get it, it's like there's resentment for how the team treated Galchenyuk as a center, so that means we have to resent the way Drouin has played as a center so far.

I truly don't get it when people say he's not a center...were you expecting him to be Patrice Bergeron and/or Anze Kopitar incarnated 27 games into the season?

It's a work in progress...but let' snot repeat the same mistake we did with Galchenyuk.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed 100%...I don't get it, it's like there's resentment for how the team treated Galchenyuk as a center, so that means we have to resent the way Drouin has played as a center so far.

I truly don't get it when people say he's not a center...were you expecting him to be Patrice Bergeron and/or Anze Kopitar incarnated 27 games into the season?

It's a work in progress...but let' snot repeat the same mistake we did with Galchenyuk.

I'd say we've already repeated it. Chuck should be at center and Drouin should be on the wing. In both cases we're playing these guys out of position. I seriously don't understand what the hell our team is doing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fair enough. I didn't agree with getting a mark on my work record for somebody else not doing their job but that is the world i live in. I know why I got written up and understood it but didn't like it.

I get team sports work a little differently as I've played minor hockey and coach my son in bantam. In pro sports though, perhaps Molson, Bergevin and his staff need to detach themselves emotionally and do what is best for the team.

Oh, and as for Chuck, the way I see it, he's still playing meh as a winger. Whether it's him mentally or physically, or his line mates or coaching advice, at this point, I'd just put him back at center. Won't make him any less lazy I suppose but it's hard to argue his past couple seasons (pre-injury) success. Worst case, he craps the bed. His value is at an all-time low as it is now, so I can't imagine it getting worst.

Best case scenario? He thrives being back at center. Who knows, maybe we'll win more games because we aren't really doing that now. While I would like to see him at C and Drouin at wing, I'd be fine like what 417 says and play both at center.

Private sector is not the same as NHL GM's who are being watched by fans and media.

I agree there are questionable moves by Bergevin and what he does from this point till the off season will dictate if he keeps his job or not IMO. I don't agree that he is an idiot likes some say or insist he is with the comments they make and how everything is twisted into a negative. Honestly, I really don't care if he is fired or not. I am more focused at circumstance and can we capitalize on the opportunities that present themselves.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Agreed 100%...I don't get it, it's like there's resentment for how the team treated Galchenyuk as a center, so that means we have to resent the way Drouin has played as a center so far.

I truly don't get it when people say he's not a center...were you expecting him to be Patrice Bergeron and/or Anze Kopitar incarnated 27 games into the season?

It's a work in progress...but let' snot repeat the same mistake we did with Galchenyuk.

Maybe you'll answer the question then. How many games do you want to see Drouin tried at center for? I mean, at a certain point if it's not working it's not working, right? When would you pull the pin?

 

[417]

I'd say we've already repeated it. Chuck should be at center and Drouin should be on the wing. In both cases we're playing these guys out of position. I seriously don't understand what the hell our team is doing.

Personally...I think they should both be playing center.

And they should BOTH be playing MORE. They should be exposed to more situations than they currently are, even if they struggle or fail, that's how you learn.

This isn't about winning games anymore, because we're not even winning games.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Maybe you'll answer the question then. How many games do you want to see Drouin tried at center for? I mean, at a certain point if it's not working it's not working, right? When would you pull the pin?

Who cares how many games Drouin plays at center or wing? We are going to try many options because we don't have many proven matured centers. Blame whoever you want about that but our Coach will experiment with our line-up. You already said we are coached well by Julien in another post... Don't you trust Julien at how he is running with Drouin at center vs Galchenyuk? Or is he not a good coach now when it comes to this?

 

[417]

Maybe you'll answer the question then. How many games do you want to see Drouin tried at center for? I mean, at a certain point if it's not working it's not working, right? When would you pull the pin?

I don't have a certain fixed number in mind...

Furthermore, I don't have the same conclusion as you, that it's not working.

I think it's been a mixed bag, but I think he's shown the right attitude and effort on the ice that tells me he's learning. It's not easy, it wasn't going to be an easy and smooth transition.

The only way I'd pull the pin on this is if Bergevin traded for a player who is clearly well established in the NHL as a center, then I'd maybe consider it.

But given the options we do have...I refuse to believe there are 2 better centers on this team than Drouin & Galchenyuk.

It's not Danault, it's certainly not Plekanec or Froese and it's not DLR...

The problem I see is they converted Drouin to center, but they rarely expose him to situations where he can grow as a center.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I don't have a certain fixed number in mind...

Furthermore, I don't have the same conclusion as you, that it's not working.

I think it's been a mixed bag, but I think he's shown the right attitude and effort on the ice that tells me he's learning. It's not easy, it wasn't going to be an easy and smooth transition.

The only way I'd pull the pin on this is if Bergevin traded for a player who is clearly well established in the NHL as a center, then I'd maybe consider it.

But given the options we do have...I refuse to believe there are 2 better centers on this team than Drouin & Galchenyuk.

It's not Danault, it's certainly not Plekanec or Froese and it's not DLR...

The problem I see is they converted Drouin to center, but they rarely expose him to situations where he can grow as a center.

I haven't concluded that it's not working yet, but I think it should be reviewed after a good sample. Say, 40 games. I don't think that he should be forced there indefinitely, if for the only reason that perhaps Galchenyuk - Drouin, with chuck at center and jo on wing, might actually be a really good combination.

If he lights it up at center and his defensive game improves, and he improves on the dot in the meantime, by all means, leave him there. But with his current performance, putting him on wing is nothing to pitch a fit about.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Who cares how many games Drouin plays at center or wing? We are going to try many options because we don't have many proven matured centers. Blame whoever you want about that but our Coach will experiment with our line-up. You already said we are coached well by Julien in another post... Don't you trust Julien at how he is running with Drouin at center vs Galchenyuk? Or is he not a good coach now when it comes to this?

Because saying that Drouin is only going to play center forever and ever no matter the results clearly limits those options?

I would like to see Julien experiment with Drouin. Or at least be able to. I do believe we're a well coached team right now, even if I don't completely agree with all of his moves.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Trade him for whatever you want. Just trade him, he deserve better than MB and CJ.

 

[groovejuice]

I don't agree with this...

I think Drouin has shown some good (and bad) things as a center, but to suggest he can't play as a center is faulty logic IMO...or some weird hang up with Galchenyuk.

He's not even 30 games into his first true experience as a center, he's learning on the job, I think it's pretty harsh to say he can't do it now. The results so far, are a lot like Galchenyuk's try out as a center...a mixed bag...and an experience that needs to continue so both players can gain more experience playing the position.

Truth is, both Drouin AND Galchenyuk should be centering the top 2 lines on this team.

Drouin has shown very little so far at centre, but the expectations thrust on him by Bergevin are unreasonable.

It's just another clear example of Bergevin operating on whims and random moves instead of following a specific, well thought out plan.

Had he acquired a decent #2C and
re-signed Radulov along with Drouin we'd be substantially better. If he would have not acquired Drouin, and kept Sergachev along with a #2C and re-signed Radulov, we'd also be substantially better.

Too little then, too late now.

 

[teamfirst]

We ruined the guy. He's still got the natural talent but he'll never be the player he could've been. There's no reason this guy couldn't have been at least a decent number one center. We just did everything we could to **** him up.

Dont think he's ruin but CJ better start showing him some confidence and play him more if not as a C at least play him on the first PP, and if i remember correctly Chucky was our 1st C last year until he got injured and he was doing quite well offensively, when he cameback he had a hard time picking up his game and thats why MT put him on the wing, i dont think the idea was to keep him on the wing for the rest of the season......and CJ came in and decided to take Chucky ''under his wing''.......that's when thing started to go downhill for him

I'm not putting all the blame on CJ cuz i think that players always have to make sure that a coach has no choice but to use them alot by having a up to par work ethic, that's why i said earlier that the work ethic part of his game is up to him, he clearly need to be better at that, even if he get traded he will need to show his new coach that he is ready to pay the price and work hard all the time not only occasionaly

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dont think he's ruin but CJ better start showing him some confidence and play him more if not as a C at least play him on the first PP, and if i remember correctly Chucky was our 1st C last year until he got injured and he was doing quite well offensively, when he cameback he had a hard time picking up his game and thats why MT put him on the wing, i dont think the idea was to keep him on the wing for the rest of the season......and CJ came in and decided to take Chucky ''under his wing''.......that's when thing started to go downhill for him

I'm not putting all the blame on CJ cuz i think that players always have to make sure that a coach has no choice but to use them alot by having a up to par work ethic, that's why i said earlier that the work ethic part of his game is up to him, he clearly need to be better at that, even if he get traded he will need to show his new coach that he is ready to pay the price and work hard all the time not only occasionaly

Galchenyuk was already behind the 8 ball by the time CJ got here.

I just don't ever see him becoming a front line player and that's what I think he should be by now. .

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because saying that Drouin is only going to play center forever and ever no matter the results clearly limits those options?

I would like to see Julien experiment with Drouin. Or at least be able to. I do believe we're a well coached team right now, even if I don't completely agree with all of his moves.

Well... that's how I feel about Bergevin but you attack me over and over for it, saying I am pro-Bergevin when I am simply defending certain parts of what he has done vs others. I bet you if Julien was coaching for 4 or 5 years, you would be all over him just like you are with Bergevin today.

I don't believe Drouin will play center forever and ever. It's anybodies guess who we are able to acquire and what prospects make our team in the next few years. That will likely change the coaches options.

 

[G0bias]

I don't agree with this...

I think Drouin has shown some good (and bad) things as a center, but to suggest he can't play as a center is faulty logic IMO...or some weird hang up with Galchenyuk.

He's not even 30 games into his first true experience as a center, he's learning on the job, I think it's pretty harsh to say he can't do it now. The results so far, are a lot like Galchenyuk's try out as a center...a mixed bag...and an experience that needs to continue so both players can gain more experience playing the position.

Truth is, both Drouin AND Galchenyuk should be centering the top 2 lines on this team.

What Galchenyuk has shown at center was far more convincing than what Drouin -or anyone else for that matter- has shown. So far.

Personally I think shoehorning Drouin at center is wasting his talents. He's at his best challenging and keeping the dmen on their heels as the highest guy up IMO. But it's another lost season so I don't care anymore if they want to give him more time. At some point, you need to see what Galchenyuk centering Drouin can bring however.

As for your last line, that won't happen. This organization has repeatedly shown they'd much rather prioritize the 'safer' scenarios in the quest for immediate tangible results (wins) at the expense of mid to long term gains. Despite that approach leading us nowhere over the years and no longer even bringing in short-term results.

 

[teamfirst]

Galchenyuk was already behind the 8 ball by the time CJ got here.

I just don't ever see him becoming a front line player and that's what I think he should be by now. .

 

[Habs Halifax]

Trade him for whatever you want. Just trade him, he deserve better than MB and CJ.

NOPE! Trading him for the sake of trading him is a stupid move.

 

[teamfirst]

Galchenyuk was already behind the 8 ball by the time CJ got here.

I just don't ever see him becoming a front line player and that's what I think he should be by now. .

co'mon now you're not being honest ......last year before his injury he was our first line center and doing very well

 

[NotProkofievian]

Well... that's how I feel about Bergevin but you attack me over and over for it saying I am pro-Bergevin when I am simply defending certain parts of what he has done vs others. I bet you if Julien was coaching for 4 or 5 years, you would be all over him just like you are with Bergevin today.

Who do you think you're kidding? We both know you wouldn't actually make that bet.

I don't believe Drouin will play center forever and ever. It's anybodies guess who we are able to acquire and what prospects make our team in the next few years. That will likely change the coaches options.

Julien has options now that he's not really allowed to explore by Bergevin's edict. Hence the question. How much more of the current results of the Drouin at center experiment before we should give him a few shifts on the wing?