Player Discussion Alex Galchenyuk: Time to loosen the restraints?

[NotProkofievian]

NOPE! Trading him for the sake of trading him is a stupid move.

This I agree with.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

NOPE! Trading him for the sake of trading him is a stupid move.

I agree with you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Who do you think you're kidding? We both know you wouldn't actually make that bet.

Julien has options now that he's not really allowed to explore by Bergevin's edict. Hence the question. How much more of the current results of the Drouin at center experiment before we should give him a few shifts on the wing?

You are correct, not making a bet with and undetermined outcome where you can change your opinion just so you win the bet. That's like making a deal with the devil

The way this year is going, I rather see Drouin play center full time for the whole year. I also rather see Galchenyuk play center as well. Take advantage of an off year and run with youth. Trade Patch and Pleky for futures and run with the youth to see what they are made out of. Have a good draft in 2018 and re-tool for next year.

Hudon / Drouin / Gallagher
Lehkonen / Galchenyuk / Scherbak
Byron / Danault / Shaw
Carr / DLR / McCarron

Benn / Weber
Alzner / Petry
Jerabek / Schlemko

 

[teamfirst]

Galchenyuk was already behind the 8 ball by the time CJ got here.

I just don't ever see him becoming a front line player and that's what I think he should be by now. .

just check the stats of last year, he had 9g 14ass 23 pts in 25 games before his injury playing as our first C, how can you call that ''behind the 8 ball'' and thinking that youre right when saying that, unless you're hatred of MT is clouding your judgment

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

co'mon now you're not being honest ......last year before his injury he was our first line center and doing very well

He almost always done well when we've used him at first line center. Then he'll have a bad couple of games and it's back to the wing for him. And that's exactly what happened again last year after he came off the DL.

It's a joke.

 

[NotProkofievian]

You are correct, not making a bet with and undetermined outcome where you can change your opinion just so you win the bet. That's like making a deal with the devil

The way this year is going, I rather see Drouin play center full time for the whole year. I also rather see Galchenyuk play center as well. Take advantage of an off year and run with youth. Trade Patch and Pleky for futures and run with the youth to see what they are made out of. Have a good draft in 2018 and re-tool for next year.

Hudon / Drouin / Gallagher
Lehkonen / Galchenyuk / Scherbak
Byron / Danault / Shaw
Carr / DLR / McCarron

Benn / Weber
Alzner / Petry
Jerabek / Schlemko

Selling off Patch and Plek is pretty much the only logical play. ''Going for it'' has to be the dumbest thing imaginable. Hey guys, let's try to get into a playoff matchup with Toronto. It'll be fine.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree with you.

This I agree with.

I explore my options with Patch first and showcase Galchenyuk a bit more with a little less patience allowing him to learn on the job. Show other GM's what he can do offensively and then trade him for an similar asset addressing a team need. It don't have to be this year, it can be in the off season or before trade deadline 2019. I rather keep him but I just don't see him re-signing with us after this 3 year deal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

just check the stats of last year, he had 9g 14ass 23 pts in 25 games before his injury playing as our first C, how can you call that ''behind the 8 ball'' and thinking that youre right when saying that, unless you're hatred of MT is clouding your judgment

That was with Radulov, a great start, and a very good defensive team with a great goalie. When Galchenyuk came back, it was a different circumstance where we were struggling as a team. If Galchenyuk is put into a secondary support role on a strong team, he is going to put up good numbers like the 23 pts in 25 games last year. The issues are lack of confidence and it has gotten better as this season moved along but still has a very long way to go IMO

 

[Sorinth]

I'd say we've already repeated it. Chuck should be at center and Drouin should be on the wing. In both cases we're playing these guys out of position. I seriously don't understand what the hell our team is doing.

I don't disagree that Galchenyuk should be at center but why should Drouin be on the wing? Because he played wing for some of his Junior career? So did Galchenyuk. Because he's been used mostly as a winger in the NHL? So has Galchenyuk. Because he's bad defensively? So is Galchenyuk.

What exactly classifies him as a winger?

 

[417]

I haven't concluded that it's not working yet, but I think it should be reviewed after a good sample. Say, 40 games. I don't think that he should be forced there indefinitely, if for the only reason that perhaps Galchenyuk - Drouin, with chuck at center and jo on wing, might actually be a really good combination.

If he lights it up at center and his defensive game improves, and he improves on the dot in the meantime, by all means, leave him there. But with his current performance, putting him on wing is nothing to pitch a fit about.

No not at all...I wasn't suggesting that.

But like I said about Galchenyuk yesterday, if you're going to put him or Drouin on the wing, make sure if for someone better.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Selling off Patch and Plek is pretty much the only logical play. ''Going for it'' has to be the dumbest thing imaginable. Hey guys, let's try to get into a playoff matchup with Toronto. It'll be fine.

Yeah, I will hate if we barely miss the playoffs or make it and face the Leafs and lose in the first round. The unfortunate situation is Bergevin knows his job is on the line. I don't see him making any drastic moves at this point (going for it or trading assets like Patch and Pleky). I can just imagine the back-lash he gets from the media and fan base if he has a press conference and says we are going to take a few steps back and rebuild so we are stronger in a few years. There is pretty much nothing (except for Tavares) he can do to make the majority of our fan base happy at this stage

 

[417]

Drouin has shown very little so far at centre, but the expectations thrust on him by Bergevin are unreasonable.

It's just another clear example of Bergevin operating on whims and random moves instead of following a specific, well thought out plan.

Had he acquired a decent #2C and
re-signed Radulov along with Drouin we'd be substantially better. If he would have not acquired Drouin, and kept Sergachev along with a #2C and re-signed Radulov, we'd also be substantially better.

Too little then, too late now.

I don't have the same evaluation...but fair enough

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't disagree that Galchenyuk should be at center but why should Drouin be on the wing? Because he played wing for some of his Junior career? So did Galchenyuk. Because he's been used mostly as a winger in the NHL? So has Galchenyuk. Because he's bad defensively? So is Galchenyuk.

What exactly classifies him as a winger?

With Chuck, he's always produced better at center than on the wing. That's why I'd have developed him there.

As for Drouin, I just don't see him as a center. I think we'd have gotten a much better return on that trade if we'd put him on Galchenyuk's wing. And so far this season I haven't seen anything to think otherwise.

I'm not saying Drouin couldn't eventually become a center, I just wouldn't bother doing this with him right now. We needed a center (we obviously weren't going to put Chuck there) so why did we go get another young player who's not played at center and test him out there? What's the point in doing this?

If you need a center go get one. If you feel Drouin is talented enough to warrant trading for... fine. But don't bring him to a new team and have him starting to learn a new position. It's not setting him or us up for success.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Is Bergevin's success/failure tied to Galchenyuk's development? After all, he was his 1st draft pick at the 3rd overall position just shortly after he took the GM job. I wonder where we would be today if Galchenyuk was a impact #1C?

 

[Sorinth]

What Galchenyuk has shown at center was far more convincing than what Drouin -or anyone else for that matter- has shown. So far.

And for most of Galchenyuk's time at center he's had puck moving Dmen that can actually transition the play. It's not fair to say we miss Markov or Subban's puck moving skills and then pretend like it's not going to have an impact on Drouin's play.

Personally I think shoehorning Drouin at center is wasting his talents. He's at his best challenging and keeping the dmen on their heels as the highest guy up IMO. But it's another lost season so I don't care anymore if they want to give him more time. At some point, you need to see what Galchenyuk centering Drouin can bring however.

As for your last line, that won't happen. This organization has repeatedly shown they'd much rather prioritize the 'safer' scenarios in the quest for immediate tangible results (wins) at the expense of mid to long term gains. Despite that approach leading us nowhere over the years and no longer even bringing in short-term results.

Drouin's ability to challenge D with his speed/puck handling is certainly one of his best assets. But guess what, that's one of McDavid's best assets as well, does that mean McDavid is more suited to the wing as well? Of course not. Being fast is not a good reason to move someone to wing.

Drouin like Galchenyuk benefits from having open space. Space is minimized on the wing compared to center. That's way more important then being able to leave the zone a few seconds earlier.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Not sure how people can say Drouin has shown very little at center while simultaneously tooting Galchenyuk's horn at center, they have similar issues.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah, I will hate if we barely miss the playoffs or make it and face the Leafs and lose in the first round. The unfortunate situation is Bergevin knows his job is on the line. I don't see him making any drastic moves at this point (going for it or trading assets like Patch and Pleky). I can just imagine the back-lash he gets from the media and fan base if he has a press conference and says we are going to take a few steps back and rebuild so we are stronger in a few years. There is pretty much nothing (except for Tavares) he can do to make the majority of our fan base happy at this stage

This is sort of where a strong president of hockey ops would come in. You just can't have a GM making fearful decisions. I agree, he's run out of slack with everyone. After telling everyone that we're better this year than last, especially at the blueline, and that this is the first year the team is built in his image he just can't say ''well, time to rebuild'' 4 months later. But he really should.

That to me spells the end of his tenure. He no longer has the credibility to make the correct decision.

 

[Sorinth]

With Chuck, he's always produced better at center than on the wing. That's why I'd have developed him there.

As for Drouin, I just don't see him as a center. I think we'd have gotten a much better return on that trade if we'd put him on Galchenyuk's wing. And so far this season I haven't seen anything to think otherwise.

I'm not saying Drouin couldn't eventually become a center, I just wouldn't bother doing this with him right now. We needed a center (we obviously weren't going to put Chuck there) so why did we go get another young player who's not played at center and test him out there? What's the point in doing this?

If you need a center go get one. If you feel Drouin is talented enough to warrant trading for... fine. But don't bring him to a new team and have him starting to learn a new position. It's not setting him or us up for success.

I hope you realize how lame a reason this is.

Forget the stupidity behind management's decisions for a minute and judge Drouin on Drouin. Either he can be a center or there's some flaw(s) in his game preventing him from being one. If you can't actually come up with those flaws then it makes no sense to move Drouin to wing.

Drouin at center doesn't have any impact on Galchenyuk at center. They proved that when Drouin missed games, they'd rather guys like Mitchell and DLR center one of the top lines then give Galchenyuk his shot. It's mind boggling dumb, but it's not at all related to Drouin.

 

[G0bias]

Drouin's ability to challenge D with his speed/puck handling is certainly one of his best assets. But guess what, that's one of McDavid's best assets as well, does that mean McDavid is more suited to the wing as well? Of course not. Being fast is not a good reason to move someone to wing.

Drouin like Galchenyuk benefits from having open space. Space is minimized on the wing compared to center. That's way more important then being able to leave the zone a few seconds earlier.

That was one line describing his abilities. Not like I was going to post a full player analysis. C'mon now.

That said, I find this ironic because the large majority saying he's a good fit at center have been bringing up just that, his speed and mobility, as the defining characteristic that makes him a center. Just like you pointed out, being fast also isn't a good reason to move someone to center.

There's alot more involved. Of note, just like some here believe Galchenyuk's deficiencies in the Dzone and lack of face-off ability are too significant ignore, those are two aspects of the role Drouin has demonstratedly been worse.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I hope you realize how lame a reason this is.

It's lame to give your own opinion on how a player is being used? Okay...

Forget the stupidity behind management's decisions for a minute and judge Drouin on Drouin. Either he can be a center or there's some flaw(s) in his game preventing him from being one. If you can't actually come up with those flaws then it makes no sense to move Drouin to wing.

Drouin at center doesn't have any impact on Galchenyuk at center. They proved that when Drouin missed games, they'd rather guys like Mitchell and DLR center one of the top lines then give Galchenyuk his shot. It's mind boggling dumb, but it's not at all related to Drouin.

That's fine. I just don't see him as a very good center and I think he'd be better on the wing. Nowhere did I say he could never be a center or that it would never work... it's just not what I'd do. And I certainly wouldn't have traded for him with the intent of making him a center. I'm sorry if you find that lame but I just don't think it's a good idea.

 

[Habs178]

Not sure how people can say Drouin has shown very little at center while simultaneously tooting Galchenyuk's horn at center, they have similar issues.

But not similar numbers.....at center.

 

[groovejuice]

I don't have the same evaluation...but fair enough

I'm not suggesting he isn't playing well, merely that he's in the wrong position. For all the over the top criticism of Galchenyuk's defensive game, Drouin is even less effective.

When your best players can't even be positioned to succeed, how in the world can the team as a group? It's notoriously poor management.

 

[admiralcadillac]

But not similar numbers.....at center.

I suppose small sample sizes aren't a thing anymore

 

[Sorinth]

That was one line describing his abilities. Not like I was going to post a full player analysis. C'mon now.

That said, I find this ironic because the large majority saying he's a good fit at center have been bringing up just that, his speed and mobility, as the defining characteristic that makes him a center. Just like you pointed out, being fast also isn't a good reason to move someone to center.

There's alot more involved. Of note, just like some here believe Galchenyuk's deficiencies in the Dzone and lack of face-off ability are too significant ignore, those are two aspects of the role Drouin has demonstratedly been worse.

I'm not calling you out specifically, but people who defended Therrin putting Galchenyuk at wing all those times posted exactly like you did. They point out a specific thing in his game (Normally his shot) and use that as the reason moving him to wing was the right call. It was dumb reasoning then and it's dumb now.

The same goes for the defensive ability. It never made sense to use that as a reason for Galchneyuk to not be played at center. He was never going to get better defensively playing the wing so if the goal is to develop him to be a top center then you have to bite the bullet and live with the mistakes and try and teach him to be better. It's was true for Galchenyuk and it's true for Drouin. We need to give Drouin the chance to make mistakes and to learn from them, and that takes lots of time.

 

[Sorinth]

It's lame to give your own opinion on how a player is being used? Okay...

That's fine. I just don't see him as a very good center and I think he'd be better on the wing. Nowhere did I say he could never be a center or that it would never work... it's just not what I'd do. And I certainly wouldn't have traded for him with the intent of making him a center. I'm sorry if you find that lame but I just don't think it's a good idea.

What's lame is that I asked for specifics and you respond with the vague "I don't see it" and then talk about mistakes management has made which are irrelevant to whether Drouin is or can be a center.

It gives the impression that you are just against everything management does simply because it was their idea. Bergevin can't be fired fast enough, but that doesn't mean it's a mistake to try and develop Drouin as a center.