Player Discussion Alex Galchenyuk: Time to loosen the restraints?

[Hockey POTUS]

Bergevin won't change his mind. He'd rather be right in his own mind than win. He's inflexible. He thinks there's one right way and it's his. Even if his way results in failure.

 

[CauZuki]

I don't care what people think what the Management thinks. I like having more options at center and Drouin does that for us (proven center or not). The main reason why I like us acquiring Drouin is added offense and a young player under team control on a long term contract. The fact that he can potentially play center is a added bonus IMO. That's why we made that deal

When you see 1 for 1 trades often times the team trading away the D are getting a far and away better forward (see: Johansen/Hall) as there is a premium on talented D. However Bergevin won't have any of that he adds a pick to ensure to give Stevie Y a guarantee in case Sergachev doesn't developp quickly enough... Why make this trade if it doesn't solve one of our main issues at C? I heard all summer how it was okay to let Radulov walk since we have great depth at wing...Now all of a sudden we are trading blue chip D for another winger? This was a desperate move , made by a GM who has no clue what needs to happen to turn this team into a contender. He made that abundantly clear when he said the solution was in the room and that he believes once you are in the playoffs anything can happen. Which is an outright lie that ignores statistical data over the last 2 decades. Show me one team that has won the cup since the Crosby lottery without an Elite number 1 C.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And our GM. You should throw this part in there, come now your'e doing good here.

Our GM needs to adapt and it remains to be seen if he will or not. I also evaluate at GM year to year, not day to day, week to week, or month to month. Talk to me after the draft and free agency this off season. Certainly a critical point with Bergevin and I have been saying it for months now. I will make my final determination after I see what we do this year and the off season. However, if you want me to call him an idiot, it's not going to happen. That is not a game I play

 

[Habs Halifax]

When you see 1 for 1 trades often times the team trading away the D are getting a far an away better forward (see: Johansen/Hall) as there is a premium on talented D.
Why make this trade if it doesn't solve one of our main issues at C? I heard all summer how it was okay to let Radulov walk since we have great depth at wing...Now all of a sudden we are trading blue chip D for another winger? This was a desperate move , made by a GM who has no clue what needs to happen to turn this team into a contender. He made that abundantly clear when he said the solution was in the room and that he believes once you are in the playoffs anything can happen. Which is an outright lie that ignores statistical data over the last 2 decades. Show me one team that has won the cup since the Crosby lottery without an Elite number 1 C.

This is why I support making moves to improve our age 18-25 core.

As far as Radulov.... I personally never said it was OK to lose him. I think we all feel the pain of him walking to Dallas and leaving us behind. The difference between you and me is you want to blame someone. I think the blame should be pointed towards not signing Radulov to a multi year deal from the beginning.

But anyways.. this is getting side tracked. This thread should be about Galchenyuk.

 

[NotProkofievian]

This is why I support making moves to improve our age 18-25 core.

As far as Radulov.... I personally never said it was OK to lose him. I think we all feel the pain of him walking to Dallas and leaving us behind. The difference between you and me is you want to blame someone. I think the blame should be pointed towards not signing Radulov to a multi year deal from the beginning.

But anyways.. this is getting side tracked. This thread should be about Galchenyuk.

You do know that Bergevin flat out refused to sign Radulov to a 2 year deal? You do know it, as I've mentioned it to you several times.

...who is to blame for that?

 

[OldCraig71]

Our GM needs to adapt and it remains to be seen if he will or not. I also evaluate at GM year to year, not day to day, week to week, or month to month. Talk to me after the draft and free agency this off season. Certainly a critical point with Bergevin and I have been saying it for months now. I will make my final determination after I see what we do with this year and the off season. However, if you want me to call him an idiot, it's not going to happen. That is not a game I play

Okay, i'm done here, there's room for all of us. Cheers.

 

[417]

Well you are in fact saying those things , since we've only had about 3 homegrown elite Ds over the last 2 decades , how is it meaningful to hope on that scenario happening again?

lol actually...I'm not.

YOU are in fact the one writing that. Nowhere in my post did you see me write that.

That's the problem with the boards these days...people drawing conclusions for others, then calling them out on it.

What I said, or rather, what I challenged you on is clear. I challenged you on the notion that we won't be able to compete with a 35-38yr old Weber.

The rest is just you making stuff up as you go along.

Essentially I'm arguing the vision is poor since our team wasn't ready to contend and Bergevin made a trade that brought in "his type of player" but one that was 4 years old than our existing Norris winning D. I bring up the age since the original poster I quoted , said we had a 4-6 year window to compete , which is garbage. We have a young team in terms of forwards but we not only lack an elite C but also an elite D once Weber ages himself out of that category. In the nearly 6 years since Bergevin tookover the Canadiens , the team hasn't made progress to the point of adding such pieces , why would he get the benefit of the doubt for the next few years?

I agree with a lot of what you wrote here, but it's really got nothing to do with what I challenged you on.

I don't think even the best GM could salvage this team. Our prospect pool is thin , our picks aren't worth much because we often manage to stay outside the top 10 and our most valuable pieces are all signed way above market value...Good luck Mr. Next GM.

Meh...not sure I agree with that.

I don't think we need a miracle to turn this around. Just someone willing to break the mould of how GM's, even the best intentioned ones, tend to operate in this market.

I mean, look at this team as presently built...you don't need to be a genius to know that while it's a team probably good enough to challenge for a playoff spot, there are too many foundational gaps for it to be a real challenger.

So trade Pacioretty, trade Plekanec...entertain ideas to move Weber if you can, same with Price.

I personally think that even if Bergevin wanted to do this, he doesn't have the courage too...even Serge Savard recently said it, a rebuild with the Montreal Canadiens is NOT acceptable, it's not the Montreal Canadiens way.

 

[417]

I don't care what people think what the Management thinks. I like having more options at center and Drouin does that for us (proven center or not). The main reason why I like us acquiring Drouin is added offense and a young player under team control on a long term contract. The fact that he can potentially play center is a added bonus IMO. That's why we made that deal

There's really no reason why this team shouldn't be using Jonathan Drouin AND Alex Galchenyuk at center.

Absolutely ZERO reasons.

 

[CauZuki]

lol actually...I'm not.

YOU are in fact the one writing that. Nowhere in my post did you see me write that.

That's the problem with the boards these days...people drawing conclusions for others, then calling them out on it.

What I said, or rather, what I challenged you on is clear. I challenged you on the notion that we won't be able to compete with a 35-38yr old Weber.

The rest is just you making stuff up as you go along.



I agree with a lot of what you wrote here, but it's really got nothing to do with what I challenged you on.



Meh...not sure I agree with that.

I don't think we need a miracle to turn this around. Just someone willing to break the mould of how GM's, even the best intentioned ones, tend to operate in this market.

I mean, look at this team as presently built...you don't need to be a genius to know that while it's a team probably good enough to challenge for a playoff spot, there are too many foundational gaps for it to be a real challenger.

So trade Pacioretty, trade Plekanec...entertain ideas to move Weber if you can, same with Price.

I personally think that even if Bergevin wanted to do this, he doesn't have the courage too...even Serge Savard recently said it, a rebuild with the Montreal Canadiens is NOT acceptable, it's not the Montreal Canadiens way.

Well then the Montreal Canadiens will never win a 25th cup if we aren't able to adapt our culture. We need an elite C to win a cup in today's NHL and the defacto way of acquiring one is multiple attempts via top picks. This is why I know we are only spinning our wheels while other teams actually build teams capable of winning a cup.

 

[417]

He doesn't ask for a trade as he is not the type, he works hard on/off the ice and always says the rights things during the interviews. Then he gets hit by his girlfriend one day and all of a sudden he is a lazy , no heart , Russian with a drug problem. Perputuated by the xenophobes that always have the same comments regardless of the very different players of Russian decent.

The only problem with Galchenyuk is that he doesn't have a North American name.

That's questionable, at best.

Nevertheless, I don't disagree with the overall tone of your post...essentially that the team hasn't also helped him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There's really no reason why this team shouldn't be using Jonathan Drouin AND Alex Galchenyuk at center.

Absolutely ZERO reasons.

Agreed. This is why I support to take a few steps back and relieve the pressure to win. Then we can allow our young players to learn on the job and not be attacked by our fan base or management when they make a mistake.

 

[417]

Well then the Montreal Canadiens will never win a 25th cup if we aren't able to adapt our culture. We need an elite C to win a cup in today's NHL and the defacto way of acquiring one is multiple attempts via top picks. This is why I know we are only spinning our wheels while other teams actually build teams capable of winning a cup.

Probably not...which is why I've recently been championing the cause for the next GM to have absolutely no ties to the past of this team, the city or province.

But we're straying away from the thread topic of Galchenyuk.

I'm wondering at what point this coaching staff is going to tell themselves that they have absolutely the worse set of centers there in the NHL, why not just give Galchenyuk AND Drouin a shot?

 

[417]

Agreed. This is why I support to take a few steps back and relieve the pressure to win. Then we can allow our young players to learn on the job and not be attacked by our fan base or management when they make a mistake.

Yeah, it's no doubt this 'pressure to win' that's forcing the coaching staff to think there's anything to be gained in the immediate-medium-long term by keeping Galchenyuk on the win for 12 mins a game and playing Tomas Plekanec as a center 18 mins a game.

It's that same 'pressure to win' that makes the GM trade Sergachev for Drouin (great trade IMO), then basically use him as a 3rd line center in terms of time on ice, and use your pending free agent 35yr old center coming off a 10 goal campaign, as one of your top 6C's.

But it becomes close to insanity when we're actually NOT winning while employing this strategy lol.

 

[CauZuki]

Probably not...which is why I've recently been championing the cause for the next GM to have absolutely no ties to the past of this team, the city or province.

But we're straying away from the thread topic of Galchenyuk.

I'm wondering at what point this coaching staff is going to tell themselves that they have absolutely the worse set of centers there in the NHL, why not just give Galchenyuk AND Drouin a shot?

Galchenyuk is never playing C in Montreal again. Our great and powerful leader Kim Jong Bergevin has commanded it.

 

[417]

Galchenyuk is never playing C in Montreal ever again. Our great and powerful leader Kim Jong Bergevin has commanded it.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that...

BUT...if he's not going to play center, then make sure whoever IS playing center, is better than what Galchenyuk was, when he WAS, playing center.

And while I don't give as much weight to Galchenyuk's performance as a center during our lost season and the first 25 games of last year...(I thought we needed more time to see him in that role)

Those 60-70 odd games as a center, was better than anything we've seen from anyone else in that same scenario.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well then the Montreal Canadiens will never win a 25th cup if we aren't able to adapt our culture. We need an elite C to win a cup in today's NHL and the defacto way of acquiring one is multiple attempts via top picks. This is why I know we are only spinning our wheels while other teams actually build teams capable of winning a cup.

Preds can win a cup this year. Who is there elite level center? How about the Kings, Blues, BJ's? Teams that win a cup have depth and talent up the middle. I understand what you are saying but there are many ways to build a contending team. Tanking and building a cup contender like the Pens is hoping for stars to align all at once in your favor. Lets look at the Pens...

2003: Fleury (1)
2004: Maklin (2)
2005: Crosby (1), Letang (62)
2006: Staal (2)

Lets say Crosby is drafted in 2003. Do you think they stink so bad in the following years that they get all those 1st and 2nd? Now, lets flip the coin and look at the Oilers? How many pieces are they away from being a cup contender even with McDavid and all those 1st overall picks prior to drafting him?

A rebuild and thinking we are the next Pens or Leafs is a foolish plan IMO. It's tunnel vision and neglecting to see how many failed rebuilds there are for every lucky rebuild their is.

 

[CauZuki]

Preds can win a cup this year. Who is there elite level center? How about the Kings, Blues, BJ's? Teams that win a cup have depth and talent up the middle. I understand what you are saying but there are many ways to build a contending team.

Tanking and building a cup contender like the Pens is hoping for stars to align all at once in your favor. Lets look at the Pens...

2003: Fleury (1)
2004: Maklin (2)
2005: Crosby (1), Letang (62)
2006: Staal (2)

Lets say Crosby is drafted in 2003. Do you think they stink so bad in the following years that they get all those 1st and 2nd? Now, lets flip the coin and look at the Oilers? How many pieces are they away from being a cup contender even with McDavid and all those 1st overall picks?

A rebuild and thinking we are the next Pens or Leafs is a foolish plan IMO. It's tunnel vision and neglecting to see how many failed rebuilds there are for every lucky rebuild their is.

So we ignore that other teams besides Pittsburgh have won a cup? That every single one of those teams had top Cs?

I understand that it takes multiple good pieces to win a cup , great coaching and a little luck help as well. But I just have issue with our GM saying the answer is in the locker room and that anything can happen with Price in nets , when we know for a fact the last 12 cup winners had:

Pittsburgh: Crosby/Malkin
Chicago: Toews
Kings: Kopitar
Bruins: Multiple elite 2way centers.
Detroit: Datsyuk
Ducks: Getzlaf
Canes: Staal

I've said it multiple times it's not possible to replicate the Pittsburgh scenario , especially with the new lottery rules. That doesn't mean trying to glue together a contender with our current core is a better strategy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So we ignore that other teams besides Pittsburgh have won a cup? That every single one of those teams had top Cs?

I understand that it takes multiple good pieces to win a cup , great coaching and a little luck help as well. But I just have issue with our GM saying the answer is in the locker room and that anything can happen with Price in nets , when we know for a fact the last 12 cup winners had:

Pittsburgh: Crosby/Malkin
Chicago: Toews
Kings: Kopitar
Bruins: Multiple elite 2way centers.
Detroit: Datsyuk
Ducks: Getzlaf
Canes: Staal

I've said it multiple times it's not possible to replicate the Pittsburgh scenario , especially with the new lottery rules. That doesn't mean trying to glue together a contender with our current core is a better strategy.

You are right, Many teams that win a cup have a #1C and also depth behind them. Where you are incorrect is there is many ways to build a cup contender and there is no real exact formula. A complete rebuild works for teams that tripped into it. If we continue to be a middle of the pack team for several years, then yeah, we are heading into that trap. However, we can be a much stronger team in a few years if we make the right moves today...

Take a step or two backwards and relieve the pressure to win in Montreal. Lets create a culture where our young players can play without being attacked on every single mistake they make by both the fans and management

 

[Electricity]

Play him at center after we trade Patch, Pleky, Benn. Run with youth and take some losses by resting Price and Weber as much as possible. Lets give ourselves time to evaluate how good these kids are while we give ourselves a better shot at a lottery pick

This is also known as a "tank" or "rebuild" in some circles. I think you've really stumbled upon a great idea that everyone else can get behind. Nice job.

 

[CauZuki]

This is also known as a "tank" or "rebuild" in some circles. I think you've really stumbled upon a great idea that everyone else can get behind. Nice job.

We've officially come full circle .

 

[sandviper]

There's really no reason why this team shouldn't be using Jonathan Drouin AND Alex Galchenyuk at center.

Absolutely ZERO reasons.

Sure there is... the ego of management says Chuck is a winger. As fans, we must blindly put our faith in their decisions and agree. regardless of the outcome, we can't say anything until the end of the year.

 

[Habs100]

I know he sometimes has trouble with defensive zone coverage, but to me he's at his best when he's going for the puck with speed.
His biggest trouble is when he's standing on the boards waiting for the puck.
I'd give him the challenge of playing as a center. It's not like we're tearing it up and have anything to lose. And give him back Byron on his wing. They played well last year together and were doing so again this year.

Byron Galchenyuk Drouin

and my other lines would be:

Pacioretty Danault Gallagher
Carr Hudon Lehkonen
Scherbak Plekanec Shaw

 

[WinterLion]

He is just not that good. Seriously... just let him be what he is.

 

[Tyson]

Bergevin and his minions destroy another young player. Nicely done

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is also known as a "tank" or "rebuild" in some circles. I think you've really stumbled upon a great idea that everyone else can get behind. Nice job.

Tanking in one season and taking a step back or two is not a rebuild in my books. A rebuild to me is selling all assets because any assets you have today are not part of the team you want to win with in the future. With Price, Weber, Drouin, Danault, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Hudon, Mete as part of my core in the future, that is not a rebuild to me.

Don't know how much more clear I have to be for you to understand what I am saying