2017 WCQF Series Topic - Blackhawks vs Predators

[Salvaged Ship]

Offense starts at the back end and comes by virtue of possession. Taking our best possession-driving defensemen out of the roster in favor of a nostalgia tour significantly impacted the team's ability to generate either.

Is it the ONLY problem? No.

The rookies look like rookies in their first NHL playoffs. Which is disappointing after how they carried themselves through the regular season, and how important they've been to the team's success this season, but hardly unprecedented or unfixable.

The coaches inability or lack of interest in hard-matching our most consistent line down the stretch (Hartman-Kruger-Hossa - the only line that continued to play at a high level post-Oduya) against their most potent line on home ice dug us a 0-2 hole.

All of these things are issues.

But Q is open and proud about the fact that his is a defense first system that generates its push from the backend. And in deference to loyalty, he kneecapped the team's ability to do what the system is set-up to do.

Did we score goals at a high rate when Kempny was on the ice? Not sure but didn't seem like it to me. And when it comes to Kempny what makes you think he wouldn't be just like all the other rookies on our roster and be overwhelmed?

I wanted Kempny to play but just not seeing how it would have made any difference in where the series is. He is another rookie just like Schmaltz, Kero, Hartman. And our tested experienced vets stink, they are getting whipped. Was playing Kempny earlier the right decision? Probably, but the way people are talking its like we would be winning this series if he was. Outside of inserting an in his prime Gretzky in our lineup I doubt one player makes much difference. We are getting severely outplayed in all facets.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Amazing the we can't find a Preds Dman who is less than a Potvin, Orr or Coffey and soft dump it in his corner and then make him eat it.

Do they have 6 Norris contenders dressed every night?

You can't hit what you can't catch. They're not all Norris contenders, but they are probably the best top 4 in the NHL and were hyped as such pre-season before an inconsistent start. Down the stretch they were every bit as good as advertised.

Who said hit, I meant hem him in and cough it up.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Scenario 1 - Q plays Oduya again game 4 and keeps Kempny on the bench.

Reaction in here - Friggin idiot Q, even in an elimination game he goes with his patethic old vet Oduya while Kempny rots. This should be it, after this loss he should be fired or kicked upstairs.

Scenario 2 - Oduya is put in the press box and Kempny plays

Reaction in here - Friggin idiot Q, now when we are down 3-0 and facing elimination and at the last minute he sticks Kempny in when he has hardly played and should have been playing the last month. This should be it, after this loss Q should be fired or kicked upstairs.

Conclusion - No matter what this was going to end up a moan regardless of the scenario.

Not sticking up for Q, he has done nothing to help the situation. Should he have played Kempny much sooner? I think so. Do I think we would still be down 3-0 if Kempny played this entire series? Yes. We have 2 goals. Our offense stinks, it wouldn't magically of transformed into victories with Kempny. People are frustrated, they want to point a finger at someone when you need about 20 fingers pointing at almost every player and coach. As well we are playing a team that has executed a game plan perfectly and we have no answers. Almost like what the Bulls are doing to the Celtics. An overrated 1 seed is getting spanked by an underrated 8 seed with a great game plan.

Or he could have realized Oduya isn't very useful anymore and played Kempny down the stretch and into the playoffs. Then nobody but BWC and that one other poster that hates Kempny moans.

 

[JaegerDice]

Did we score goals at a high rate when Kempny was on the ice? Not sure but didn't seem like it to me. And when it comes to Kempny what makes you think he wouldn't be just like all the other rookies on our roster and be overwhelmed?

I wanted Kempny to play but just not seeing how it would have made any difference in where the series is. He is another rookie just like Schmaltz, Kero, Hartman. And our tested experienced vets stink, they are getting whipped. Was playing Kempny earlier the right decision? Probably, but the way people are talking its like we would be winning this series if he was. Outside of inserting an in his prime Gretzky in our lineup I doubt one player makes much difference. We are getting severely outplayed in all facets.

The team generated 1.20 more goals per 60 minutes with Kempny on the ice than they did with Oduya on the ice.

More telling, as far as driving play and creating chances, is that Kempny has the highest xGF/60 of any dman on the team at 2.79 xGF/60.

And of course, the biggest deal is just how much better Seabrook - our best offensive Dman - is with Kempny on the ice vs every other partner he had this season, including Keith. It's not close. It's a landslide.

So yes, I feel confident saying that a Kempny who kept playing rather than being baselessly replaced with Oduya, would be doing a great deal more to push possession and offense for the Blackhawks.


He is a rookie, just like Schmaltz and Hartman. And while Hartman seems to be melting down in his first playoffs (maybe it's tougher for players trying to play with an 'edge'? Don't know), Schmaltz has gotten steadily better each game... so long as he's playing with Toews, which makes sense, since Toews is the guy he's spent most TOI with this season. He's most comfortable with him.

If hypothetically, Kempny is playing is 3rd playoff game instead of his 1st tonight, how much more adjusted is he?

How will he play in his first NHL playoff game ever, after not playing in weeks, in a must-win game? No idea. Certainly not as well as he could have.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Or he could have realized Oduya isn't very useful anymore and played Kempny down the stretch and into the playoffs. Then nobody but BWC and that one other poster that hates Kempny moans.

I'm not talking about that, it is strictly the call to play Kempny in game 4 and the reaction. What Q should have done before is not what I am commenting on.

 

[JaegerDice]

Who said hit, I meant hem him in and cough it up.

Sorry, misinterpreted the phrase 'make him eat it' I guess.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

The team generated 1.20 more goals per 60 minutes with Kempny on the ice than they did with Oduya on the ice.

More telling, as far as driving play and creating chances, is that Kempny has the highest xGF/60 of any dman on the team at 2.79 xGF/60.

And of course, the biggest deal is just how much better Seabrook - our best offensive Dman - is with Kempny on the ice vs every other partner he had this season, including Keith. It's not close. It's a landslide.

He is a rookie, just like Schmaltz and Hartman. And while Hartman seems to be melting down in his first playoffs (maybe it's tougher for players trying to play with an 'edge'? Don't know), Schmaltz has gotten steadily better each game... so long as he's playing with Toews, which makes sense, since Toews is the guy he's spent most TOI with this season. He's most comfortable with him.

If hypothetically, Kempny is playing is 3rd playoff game instead of his 1st tonight, how much more adjusted is he?

Do you think we would have won a game with Kempny in? Would he have been the difference between a win and a loss in this series?

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Sorry, misinterpreted the phrase 'make him eat it' I guess.

Yup, study the tendencies of each Dman, see where he goes with the puck when pressured and lead him that way with the pressure points.

Would be nice if we could when a draw when he actually eats it to get a whistle, harder to get that whistle nowadays.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Do you think we would have won a game with Kempny in? Would he have been the difference between a win and a loss in this series?

We couldn't have lost more.

 

[JaegerDice]

Do you think we would have won a game with Kempny in? Would he have been the difference between a win and a loss in this series?

I think a Kempny that was playing down the stretch, confident and in a rhythm in place of Oduya gets at least one victory, yes, simply be virtue of how much better the team's possession and scoring share has been with him on the ice all season.

I think Nashville is making it hard for the Blackhawks to do anything out there, and I think Kempny helps the Blackhawks spend more time in Nashville's end and gives them more opportunity to create chances, even if every single one is a sonofa***** to get.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

We couldn't have lost more.

Yeah I get it and I would have liked to see Kempny play. Its just the attention he is getting in here seems way over the top when you look at the play of the entire team and where we are in the series. Its like he is some kind of savior. I think we are down 3-0 regardless, we are getting controlled.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

I think a Kempny that was playing down the stretch, confident and in a rhythm in place of Oduya gets at least one victory, yes, simply be virtue of how much better the team's possession and scoring share has been with him on the ice all season.

I think Nashville is making it hard for the Blackhawks to do anything out there, and I think Kempny helps the Blackhawks spend more time in Nashville's end and gives them more opportunity to create chances, even if every single one is a sonofa***** to get.

We disagree. Those numbers are nice but there were also several occassions where Kempny made some horrible turnovers. He likely would have been overwhelmed and pooped the bed just like almost every other Hawks player has. I would have liked to see him get the chance but do not agree this rookie is a difference maker in this series in wins and losses. Our top guys have to control the game or we lose, and they have been dominated.

 

[JaegerDice]

We disagree. Those numbers are nice but there were also several occassions where Kempny made some horrible turnovers. He likely would have been overwhelmed and pooped the bed just like almost every other Hawks player has. I would have liked to see him get the chance but do not agree this rookie is a difference maker in this series in wins and losses. Our top guys have to control the game or we lose, and they have been dominated.

OK.

Personally I don't think Kempny turns the puck over more frequently or egregiously than other dmen on the team.

And I think that even when you factor in the scoring chances given up as a result of those turnovers, the team generates so many more chances for with him on the ice than the opposition does against, that he's still a sum positive for the team's chance generation.

 

[JaegerDice]

Oh, and for the record, I think Hammer is carrying something.

He's taken more skates off and been more rested for more games down the stretch this season than the rest of his regular seasons combined. And it all started happening after he took a huge hit in a game in the 2nd half. Can't remember which one for the life of me though.

He's still playing fine, but he's rushing plays under pressure like he'd rather not get hit... which usually isn't a problem for him.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Did we score goals at a high rate when Kempny was on the ice? Not sure but didn't seem like it to me. And when it comes to Kempny what makes you think he wouldn't be just like all the other rookies on our roster and be overwhelmed?

I wanted Kempny to play but just not seeing how it would have made any difference in where the series is. He is another rookie just like Schmaltz, Kero, Hartman. And our tested experienced vets stink, they are getting whipped. Was playing Kempny earlier the right decision? Probably, but the way people are talking its like we would be winning this series if he was. Outside of inserting an in his prime Gretzky in our lineup I doubt one player makes much difference. We are getting severely outplayed in all facets.

Didnt he play pretty well on team europe at wcoh? So he has some exp in best on best

 

[JaegerDice]

Didnt he play pretty well on team europe at wcoh? So he has some exp in best on best

He played alright. He was on the top pair for CZE though, facing top competition.

We don't need him to be that. We need him to create possession and drive from the back end as Keith and Hammer take on the tough competition.


When the Blackhawks were at their best, the 27-4 pair took on the toughest competition, allowing Keith and Seabrook to push possession against weaker competition.

Keith basically inherited Oduya's old job when Oduya left. And 2017 Oduya is not up to the task, at all. But facing tougher competition limits Keith's ability to push play from the back end.

So what we need is not a replacement for what Oduya used to do on the 2nd pair, so much as a replacement for what Keith used to do on the 1st pair... just now, it's going to be done by the 2nd pair.

Seabrook-Kempny as a pair was the best replacement for that. They pushed possession a great deal against the weaker competition left behind by the Keith and Hammer pair.

 

[Bubba88]

Oh please. Sounds suspiciously like you're making an excuse for Hawks' wetting the bed in the first round (again). From what I've seen, every team in the PO's is playing pretty well except Hawks.

Excuse? For what? I said more than enough we are playing bad and almost nobody Shows up except for Krüger/Panik.
Saying they are bad and about every other PO Team would beat them is just wrong and that's what I responded to. They are playing great, they are better so far and with the way they are playing they can go deep this year.
If we'd Show up, we'd be the best Team in the West. We don't Show up and are down 0-3

You can't hit what you can't catch. They're not all Norris contenders, but they are probably the best top 4 in the NHL and were hyped as such pre-season before an inconsistent start. Down the stretch they were every bit as good as advertised.

yep. Preds have the best Top4 in the NHL.

 

[DontToewzMeBro]

Panarin-Toews-Anisimov
Hino-Schmaltz-Kane
PaniK-Kruger-Hossa

 

[JaegerDice]

Panarin-Toews-Anisimov
Hino-Schmaltz-Kane
PaniK-Kruger-Hossa

You make this lineup by throwing darts?

That second line would get destroyed.

 

[ChewiesArmy]

I haven't been able to watch closely this year, but has Q tried Panik-Toews-Hossa much for the 1st line? Every game I have seen, Hossa has been 3rd line.

 

[JaegerDice]

I haven't been able to watch closely this year, but has Q tried Panik-Toews-Hossa much for the 1st line? Every game I have seen, Hossa has been 3rd line.

They tried it at various points over the last season+ that Panik has been around. I think Q feels Panik performs better on the right wing, and Hossa can't play LW. So it's not a fit.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Panarin-Toews-Anisimov
Hino-Schmaltz-Kane
PaniK-Kruger-Hossa

That 2nd line would NEVER touch the puck. And that 1st line would have no chemistry as Panarin and Toews have rarely played together, and Anisimov hasn't played with Toews. And two centers on the 1st line? I just don't get it.

What was working through the Hawks good run in the regular season... is what should be iced.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I haven't been able to watch closely this year, but has Q tried Panik-Toews-Hossa much for the 1st line? Every game I have seen, Hossa has been 3rd line.

Hossa started the game with Toews on the top line in game 3. I think it lasted 1 shift, and then the Q blender started.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I can't even be heartbroken about this.
They just didn't have it.

On to next year!

 

[hawksfan50]

Again. .had Q had the balls to bag-skate his slackers fat' cats after the Florida Fiasco game ,the coasting virus that infected the team never would have persisted.

They had the "it" of excellence in February ..but Q with his tolerating slacking off down the home stretch cost them to loose their edge and the bad habits kept coming g till they completely lost their former "it"...so in the end they had NADA..

Q let them coadt home ..that really cost them..they list Team purpose and focus ..they lost any intensity and desire to compete hard to win. .They list "it"...The Coach has tp take primary blame for this ..You can never tolerate sloppy habits and slacker playy ..it comes back to bite you when you require excellence again..This time. ..they could not flip the switch.