2017 WCQF Series Topic - Blackhawks vs Predators

[JaegerDice]

Every series is physical. Open your eyes. Q's stick check defensive system is pathetic.

Hawks lost virtually every board battle.

They lost every board battle because the Preds speed allowed them to aggressively out-man them without fear of being caught.

Same deal with the 2013 Blackhawks. Outside of Bickell and Seabrook, they weren't a big team. What they did is out-man and out-support you at the puck all over the ice, and then if you were lucky enough to get the puck anyway, they'd be back in position or in your passing lane before you could even pick out a teammate to pass to.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Every series is physical. Open your eyes. Q's stick check defensive system is pathetic.

Hawks lost virtually every board battle.

The Preds aren't some team full of hulking monsters. The Hawks lost because they played like trash. Eyes open, thanks.

 

[BobbyJet]

The Preds aren't some team full of hulking monsters. The Hawks lost because they played like trash. Eyes open, thanks.

And how would you rate they're play on the boards?

 

[TLEH]

They lost board battles because they got beat to the puck and lost positioning, not because they got outmuscled.

 

[BobbyJet]

They lost board battles because they got beat to the puck and lost positioning, not because they got outmuscled.

It's simple physics and character helps.

 

[JaegerDice]

It's simple physics and character helps.

All the character in the world won't improve your wheels.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

And how would you rate they're play on the boards?

Everything was bad. Complaining about any one thing and pointing to it as to why we lost is crazy to me. I've said it before, but you can't overreact to things in a series where everything was worse than it usually is.

I'm fine with adding talented size. It's not the sole reason we lost by any stretch.

 

[CallMeShaft]

We lost due to speed. Nashville was faster at getting to pucks along the boards and they were fast enough to jump into the play and still have enough men back to defend whenever the Hawks gained possession. We needed a lot more speed to win this series.

Preds fan here, but I like the Blackhawks. I used to laugh when they were cursed by old man Wirtz, but I really appreciated how they rose out of the ashes when they got out from under him.

Difference in the series was about 6 young Preds guys who all hit their stride this year, or late this year. Jarnkrok, Arvidsson, Watson, Fiala, Ellis, Harry Z, plus Forsberg who was already on the upswing.

Hawks didn't seem to have even one of these guys. You all know the guys from watching them all year, but I didn't recognize any of your young guys names at all.

I don't follow the Leafs, but I know of Matthews, Kadri, Nylander. Bozak, and others, just from the highlights and boxscores. Same with a lot of other teams.

I honestly didn't recognize anybody outside your old, core guys except for Panarin. And the old core guys seemed tired and annoyed.

Guys like Matthews and Nylander are cream of the crop rookies (and they were among an elite tear of prospects).

Hawks don't have that. We already have our elite guys in Kane, Keith, and Toews (provided he can fix whatever has been ailing him).


But Hawks have a lot of really good young guys. Schmaltz is projected to be a Spezza like player (fast, pass first, right shot), Hartman is a more talented Shaw (though he currently lacks the will to stand in the front of the net as much as Shaw did). Hinostroza is the fastest player we have in the organization. Kempny has played like a legit #4 defensemen but Q's love of old players reared it's ugly head when Kempny sat for Oduya.

And the Hawks have a big physical power forward in John Hayden. He's quickly gained fans here with his offense and physical prowess (I remember that he had the second most hits in the entire league during his first week or two in the league). He didn't play much this series because he was so inexperienced (he only joined the Hawks this year after his season at Yale finished).

And that's the problem with most of our rookies. They lack any sort of playoff experience, and they had to learn how to play under much harder competition in this series (Hartman and Schmaltz actually looked good in game 4, but too little too late). We'll just have to wait til next year for them to make a difference in the post season.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'm going to be having visions of a Darling sign-and-trade plus pick to WIN for Trouba for weeks. Until somebody else inevitably picks him up. Probably the Pens with our luck.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

An ufa sign and trade is pretty damn unprecedented.

 

[BobbyJet]

We lost due to speed. Nashville was faster at getting to pucks along the boards and they were fast enough to jump into the play and still have enough men back to defend whenever the Hawks gained possession. We needed a lot more speed to win this series.



Guys like Matthews and Nylander are cream of the crop rookies (and they were among an elite tear of prospects).

Hawks don't have that. We already have our elite guys in Kane, Keith, and Toews (provided he can fix whatever has been ailing him).


But Hawks have a lot of really good young guys. Schmaltz is projected to be a Spezza like player (fast, pass first, right shot), Hartman is a more talented Shaw (though he currently lacks the will to stand in the front of the net as much as Shaw did). Hinostroza is the fastest player we have in the organization. Kempny has played like a legit #4 defensemen but Q's love of old players reared it's ugly head when Kempny sat for Oduya.

And the Hawks have a big physical power forward in John Hayden. He's quickly gained fans here with his offense and physical prowess (I remember that he had the second most hits in the entire league during his first week or two in the league). He didn't play much this series because he was so inexperienced (he only joined the Hawks this year after his season at Yale finished).

And that's the problem with most of our rookies. They lack any sort of playoff experience, and they had to learn how to play under much harder competition in this series (Hartman and Schmaltz actually looked good in game 4, but too little too late). We'll just have to wait til next year for them to make a difference in the post season.

Agreed. Now if we could just rid ourselves of the "Q systems"

 

[JaegerDice]

An ufa sign and trade is pretty damn unprecedented.

Yep. And totally unlikely.

Hence why it will be occuring solely in my head.

But it's a nice thought.


In more realistic terms, Panarin's no-move doesn't hit til July 1st. I'm comfortable moving him as part of a package for either Trouba in WIN or Hanafin in CAR.

 

[TLEH]

Panarin two years from UFA. Prob would have gotten more just trading his RFA rights. Two year deal to UFA hurt his value

 

[JaegerDice]

Panarin two years from UFA. Prob would have gotten more just trading his RFA rights. Two year deal to UFA hurt his value

For Hanafin, I agree. For Trouba, there's enough smoke between him and the Winnipeg organization, that they might just want him gone and be willing to take less to do it.

There's also Anaheim, overflowing with D prospects.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Moving Trouba for a guy like Panarin doesn't make much sense for Winnipeg.

 

[JaegerDice]

Moving Trouba for a guy like Panarin doesn't make much sense for Winnipeg.

Stop killing my dreams.

 

[Elephant Igloo]

Grit and size didn't beat the Blackhawks. It never has in the Toews/Kane era, and certainly didn't this year.

Speed was the issue. Nashville had more of it all over the ice. The Preds can trap, or they can forecheck, they can collapse, but whatever they do they can transition in and out of it so much faster than the Hawks. When the Hawks simply mishandle a pass, or take an extra beat to get it under control, there’s a Pred there, pressuring a turnover or cutting off options. When they do manage to get it deep, the mobile Preds defense is there before them, or right on top of them before they can move it again. When the Hawks think they have a passing lane, it’s filled faster than they can compute.

Speed, Speed, Speed. Speed on offense, speed on defense, speed on transition. The Predators beat the Blackhawks by playing Blackhawks hockey better than the Blackhawks.

Byfulien and Bickell contributed far more by scoring goals than they did with hits or toughness. Bollig contributed nothing. Like Tootoo contributed nothing.

Reacting to this loss by pursuing size, grit and toughness would work roughly as well for the Blackhawks going forward as it did for the Canucks after 2011.

Do you ever reply to people without strings of lol emoticons?

 

[BobbyJet]

I can easily see Hayden becoming his own version of a Jonny Toews. I liked his debut in Chicago and I think Hawks have found themselves a character player with the physical attributes to thrive.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Hayden? Toews? I don't even think he's a center at this level.

 

[BobbyJet]

Hayden? Toews? I don't even think he's a center at this level.

I said "his own version of a Jonny Toews". I see him as a leader first with a nose for the net.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I see him as having more Ladd upside, but I'd love for you to be right.

 

[JaegerDice]

Do you ever reply to people without strings of lol emoticons?

Sure, if I don't find the post I'm replying to very funny.

 

[Pez68]

It's simple physics and character helps.

Physics and character? I don't recall those two things ever being mentioned when we worked on board battles back in the day... You know what was mentioned every time though?

Positioning, stick technique, angles, center of gravity, edgework. And probably the most important part of winning board battles? FIRE AND ENERGY. You have to WANT the puck more than the other guy.

Size had pretty much nothing to do with why the Hawks were dominated on the boards in this series. It was last, behind pretty much everything mentioned above. Or did you not notice Seabrook getting absolutely dominated on the boards by guys like Arvidsson, Fiala, and Jarnkrok?

 

[BobbyJet]

Physics and character? I don't recall those two things ever being mentioned when we worked on board battles back in the day... You know what was mentioned every time though?

Positioning, stick technique, angles, center of gravity, edgework. And probably the most important part of winning board battles? FIRE AND ENERGY. You have to WANT the puck more than the other guy.

Size had pretty much nothing to do with why the Hawks were dominated on the boards in this series. It was last, behind pretty much everything mentioned above. Or did you not notice Seabrook getting absolutely dominated on the boards by guys like Arvidsson, Fiala, and Jarnkrok?

The point is skill with size trumps skill without size. That's why scouting reports always include vital stats and whether said player plays larger or smaller than their frame (if it's applicable).

 

[Pez68]

The point is skill with size trumps skill without size. That's why scouting reports always include vital stats and whether said player plays larger or smaller than their frame (if it's applicable).

Skill with size only trumps skill without size if those players are outworking you... Quick feet, balance, and quick hands also go a really, really long way in winning board battles. Again, energy. Nashville won those board battles because of their energy and compete level. Nothing more.