Zadina probably starting out in GR

[Invictus12]

Sorry if I was rude, I'd be happy to elaborate further.

Skating: His footwork is excellent but the speed isn't there. As a whole I'd say he's an average skater. Not much more I can say about that.

Decision-making: I'm talking specifically in the offensive zone here. He is certainly a gifted offensive player. His shot is enormous, his hands are soft as baby poo, and he knows how to position himself to score. But his decision making when the puck is on his stick I would say is underdeveloped. He often holds on to the puck much longer than he should, and then when he does decide to pass his pass choice is often frustrating IMO.

Defense: I was led to believe prior to the draft that his defense was solid and he could immediately join an NHL team playing a competent two-way game. Well IMHO that was 100% BS. His defense is definitely lacking.

In all I think he's future an NHL player... but I think we drafted another Mantha, not another Larkin... which is somewhat disappointing for a #6 overall pick



"I will go with the scouts on this"

Why do you come here for opinion then? If you trust the scouts fully, amateurs on an internet board should be irrelevant to you.

"I don't have that much time for Red Wings games so I sure won't be going out of the way to catch GR games"

I do have time for this. Wings and Griffins as much as I can. If you don't like my opinion, fair enough, move along.



My opinion can basically be boiled down to: Zadina is the next Hudler/Filppula/Nyquist/Tatar

No it's not the opinion that I have issue with, it's you stating your OPINION as a fact that's more bothersome. And again, if you recognize something as an opinion, that's one thing. Pretending to be the crystal ball is a whole other. That's on top of the whole premise that Zedina was over-hyped by the media. No, he's a talented kid. Whether he'll be able to expand on that talent remains to be seen and no matter how much you watch Zadina, fact is, it's way, way, waaay too early to make a prognosis on the guy. If you can't recognize that and want to keep pretending you know the future before it happens, I suggest you clear your bank account and play the lotto with it...

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

You made a lot of assumptions about who he was as a player and he isn't what you expected. Now he's just another Red Wings cast-off.

What assumptions did I make?

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

No it's not the opinion that I have issue with, it's you stating your OPINION as a fact that's more bothersome. And again, if you recognize something as an opinion, that's one thing. Pretending to be the crystal ball is a whole other. That's on top of the whole premise that Zedina was over-hyped by the media. No, he's a talented kid. Whether he'll be able to expand on that talent remains to be seen and no matter how much you watch Zadina, fact is, it's way, way, waaay too early to make a prognosis on the guy. If you can't recognize that and want to keep pretending you know the future before it happens, I suggest you clear your bank account and play the lotto with it...

I haven't stated my opinion as fact. I've stated my opinion. I see that upsets you. Get over it.

I haven't claimed he was over-hyped. I thought he was a very exciting player in his draft year and worthy of the hype. I'm saying I don't think he's going to develop into a cornerstone player, which is disappointing considering he was drafted so high.

Yup, it's definitely real early to being drawing conclusions about this kid. When am I allowed to have an opinion on him?

 

[Ezekial]

What assumptions did I make?

That his defense and skating were better than they were.
No one thinks he's a great defender, they said they hope he could develop into one.

He has plenty of time, years even, to prove he is a great player. To coin him as Hudler (good NHLer btw) already is just as bad as acting like he is a godsend.

 

[Frk It]

Sorry if I was rude, I'd be happy to elaborate further.

Skating: His footwork is excellent but the speed isn't there. As a whole I'd say he's an average skater. Not much more I can say about that.

Decision-making: I'm talking specifically in the offensive zone here. He is certainly a gifted offensive player. His shot is enormous, his hands are soft as baby poo, and he knows how to position himself to score. But his decision making when the puck is on his stick I would say is underdeveloped. He often holds on to the puck much longer than he should, and then when he does decide to pass his pass choice is often frustrating IMO.

Defense: I was led to believe prior to the draft that his defense was solid and he could immediately join an NHL team playing a competent two-way game. Well IMHO that was 100% BS. His defense is definitely lacking.

In all I think he's future an NHL player... but I think we drafted another Mantha, not another Larkin... which is somewhat disappointing for a #6 overall pick



"I will go with the scouts on this"

Why do you come here for opinion then? If you trust the scouts fully, amateurs on an internet board should be irrelevant to you.

"I don't have that much time for Red Wings games so I sure won't be going out of the way to catch GR games"

I do have time for this. Wings and Griffins as much as I can. If you don't like my opinion, fair enough, move along.



My opinion can basically be boiled down to: Zadina is the next Hudler/Filppula/Nyquist/Tatar

Again, if guys like Hudler and Tatar were the same exact players but 6’0” and 200 lbs they would have been way more effective.

Nyquist maxed out at 185 lbs and was never able to get harder on the puck.

I don’t think Zadina will have those issues, so those comparables feel a little lazy to me. He has things to work on, but I’m not worried about him being those guys.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

That his defense and skating were better than they were.
No one thinks he's a great defender, they said they hope he could develop into one.

He has plenty of time, years even, to prove he is a great player. To coin him as Hudler (good NHLer btw) already is just as bad as acting like he is a godsend.

Where did I assume this?

His skating has always been average. Most scouting reports stated this. After watching him play a bit, I agree. What exactly did I assume?

Perhaps I assumed on his defense. The narrative all summer and before the draft was this kid was capable of making an NHL club. Defense was not his strong suit, but also not an issue. I'm saying I think it is an issue. I think his defense is bad at the AHL level no less.

I think you're just fishing for ways to shoot down my opinion. What's your opinion on the kid? Have you watched him play?

Again, if guys like Hudler and Tatar were the same exact players but 6’0” and 200 lbs they would have been way more effective.

Nyquist maxed out at 185 lbs and was never able to get harder on the puck.

I don’t think Zadina will have those issues, so those comparables feel a little lazy to me. He has things to work on, but I’m not worried about him being those guys.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think adding a few pounds or inches drastically changes the outcome of Hudler or Tatars career.

 

[Ezekial]

I think you're just fishing for ways to shoot down my opinion. What's your opinion on the kid? Have you watched him play?

Yes, I've watched 5 AHL games this year (including the first 2 of the season and 2 of their last 3). I think he's going to be a good player, he's already taken strides from the first time I've watched him in regards to positioning and better using his skill set when he can. I think he's playing like a young kid that's never played professional hockey and is trying to find the best way to adapt his skills.

I think you're the one wanting to define things that aren't there. Label a player as a slight when they really aren't all that comparable in terms of skill set.

And yea I want your opinion to fall as flat on it's face as possible. Obviously.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Yes, I've watched 5 AHL games this year (including the first 2 of the season and 2 of their last 3). I think he's going to be a good player, he's already taken strides from the first time I've watched him in regards to positioning and better using his skill set when he can. I think he's playing like a young kid that's never played professional hockey and is trying to find the best way to adapt his skills.

I think you're the one wanting to define things that aren't there. Label a player as a slight when they really aren't all that comparable in terms of skill set.

And yea I want your opinion to fall as flat on it's face as possible. Obviously.

Obviously I'd be thrilled to have my opinion be wrong.

So your hot take is: "he gonna be good" "his positioning is getting better" "he needs to adapt"

Some real critical analysis there. Lemme know when you have something insightful to contribute about his play. Would love to discuss it with you.

 

[Ezekial]

Obviously I'd be thrilled to have my opinion be wrong.

So your hot take is: "he gonna be good" "his positioning is getting better" "he needs to adapt"

Some real critical analysis there. Lemme know when you have something insightful to contribute about his play. Would love to discuss it with you.

I didn't make a hot take.
I said I've noticed the improvement.

I'm gonna go ahead and leave you be, your arguments aren't very compelling either: His decision making is bad, he makes bad decisions.

I'm less willing to define a 19 year old as a finished project than you.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

I didn't make a hot take.
I said I've noticed the improvement.

I'm gonna go ahead and leave you be, your arguments aren't very compelling either: His decision making is bad, he makes bad decisions.

I'm less willing to define a 19 year old as a finished project than you.

Never claimed he was a finished product. Just keep putting words in my mouth.

I elaborated quite a bit on my opinions about his play. I even posted specifically about what bad decisions he makes and in what situations he makes them. But by all means play dumb and pretend I didn't.

I think you have a very shallow opinion of him as a player and nothing of substance to contribute, you just wanna stifle someone with a more critical opinion because it doesn't fit into your fantasy dream world where Zadina is the new Kucherov.

So long

 

[Invictus12]

I haven't stated my opinion as fact. I've stated my opinion. I see that upsets you. Get over it.

I haven't claimed he was over-hyped. I thought he was a very exciting player in his draft year and worthy of the hype. I'm saying I don't think he's going to develop into a cornerstone player, which is disappointing considering he was drafted so high.

Yup, it's definitely real early to being drawing conclusions about this kid. When am I allowed to have an opinion on him?

Lol, Do you seriously want me to go back and quote you word for word? You won't come off looking well there...

 

[Ezekial]

Never claimed he was a finished product. Just keep putting words in my mouth.

I elaborated quite a bit on my opinions about his play. I even posted specifically about what bad decisions he makes and in what situations he makes them. But by all means play dumb and pretend I didn't.

I think you have a very shallow opinion of him as a player and nothing of substance to contribute, you just wanna stifle someone with a more critical opinion because it doesn't fit into your fantasy dream world where Zadina is the new Kucherov.

So long

Yea I don't think Zadina the new Kuch, man you are extremely hypocritical. What was that about words in mouths?
You literally defined him as Hudler 2.0

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Lol, Do you seriously want me to go back and quote you word for word? You won't come off looking well there...

Wait, please, don't, stop...

Yea I don't think Zadina the new Kuch, man you are extremely hypocritical. What was that about words in mouths?
You literally defined him as Hudler 2.0

Ah so you don't like it much when someone puts words in your mouth eh? Interesting

Yeah I think Hudler is very comparable player. Huds was an average skater. Zadina is an average skater. Huds had a mean shot. Zadina has a mean shot. Huds was below average defensively. Zadina is below average defensively. Huds never really drove play, but profited off of playing with great playmakers. I'm seeing the same in Zadina.

Lets not forget Hudler breached 75 pts when playing with Calgary's top line. I think Zadina could do that and more.

 

[Ezekial]

Ah so you don't like it much when someone puts words in your mouth eh? Interesting

Yeah I think Hudler is very comparable player. Huds was an average skater. Zadina is an average skater. Huds had a mean shot. Zadina has a mean shot. Huds was below average defensively. Zadina is below average defensively. Huds never really drove play, but profited off of playing with great playmakers. I'm seeing the same in Zadina.

Lets not forget Hudler breached 75 pts when playing with Calgary's top line. I think Zadina could do that and more.

Don't act like you were calling him a possible 76 point player when you were comparing him to a bunch of consistent 40-50 point guys.

Anyway, I didn't put any words in your mouth, you defined who he's going to be as a player, and you continue to do so. I'm not sitting here saying "Oh well based on the 5 games I've watched I've noticed X improvements in a short span so he's going to be a ppg+ nhl player."
No I didn't do that. I answered your questions about whether or not I watch him and why I think he will get better.
You said "I've watched games, I've noticed these 3 negatives about his game, and he's going to be a Jiri Hudler, Tomas Tatar, Nyquist, Filppula type"
Which is why I posted

You made a lot of assumptions about who he was as a player and he isn't what you expected. Now he's just another Red Wings cast-off.

Because you were very much defining who he will be as a finished product.

I haven't argued your assessment of his skill set, if you were under the impression he was a great skater and great defender, you were not informed correctly. If those things stick out, they should, it's on the scouting report right now.
What I have a problem with is the constraints you've put on him.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Wait, please, don't, stop...



Ah so you don't like it much when someone puts words in your mouth eh? Interesting

Yeah I think Hudler is very comparable player. Huds was an average skater. Zadina is an average skater. Huds had a mean shot. Zadina has a mean shot. Huds was below average defensively. Zadina is below average defensively. Huds never really drove play, but profited off of playing with great playmakers. I'm seeing the same in Zadina.

Lets not forget Hudler breached 75 pts when playing with Calgary's top line. I think Zadina could do that and more.

Hudler and Datsyuk's production was so much better when they played together than without each other. Unfortunately Babcock rarely played them together.

 

[Frk It]

Wait, please, don't, stop...



Ah so you don't like it much when someone puts words in your mouth eh? Interesting

Yeah I think Hudler is very comparable player. Huds was an average skater. Zadina is an average skater. Huds had a mean shot. Zadina has a mean shot. Huds was below average defensively. Zadina is below average defensively. Huds never really drove play, but profited off of playing with great playmakers. I'm seeing the same in Zadina.

Lets not forget Hudler breached 75 pts when playing with Calgary's top line. I think Zadina could do that and more.

It would help if you compared them to those guys when they were the same age (18 or 19).

I think across the board he’s miles ahead of where they were, which is why he was drafted considerably higher.

The most notable difference is their shot. Zadina has a much more deadly and developed shot than any of those 3 had at his age. He probably generates more power on his shot than those guys do even now (definitely Nyquist and Hudler).

Berggren is someone more comparable to Nyquist or Tatar, IMO. Comparing Zadina to them feels like just jamming a square peg into a round hole.

 

[JoesuffP]

Dude just comes from a dead message board LGW that died mainly because members just say things to fill out their day with back to back conversation (arguing)

In other words a troll/shit poster. Opinion is not to be taken seriously. Dead giveaway is when they say ‘Hey that’s just my opinion’ after they make ridiculous claims that make no sense

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Don't act like you were calling him a possible 76 point player when you were comparing him to a bunch of consistent 40-50 point guys.

Anyway, I didn't put any words in your mouth, you defined who he's going to be as a player, and you continue to do so. I'm not sitting here saying "Oh well based on the 5 games I've watched I've noticed X improvements in a short span so he's going to be a ppg+ nhl player."
No I didn't do that. I answered your questions about whether or not I watch him and why I think he will get better.
You said "I've watched games, I've noticed these 3 negatives about his game, and he's going to be a Jiri Hudler, Tomas Tatar, Nyquist, Filppula type"
Which is why I posted

Because you were very much defining who he will be as a finished product.

I haven't argued your assessment of his skill set, if you were under the impression he was a great skater and great defender, you were not informed correctly. If those things stick out, they should, it's on the scouting report right now.
What I have a problem with is the constraints you've put on him.

Hudler wasn't a 76 point player... that was just one season for him. He was more like 40 - 50 pt guy himself, but managed to breach 70 pts when paired with the right players. IMO I think that's the kinda player Zadina is and will be. You can call it too soon to judge... and all I'll ask is when I am I allowed to judge? When's he's 20? 25? 30?

It would help if you compared them to those guys when they were the same age (18 or 19).

I think across the board he’s miles ahead of where they were, which is why he was drafted considerably higher.

The most notable difference is their shot. Zadina has a much more deadly and developed shot than any of those 3 had at his age. He probably generates more power on his shot than those guys do even now (definitely Nyquist and Hudler).

Berggren is someone more comparable to Nyquist or Tatar, IMO. Comparing Zadina to them feels like just jamming a square peg into a round hole.

I agree about Zadina's shot... my concern with him is more his playmaking ability. I realize no player is ever gonna be the total package, outside some of the greatest of all time, but with a #6 pick you're kinda hoping to get at least close to a total package. With that said, I'm little concerned about his playmaking/decision-making. I'd obviously much prefer it if he wasn't just a trigger man.

Dude just comes from a dead message board LGW that died mainly because members just say things to fill out their day with back to back conversation (arguing)

In other words a troll/**** poster. Opinion is not to be taken seriously. Dead giveaway is when they say ‘Hey that’s just my opinion’ after they make ridiculous claims that make no sense

Hi Joe, good to see ya

 

[JoesuffP]

Hudler wasn't a 76 point player... that was just one season for him. He was more like 40 - 50 pt guy himself, but managed to breach 70 pts when paired with the right players. IMO I think that's the kinda player Zadina is and will be. You can call it too soon to judge... and all I'll ask is when I am I allowed to judge? When's he's 20? 25? 30?



I agree about Zadina's shot... my concern with him is more his playmaking ability. I realize no player is ever gonna be the total package, outside some of the greatest of all time, but with a #6 pick you're kinda hoping to get at least close to a total package. With that said, I'm little concerned about his playmaking/decision-making. I'd obviously much prefer it if he wasn't just a trigger man.



Hi Joe, good to see ya

Good job with your jimmy rustling I’m sure you’re notifications are feasting

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Good job with your jimmy rustling I’m sure you’re notifications are feasting

I just really hate Zadina

 

[JoesuffP]

I just really hate Zadina

Nobody that cared about their credibility would ever project a players career trajectory based off his first 20 pro games. Still by far the most skilled player in the system. That’s reason enough to be excited. Him struggling in his first year pro could be the best thing for him actually

 

[BinCookin]

I agree about Zadina's shot... my concern with him is more his playmaking ability. I realize no player is ever gonna be the total package, outside some of the greatest of all time, but with a #6 pick you're kinda hoping to get at least close to a total package. With that said, I'm little concerned about his playmaking/decision-making. I'd obviously much prefer it if he wasn't just a trigger man.

I really dont like comparing players that do not really compare.

Nyquist is more of a playmaking winger.
Mantha is more of a shooting winger.
Zadina is probably a better shooter than Mantha. So there is obvious upside there.

Zadina also specializes on the wrist shot, which is good, meaning he is not like a Frk or Pulkinnen, where their one tool is often inaccurate and takes too long to utilize.

From my watching of Zadina, he seemed to leave himself exposed to big hits... He will have to work on that.
If you say his decision making is questionable.. is it possible that can improve with a little more experience in higher levels of hockey? Hockey IQ seems like a hard thing to judge sometimes. So I read your points, and take them in, just think he could improve there at least a little.

As for Speed, as much as the new NHL is about speed. Its a lot more about positioning, especially for the trigger man... find the soft area, get there, let Veleno and Larkin use the afterburners to adjust everyones position, and then find Zadina open for a shot. Even if he is a specialized player, I still think that shot is going to lead to a lot of production. But if his hockey IQ is off, and he cant find the right positions to be in, than he will be a much poorer player than people think.

Thank you for your view point. And I look forward to others. But hey everyone, lets have a more reasonable set of discussions here, im tired of watching people fight on the board over what is usually purely posturing and misconstruing of points. (This last bit is for everyone getting upset) LOL

 

[BinCookin]

Nobody that cared about their credibility would ever project a players career trajectory based off his first 20 pro games. Still by far the most skilled player in the system. That’s reason enough to be excited. Him struggling in his first year pro could be the best thing for him actually

Him struggling is likely good. Have him get the motivation to learn. I like the kid's confidence out of the draft, so i think he can handle a little adversity, it will help humble him, and drive any improvements in his game.

 

[Reddwit]

10 pts in 16 games and -8 in the AHL... for a player who was drafted #6 overall, was once touted as the #1 overall, and was expected to be able to join the team right away.

IDK if you watch AHL games or not, but he's not that good. Maybe Jiri Hudler 2.0... but certainly not elite quality.

His skating = average. His decision making = questionable. Defensive game = vastly overrated considering the scout reports prior to the draft.

Kid is 2nd tier talent, not 1st. That's why he's a complimentary AHL player right now.

LOL, that puts Zadina 9th all time (25 years) in p/pg among 18 year olds who played 10+ games in the AHL.

 

[Gniwder]

LOL, that puts Zadina 9th all time (25 years) in p/pg among 18 year olds who played 10+ games in the AHL.

What you didn't mention is that there's only been 31 AHL players who played 10 or more games while 18, and 9 of them were defensemen. Due to the NHL/CHL agreement, the only ones eligible to play in the AHL at that age are Euros, and most of them play in Europe/Russia after the draft.

His stats are much closer to Alexander Nylander than it is to William Nylander. I'm not concerned yet, but I'm not impressed either.