Zadina probably starting out in GR

[Ezekial]

What you didn't mention is that there's only been 31 AHL players who played 10 or more games while 18, and 9 of them were defensemen. Due to the NHL/CHL agreement, the only ones eligible to play in the AHL at that age are Euros, and most of them play in Europe/Russia after the draft.

His stats are much closer to Alexander Nylander than it is to William Nylander. I'm not concerned yet, but I'm not impressed either.

First 16 Career AHL Games
Alex Nylander - 10 points 4G 6A (he had a 2A 17th game)
Filip Zadina - 10 points 6G 4A
William Nylander - 9 points 3G 6A

Alex TheAHL.com
Billy TheAHL.com
Game logs are right there, William exploded in March.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Is this what we mean by Hudler 2.0?

 

[Frk It]

 

[Christien]

This dude kind of reminds me of RedderWinger

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Nobody that cared about their credibility would ever project a players career trajectory based off his first 20 pro games. Still by far the most skilled player in the system. That’s reason enough to be excited. Him struggling in his first year pro could be the best thing for him actually

While I agree that struggling in his first year is probably good for him, I disagree that he is our most skilled player. I don't think he can hold a candle to D-Boss. Which is kinda my point.

If you meant only prospects, then fair enough, ignore me.

I really dont like comparing players that do not really compare.

Nyquist is more of a playmaking winger.
Mantha is more of a shooting winger.
Zadina is probably a better shooter than Mantha. So there is obvious upside there.

Zadina also specializes on the wrist shot, which is good, meaning he is not like a Frk or Pulkinnen, where their one tool is often inaccurate and takes too long to utilize.

From my watching of Zadina, he seemed to leave himself exposed to big hits... He will have to work on that.
If you say his decision making is questionable.. is it possible that can improve with a little more experience in higher levels of hockey? Hockey IQ seems like a hard thing to judge sometimes. So I read your points, and take them in, just think he could improve there at least a little.

As for Speed, as much as the new NHL is about speed. Its a lot more about positioning, especially for the trigger man... find the soft area, get there, let Veleno and Larkin use the afterburners to adjust everyones position, and then find Zadina open for a shot. Even if he is a specialized player, I still think that shot is going to lead to a lot of production. But if his hockey IQ is off, and he cant find the right positions to be in, than he will be a much poorer player than people think.

Thank you for your view point. And I look forward to others. But hey everyone, lets have a more reasonable set of discussions here, im tired of watching people fight on the board over what is usually purely posturing and misconstruing of points. (This last bit is for everyone getting upset) LOL

First off, really appreciate your candor and constructive response, unlike some others around here...

I understand your point about comparing players, so lets narrow down a comparison maybe? Personally I think Hudler is the closest and best comparison. Zadina is sort of a bigger Hudler with hopefully less off ice issues, and thus Hudler+?

When it comes to the big hits you are 100%. I remember him foolishly getting leveled with his head down at least once or twice at training camp I think it was. I have no issue with his positioning. His nose for the net is superb. I reiterate that it is his decision-making that I find worrisome. Maybe not Brendan Smith bad, but I'm noticing it none-the-less, which isn't a good thing. This kid isn't a playmaker or play-driver (per say) in my book. He's going to be reliant on a talented C like Larkin or Veleno to feed him. Which brings me back to Hudler... when you paired him with top guys he scored 60 to 70+ points... when you took that away his play really suffered. I see the same thing in Zadina. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.......

Thanks again. Bummer being chewed out on a new site for simply having an opinion. I can see why some are discouraged from posting here.

LOL, that puts Zadina 9th all time (25 years) in p/pg among 18 year olds who played 10+ games in the AHL.

IMO Zadina should not even be in the AHL. Still surprised the league allowed him to play there, but I'm happy about it.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

This dude kind of reminds me of RedderWinger

Whoever that was, it ain't me. Like Joesuffp said, he knows me from a past forum. I'm a noob around here.

 

[Shaman464]

This dude kind of reminds me of RedderWinger

No, this guy is a shit from LGWs. He stirs the pot everywhere he goes.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

No, this guy is a **** from LGWs. He stirs the pot everywhere he goes.

Sup Shaman. I didn't forget you either. Still cynical to the bone? Cool. We're gonna have fun together.

 

[Shaman464]

Sup Shaman. I didn't forget you either. Still cynical to the bone? Cool. We're gonna have fun together.

If by cynical you mean right about the fact 'rebuild on the fly' was code for 'dumpster fire' sure. Anyway, calm your Jimmies, the community here is less forgiving of shit stirring.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

If by cynical you mean right about the fact 'rebuild on the fly' was code for 'dumpster fire' sure. Anyway, calm your Jimmies, the community here is less forgiving of **** stirring.

Weird flex, but ok

 

[The Zermanator]

Just want to kindly remind everyone that there is a convenient ignore feature on this forum

And just to stay on topic, really excited about Zadina. He's realgud.

 

[SCD]

While I agree that struggling in his first year is probably good for him, I disagree that he is our most skilled player. I don't think he can hold a candle to D-Boss.

Of all Larkin's hockey qualities, he would score lowest in the skill category. His speed, vision, anticipation, and drive make his what we see today.

Zadina has the skill, but it is unclear whether he has the hockey sense to utilize it at the NHL level.

 

[izlez]

LOL, that puts Zadina 9th all time (25 years) in p/pg among 18 year olds who played 10+ games in the AHL.

Looks like 5 points on the season is the benchmark before we can start hyping him up with "HE IS TOP 20 ALL-TIME IN AHL SCORING FOR 18 YEAR OLDS! THIS KID IS A BEAST!!"

This was sarcasm. For the love of god, please stop.


And also, should we go to the Zadina draft pick thread to see all of the bold proclamations of how great the kid will be before he ever played an AHL game? That was ok, but 16 AHL games,training camp, prospects tournament is just WAY TOO SOON??

 

[izlez]

Of all Larkin's hockey qualities, he would score lowest in the skill category. His speed, vision, anticipation, and drive make his what we see today.

Zadina has the skill, but it is unclear whether he has the hockey sense to utilize it at the NHL level.

I don't think I'll ever figure out what this "skill" thing is you hfboards is so obsessed about or why it is so obsessed about it.
Speed, vision, and anticipation aren't skill???

 

[TatarTangle]

I would love to play hockey with everyone in this thread

 

[lomekian]

Not seen that many AHL games, but Zadina as Hudler + isn't a bad return for 6th OA. Hurler was undermined by size, off ice habits and variable work ethic.

If Zadina, as already a bit bigger and a slightly better skater with a better shot can improve his playmaking to Hudler levels and avoid slacking or some of the other extra/curricula stuff, he'll be very good indeed. Not a franchise player, but a genuine PPG first liner if paired with a playmaker and size.

The key thing is, can he improve his space awareness, his evasiveness and his physicality and pace (in terms of foot speed and pace of play)?

His shot is clearly NHL level already, and he has some moves and passing ability, so I think we should remain excited.

Anyone who thought he would be a franchise player anytime soon must believe 4 other GMs to be stupid:

He may yet become a Kucherov type, but that's setting a Very high bar.

 

[FMichael]

No, this guy is a **** from LGWs. He stirs the pot everywhere he goes.

Being a poster at both sites (more so at LGW) - I can honestly say CRL tends to make many think outside their comfort zone, and answer for their posts...He has no issue questioning those with 'armchair quarterback', or 'unconventional' ideas, and that I always welcome for it brings about interesting banter.

 

[JoesuffP]

if Zadina’s first 20 pro games makes you think he’s Hudler than what did Mantha’s first 3 years in the AHL make you think? Still turned into a top six forward pretty quickly at the NHL level despite having 3 very average years in the AHL. You’re just cherry picking his weaknesses at the pro level like positioning and awareness is not something that can be taught all of a sudden. I’m not envious of any picks after him at this point

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Just want to kindly remind everyone that there is a convenient ignore feature on this forum

And just to stay on topic, really excited about Zadina. He's realgud.

If you can't tolerate dissenting opinion, then by all means use the ignore feature on me. I have no desire to engage with anyone who can't handle mature discussion.

This was sarcasm. For the love of god, please stop.


And also, should we go to the Zadina draft pick thread to see all of the bold proclamations of how great the kid will be before he ever played an AHL game? That was ok, but 16 AHL games,training camp, prospects tournament is just WAY TOO SOON??

Kinda my point. The rhetoric coming out of the draft was this kid can probably be an NHLer on day 1... and if he's not, he can at least dominate the AHL for a season. Well he's not in the NHL or dominating the AHL... I think it's pretty fair to express disappointment in that. Doesn't mean I've completely written the kid off.

Not seen that many AHL games, but Zadina as Hudler + isn't a bad return for 6th OA. Hurler was undermined by size, off ice habits and variable work ethic.

If Zadina, as already a bit bigger and a slightly better skater with a better shot can improve his playmaking to Hudler levels and avoid slacking or some of the other extra/curricula stuff, he'll be very good indeed. Not a franchise player, but a genuine PPG first liner if paired with a playmaker and size.

The key thing is, can he improve his space awareness, his evasiveness and his physicality and pace (in terms of foot speed and pace of play)?

His shot is clearly NHL level already, and he has some moves and passing ability, so I think we should remain excited.

Anyone who thought he would be a franchise player anytime soon must believe 4 other GMs to be stupid:

He may yet become a Kucherov type, but that's setting a Very high bar.

Everyone took Hudler 2.0 as wayyyyyy too much of an insult to Zadina. Hudler was a very talented hockey player who had a ton off-ice issues that shot him in the foot. If Zadina is similar, but bigger + more skilled + behaved off the ice, we're looking at a very good future hockey player. Again, I just see his style of play as someone who needs a high level center next to him.

Being a poster at both sites (more so at LGW) - I can honestly say CRL tends to make many think outside their comfort zone, and answer for their posts...He has no issue questioning those with 'armchair quarterback', or 'unconventional' ideas, and that I always welcome for it brings about interesting banter.

Cheers my friend

if Zadina’s first 20 pro games makes you think he’s Hudler than what did Mantha’s first 3 years in the AHL make you think? Still turned into a top six forward pretty quickly at the NHL level despite having 3 very average years in the AHL. You’re just cherry picking his weaknesses at the pro level like positioning and awareness is not something that can be taught all of a sudden. I’m not envious of any picks after him at this point

I've thought Mantha was Franzen 2.0 since the day we drafted him, and I still believe this. Take that anyway you like.

I think all things can be taught to some degree, but I think hockey IQ is the least teachable skill. And to be specific I think IQ in the O zone is the least teachable. Defense can be taught.

Again I ask, if I am not allowed to judge Zadina because it's too soon, when am I allowed to judge him? At the end of the season? End of next season? 5 years from now? Yes, I've been critical of his weaknesses, but I've also acknowledged his strengths. It seems more like you and many others around here simply won't tolerate any critical opinion of Zadina at all...

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Not seen that many AHL games, but Zadina as Hudler + isn't a bad return for 6th OA. Hurler was undermined by size, off ice habits and variable work ethic.

If Zadina, as already a bit bigger and a slightly better skater with a better shot can improve his playmaking to Hudler levels and avoid slacking or some of the other extra/curricula stuff, he'll be very good indeed. Not a franchise player, but a genuine PPG first liner if paired with a playmaker and size.

The key thing is, can he improve his space awareness, his evasiveness and his physicality and pace (in terms of foot speed and pace of play)?

His shot is clearly NHL level already, and he has some moves and passing ability, so I think we should remain excited.

Anyone who thought he would be a franchise player anytime soon must believe 4 other GMs to be stupid:

He may yet become a Kucherov type, but that's setting a Very high bar.

Hudler was mostly undermined by playing for a coach who refused to acknowledge that he was as good as he was. His work ethic was exemplary and he developed those bad off-ice habits long after leaving Detroit. Hudler and Datsyuk's production was so much better when they played with each other than when they didn't, yet they rarely did.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Funny, but I dont get it..

 

[SCD]

I don't think I'll ever figure out what this "skill" thing is you hfboards is so obsessed about

You don't understand the concept or don't know it when you see it?

 

[lomekian]

if Zadina’s first 20 pro games makes you think he’s Hudler than what did Mantha’s first 3 years in the AHL make you think? Still turned into a top six forward pretty quickly at the NHL level despite having 3 very average years in the AHL. You’re just cherry picking his weaknesses at the pro level like positioning and awareness is not something that can be taught all of a sudden. I’m not envious of any picks after him at this point

I think anyone discussing envy at all but the absolute top picks that were gone by the time we picked is an idiot. Far to early to say anything about all but the best. This time last year people were down on Rasmussen because they were comparing him to their top end projections of others on the table.

We still have no idea how any of those players will pan out long term, but we have confirmed what those more comfortable with the puck said st the time...that his size and skill set would make him effective as an NHL-er where others with higher ceilings skill wise have more doubt attached.

Will he be better than Necas or Vilardi long term? Who knows! But so far he's a player we can be happy to have.

With Zadina, those picked ahead of him have shown themselves to be more NHL ready, but with only 20 pro games each at best, drawing longer term conclusions is fools gold.

All we know now is that Zadina isn't as NHL ready as we hoped.

Bar Dahlin, long term projections of any of the 2018 draft are still v uncertain - it depends on how they address their flaws and grow in areas of strength.

We do know that if Zadina can think the game better and skate more strongly and dynamically he could yet be a PPG winger on a good team. Equally without development he could become Yakupov 2.0.

High risk, high reward, which is what everyone asked for.

I think we'll be happy with the pick in 10 years while recognising others picked lower may have had better careers.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Hudler was mostly undermined by playing for a coach who refused to acknowledge that he was as good as he was. His work ethic was exemplary and he developed those bad off-ice habits long after leaving Detroit. Hudler and datsyuk's production was so much better when they played with each other than when they didn't, yet they rarely did.

Oh he had the bad habits during his tenure Detroit as well...

 

[Ezekial]

You don't understand the concept or don't know it when you see it?

It's just one of those things about how people define what skill is. People used to complain that Rasmussen isn't "skilled" but his ability to redirect the puck is one of the most essential skills a hockey player can have.