Rumor: Wings had offer on the table for Barzal

[koteka]

As a Jackets fan, I would offer

Kent Johnson (2021 #5 overall pick who has impressed at Michigan and the Olympics)
Chicago’s 2022 1st round pick (currently #8 by points percentage)
one of: Columbus’ 2022 1st round pick (currently #13) or Liam Foudy or Alexandre Texier
Emil Bemstrom
Dmitri Voronkov

for extended Barzal. And I wouldn’t think twice about it. I don’t see a Barzal trade happening without an extension already in place.

 

[Bench]

As a Jackets fan, I would offer

Kent Johnson (2021 #5 overall pick who has impressed at Michigan and the Olympics)
Chicago’s 2022 1st round pick (currently #8 by points percentage)
one of: Columbus’ 2022 1st round pick (currently #13) or Liam Foudy or Alexandre Texier
Emil Bemstrom
Dmitri Voronkov

for extended Barzal. And I wouldn’t think twice about it. I don’t see a Barzal trade happening without an extension already in place.

Whew, well nobody is going to beat that.

I don't see Barzal as deserving an offer that strong, but hey, desperate times.

 

[Gniwder]

Fedorov often got about 60-70 points instead of 100 points.
I've often wondered how many points Datsyuk could have had.
I don't really know.
I think both guys could have achieved more offense in less restrictive systems.

It's interesting to me that Nelson leads the team with 42 points.
They're definitely playing low-event hockey on the Island.

Caps stats under Trotz (his Cup season)

Washington Capitals 2017-18 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2017-18 Washington Capitals playing in the NHL.

www.hockeydb.com

Kuz played with Ovechkin so that explains his points, but Backstrom did OK that season as 2C.

I think Barzal's lack of points really has more to do with a lack of talented wingers than Trotz's system.

New York Islanders 2021-22 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2021-22 New York Islanders playing in the NHL.

www.hockeydb.com

If the price for Barzal is Bert, then he wouldn't be playing with any talent in Detroit either so I wouldn't expect a big change in point totals.

 

[Bench]

If the price for Barzal is Bert, then he wouldn't be playing with any talent in Detroit either so I wouldn't expect a big change in point totals.

The Gagner disrespect.

 

[jkutswings]

If the price for Barzal is Bert, then he wouldn't be playing with any talent in Detroit either so I wouldn't expect a big change in point totals.

How so? I'd start with:

Raymond - Larkin - XXX
Vrana - Barzal - XXX

Which allows for a balanced top six, with maybe Berggren mixing in and maybe a free agent to round it out.

It's not the starting lineup for the All Star game. But it's far from not playing with any talent.

 

[SI90]

Asking for Barzal is close to the isles asking for Sieder. Just won’t happen unless Barzal wants out.

 

[Gniwder]

How so? I'd start with:

Raymond - Larkin - XXX
Vrana - Barzal - XXX

Which allows for a balanced top six, with maybe Berggren mixing in and maybe a free agent to round it out.

It's not the starting lineup for the All Star game. But it's far from not playing with any talent.

Name a player or current prospect that belongs on the first line.....

It requires a free agent, though a free agent winger is easier to find than a free agent center. The only reason why a Bert/Barzal trade would make sense is if Stevie wants to overpay for a FA winger.

 

[jkutswings]

The only reason why a Bert/Barzal trade would make sense is if Stevie wants to overpay for a FA winger.

Which I'm fine with. Trade for Barzal, toss Berggren on the second line, go nuts and add Filip Forsberg, and watch the offense really come to life.

 

[Oddbob]

If we're pitching for Barzal, we're telling the world that the pieces are in place and that we're ready to climb out of the basement, but if we trade Edvinsson away, I don't see how we can make that argument. We could probably squeeze get back into the playoffs, sure, but we wouldn't have the depth to make a serious run. Granted, I'm pretty attached to Edvinsson's potential, but I think he's an integral piece to our rebuild and wouldn't be willing to trade him. I'd tell the Islanders they can pick up to four assets including:

• One roster player (excluding: Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Bertuzzi)
• Up to four prospects (excluding: Edvinsson)
• Up to three first rounders with no lottery protections

They could get some decent hauls out of that:

• Vrana, Berggren, Wallinder, 2023 1st
• Hronek, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, and 2024 1st
• Zadina, Johansson, 2023 1st, 2024 1st

I don't think they'd go for any of those packages though unless Barzal demands a trade. They're rebuilding, true, but Barzal should be a part of that rebuild, and they'd be digging a significant hole for themselves if they give him up.

Having said all of that, I seriously doubt there was ever a deal on the table, or at least, not one that both teams would've been all that interested in.

No way is Steve giving up Edvinsson. I just can't see it, as he just talked about how great he is coming along the other day.

 

[MBH]

No way is Steve giving up Edvinsson. I just can't see it, as he just talked about how great he is coming along the other day.

I think it would depend on what Yzerman thinks of prospects like Wallinder, Johansson, etc.

 

[Geezer WC]

Barzal without Trotz 1.1ppg

With Trotz .8 ppg = 24 points per year?

 

[MBH]

Barzal without Trotz 1.1ppg

With Trotz .8 ppg = 24 points per year?

Was thinking the same.
But that's also pre and post Tavares, too.

 

[14ari13]

Isles fan coming in peace/with perspective:

Something to consider here is that the Islanders have a pretty strong vaccination policy. They shipped off one of their top prospects, Bode Wilde from the AHL squad to a team in Europe this season because he did not get vaccinated. I understand the Covid policy meta is constantly shifting, but it certainly would be a pretty quick about-face to go from sending players to Sweden to trading your 1C for a famously unvaccinated player, no matter how Lou-ish or Trotz-y the player is.

As for Barzal's return, he seems to be criminally undervalued on this thread. He is not a 2C. Yes, his numbers are down from the free-wheeling Doug Weight year, but that's because he's been tasked with more defensive responsibility and working on other parts of his game. He's also been playing with 2nd/3rd/4th line caliber players the last couple of seasons. Put him on an offensive minded team and put real talent around him and he'll eclipse that 85 point mark REAL fast. GMs know this, and so does Arthur Staple (former Isles beat writer). Bertuzzi + Zadina + a first is not close and wouldn't have Staple tweeting about it. I'm not super familiar with the Wings' squad this year, but it would likely take something like a top 6 C, top 4 LHD, good prospect and first for him to even bring it up. Not sure what your guys' version of that is, but we are very set with wingers right now and our center depth is thin - there's no way any Barzal deal was/will be based around Bertuzzi.

I think you criminally underestimate Bertuzzi and criminally overvalue Barzal. But that's fine, we all do.

I strongly doubt your organisation will move Barzal. I think this is fan's pipedream only.
Bertuzzi is a kind of player coaches love, he plays a playoffs style hockey. If a GM thinks his team is close going all the way he might overpay for Bertuzzi. Both Lou and Trotz have been in the league so long that the fans know them and their strengths and weaknesses.

But Bertuzzi is older than Barzal and with Bertuzzi's health issues I think Lou would be crazy to move Barzal for Bertuzzi+++.

 

[14ari13]

Asking for Barzal is close to the isles asking for Sieder. Just won’t happen unless Barzal wants out.

Unless Barzal wants badly out.

 

[14ari13]

Barzal without Trotz 1.1ppg

With Trotz .8 ppg = 24 points per year?

Was thinking the same.
But that's also pre and post Tavares, too.

Both these are important and have to be taken into consideration. He has scored 12 goals this season and is on pace for 17. And he is trending down. Namestikov and Fabbri have outscored him.

 

[jkutswings]

Both these are important and have to be taken into consideration. He has scored 12 goals this season and is on pace for 17. And he is trending down.

Last year you could have made the same criticism of Larkin. Things can change quickly in the right scenario.

I agree that it's a very long shot that Barzal would even be available, but I'd trade any asset other than Larkin, Seider, or Raymond to get him.

 

[Henkka]

Barzal for Tuzzi+Hronek would have been fine for me.

 

[Henkka]

Both these are important and have to be taken into consideration. He has scored 12 goals this season and is on pace for 17. And he is trending down. Namestikov and Fabbri have outscored him.

That's what happens when Team1 can play legit defence, and Team2 can not.

Namestnikov and Fabbri are favored thanks to HIGH scoring, which is caused by the bad defensive defence. The opposite of NY Islanders.

NY Islanders have lost some skill from their defnce, so Barzal's offence has suffered. Playing less with the puck, more on his own end. Same as Larkin before.

This is same discussion, than how much more Pavel Datsyuk would have been able to score, if not doing any defence by himself.

 

[14ari13]

Last year you could have made the same criticism of Larkin. Things can change quickly in the right scenario.

I agree that it's a very long shot that Barzal would even be available, but I'd trade any asset other than Larkin, Seider, or Raymond to get him.

He has never scored more than 22 goals, all but one under 20. And he is trending down. If he doesn't like Trotz and Trotz does not like him the things can happen.

Barzal for Tuzzi+Hronek would have been fine for me.

Rasmussen, Bertuzzi and Hronek for Barzal and something and Lou and Trotz are pulling the trigger.

That's what happens when Team1 can play legit defence, and Team2 can not.

Namestnikov and Fabbri are favored thanks to HIGH scoring, which is caused by the bad defensive defence. The opposite of NY Islanders.

NY Islanders have lost some skill from their defnce, so Barzal's offence has suffered. Playing less with the puck, more on his own end. Same as Larkin before.

This is same discussion, than how much more Pavel Datsyuk would have been able to score, if not doing any defence by himself.

I know. But Lou and Trotz are not changing their hockey.

Blashill has allowed the team to play some offensive hockey and it serves good our players in some regard but it comes at expense of defensive game and we have allowed many goals. But that's how it works.

 

[jkutswings]

Rasmussen, Bertuzzi and Hronek for Barzal and something and Lou and Trotz are pulling the trigger.

If the, "and something" is anything more than a bag of pucks, I'd do that in a heartbeat. It doesn't cost any high picks or assets that are absolute deal breakers.

 

[14ari13]

Umm, I would drive Edvinsson to the airport myself to make that highway robbery of a deal happen. I don't care if he's the next Bobby Orr in 10 years. Right now he's a highly regarded prospect with zero NHL games, versus a young but proven NHL center roughly of Larkin's caliber.

And I would make sure your car doesn't move an inch.

why the f does everyone on this forum want to get rid of Bert? He's one of our best players and brings it every night

I guess because you have to give something to get something. Bertuzzi might be too old when we are ready to compete.

That's crazy. You're crazy.

Barzal is a top line center. Proven, signed, sealed, delivered. I'd trade Edvinsson, Suter, our first, and something else good in a freaking heartbeat.

Osterley, Suter and our 3rd is equivalent underpayment of your overpayment.

 

[14ari13]

If the, "and something" is anything more than a bag of pucks, I'd do that in a heartbeat. It doesn't cost any high picks or assets that are absolute deal breakers.

I don't know anything about their team and Barzal. I just checked their roster and his stats. I know who Lou and Trotz is though.

Barzal is trending down, that's for sure. So do the NYI. So what is the case?
As I have gone through this thread I think he is extremely overrated by the posters in the thread.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You are over-valuing Barzal then.

That sort of package is reserved for elite players, not just good players.

I like Barzal too, he's actually one of my favorite players. After his rookie season, I thought he'd be a bit more than he is today if I'm being honest. Can we all agree that Barzal is in the "average 1C" category?

You're straight up telling me you'd give Edvinsson, Suter, 9/10/11 overall pick and Berggren (I just tossed him here as your "something else good") for Barzal?

I'll agree to disagree with you on this one. 4 quality assets for the, what, 25th best center in the NHL? nope.

I’d consider it too if Berggren were switched for a different prospect

 

[haulinbass]

Omg, I would absolutely love Barzal on the Wings. He's been my favorite player to watch since he played for Seattle and everyone was convinced he couldn't do anything in the NHL.

I think Barzal would flourish with the right players

 

[Snuggs]

Whew, well nobody is going to beat that.

I don't see Barzal as deserving an offer that strong, but hey, desperate times.

Hang on...

Hold my beer.