Willy Part XVI - The Zurich Summit

[Cor]

I've been pretty confused at Lewis Gross' stance for a while now

- Apparently William Nylander doesn't want to get traded, so Gross is asking for an amount that the Leafs are totally unwilling to do, which has increased, even just slightly, the odds of Nylander getting traded
- Apparently Gross is using the Draisaitl contract as the main comparable, despite every other comparable deeming Nylander's value to be in the 6.5M range, 2M less.
- Gross and Nylander have continued this hold out, despite the team showing more each game they can score at a high level without Nylander, there is a potential replacement for Nylander in his current spot, and Mike Babcock getting more dimissive of Nylander each post-game interview he's asked about him.

It's been a very very odd negotiation from the Nylander camp.

 

[Not My Tempo]

If you give Nylander a 1 year 12 mil offer, you have to give him a 12 mil qualifying offer next season if he decides he doesn’t want to hold his end of the bargain up. No GM in the league would risk it

 

[TDotMassive]

Why is this repeatedly brought up?

It. Can't. Be. Done. Without. Huge. Risk.

What's the risk in it?

 

[deletethis]

Bad Leaf teams of old usually fell for the trick of "Player X is in a somewhat limited role behind so and so, but given free reign and more opportunities you could see him blossom into that guy your team really, really needs." Jonathan Bernier, Vesa Toskala, Francois Beauchemin, Mike Komisarek, Pavel Kubina, David Clarkson, etc. at various positions all fall into that category. You take a guy who is well insulated in Pesce and start talking PP time, you're probably going down a bad road.

There's a little of this to Nylander as well: I'm sure there exists someone in hockey who thinks Nylander is potentially number 1 center material.

Why would Pesce ever by a PP point man on the Leafs? There's Rielly then there's Zaitsev then there's Dermott and there will probably someone else in the pecking order in a couple of years.

 

[Not My Tempo]

I've been pretty confused at Lewis Gross' stance for a while now

- Apparently William Nylander doesn't want to get traded, so Gross is asking for an amount that the Leafs are totally unwilling to do, which has increased, even just slightly, the odds of Nylander getting traded
- Apparently Gross is using the Draisaitl contract as the main comparable, despite every other comparable deeming Nylander's value to be in the 6.5M range, 2M less.
- Gross and Nylander have continued this hold out, despite the team showing more each game they can score at a high level without Nylander, there is a potential replacement for Nylander in his current spot, and Mike Babcock getting more dimissive of Nylander each post-game interview he's asked about him.

It's been a very very odd negotiation from the Nylander camp.

Lol and as the Leafs are off to a 6-1 start, there’s suddenly “leak” of a KHL team looking at Nylander. I’d say his agent might be starting to sweat lol. Not only is he not gonna get Willy the contract he said he would, but this holdout has made him lose considerable amount of money.

 

[biotk]

It seems so insanely brilliant... why isn't this happening? Must be something we're not seeing.

What you are missing is that if he doesn't sign an extension after accepting a one year deal for 12 or 13 million for one year, then at the start of the summer the Leafs have to either extend him a qualifying offer for the same amount for the following year (and subsequent years until he is a UFA) or he becomes a UFA immediately.

 

[drewjenks]

I actually think the best possible outcome for the Leafs would be to bridge Nylander at HUGE money -- $12-13m, whatever takes them up to the cap on Dec 1 -- and then sign him for 8y at much a lower AAV next season. Willie gets paid what he would be missing out otherwise, Leafs get to keep the team together now and in the future. Everyone wins.

YES! Been saying this for a while.

The league might investigate....but they can't prove collusion.

So it would work out fine.

 

[kb]

What you are missing is that if he doesn't sign an extension after accepting a one year deal for 12 or 13 million for one year, then at the start of the summer the Leafs have to either extend him a qualifying offer for the same amount for the following year (and subsequent years until he is a UFA) or he becomes a UFA immediately.

Some people really need to do even a modicum of reading. Ugh.

 

[kb]

YES! Been saying this for a while.

The league might investigate....but they can't prove collusion.

So it would work out fine.

No, it's not fine. Read the other smart posts.

 

[drewjenks]

What you are missing is that if he doesn't sign an extension after accepting a one year deal for 12 or 13 million for one year, then at the start of the summer the Leafs have to either extend him a qualifying offer for the same amount for the following year (and subsequent years until he is a UFA) or he becomes a UFA immediately.

If his agent even joked about pulling that s*** he'd be black balled by every GM in the NHL.

The extension would be pre-negotiated (regardless of performance this year).

 

[AppsSyl]

I haven't posted this thought yet but I've been thinking there is going to need to be a strategy going forward to create a steady influx of cheap quality youth over the next decade to maintain the team as a contender. Futures that have a higher chance to develop into cheap options when other forwards get too expensive will be a necessity. That's other team's 1st/2nd round draft picks, other team's quality prospects. This is something Chicago had to do when useful young players like Byfuglien/Versteeg/Ladd/Brouwer/Niemi had to go when raises were due to them.

Forget to say: a bridge deal seems to make complete sense. I can only assume it's Nylander's camp that doesn't want to go in that direction.

It is called trade your pending UFAs at the deadline if you can't re-sign them, and replace them with the Johnson's, Kapanen's, etc from your farm for the playoff push instead of this self rental nonsense. Look at the assets we lost last year with keeping JVR, Bozak and Komarov, and likely this year with Gardiner.

 

[drewjenks]

No, it's not fine. Read the other smart posts.

That he's gonna hold out & we'll be forced to pay him more next year or walk ?

Ya OK....both contracts would be negotiated at once silly boy.

And the agents NHL career would be over if he broke his word.

 

[IPS]

Lol and as the Leafs are off to a 6-1 start, there’s suddenly “leak” of a KHL team looking at Nylander. I’d say his agent might be starting to sweat lol. Not only is he not gonna get Willy the contract he said he would, but this holdout has made him lose considerable amount of money.

It's a calculated risk and it's failing. I mean Nylander's played on this team for the last 2 years, maybe he figured the Leafs were due for a slow start to the year?

I mean think about it if the Leafs did start slow, especially offensively. We know how the media is, they'd make it a massive panic that Toronto needs Nylander back ASAP.

 

[socko]

If the puck don't fit, you must acquit.

 

[kb]

If his agent even joked about pulling that s*** he'd be black balled by every GM in the NHL.

The extension would be pre-negotiated (regardless of performance) this year.

You put the salary numbers totally in control of the hands of a player who is CURRENTLY HOLDING OUT FOR MORE MONEY. He doesn't even have to do anything. The Leafs screw themselves over.

Dumbest move in the history of negotiating.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lewis Gross backed himself into a corner and cant get out because its too late now.

Nylander camp is probably sweating and contemplating firing him.

 

[drewjenks]

Some people really need to do even a modicum of reading. Ugh.

Some people need to understand context.

 

[kb]

That he's gonna hold out & we'll be forced to pay him more't expe next year or walk ?

Ya OK....both contracts would be negotiated at once silly boy.

And the agents NHL career would be over if he broke his word.

I don't expect you to be smart, I do expect you to defend your position.

Can't be both.

 

[socko]

Got to be Willy's agent.

 

[drewjenks]

You put the salary numbers totally in control of the hands of a player who is CURRENTLY HOLDING OUT FOR MORE MONEY. He doesn't even have to do anything. The Leafs screw themselves over.

Dumbest move in the history of negotiating.

He's holding out because they haven't reached an agreement.

If they reached one....the parties wouldn't then go back on their word.

That's how careers end.

 

[kb]

He's holding out because they haven't reached an agreement.

If they reached one....the parties wouldn't then go back on their word.

That's how careers end.

If you give him a $13 million dollar contract for this season, that is the minimum he will get next season BY NOT SIGNING OR DOING ANYTHING. The Leafs HAVE TO offer him that by CBA rules or he is a UFA. And if he signs for less, 30 teams will be calling them out on it.

You are a smart guy. Just recognize this. Please.

 

[deletethis]

According to this 2016 report, the highest salary in the KHL is in the $5M region with it rapidly going below $2M before the top 10 paid KHL players rounds out. Report: List of 30 highest-paid KHLers revealed - Sportsnet.ca

I'd say that makes this KHL threat laughable.

 

[Kiwi]

Lol and as the Leafs are off to a 6-1 start, there’s suddenly “leak” of a KHL team looking at Nylander. I’d say his agent might be starting to sweat lol. Not only is he not gonna get Willy the contract he said he would, but this holdout has made him lose considerable amount of money.

I doubt he's lost money because of this

I feel like the Leafs camp would have put something acceptable to them in the "general range" of Nylander’s comparables and told him to give them a call when he's ready to sign

Why budge if all the leverage is on your side in the first place?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think, if a deal can't be struck, on December 1 they'll sign some sort of 1 year deal and revisit things in the summer.

There's 0 chance Nylander sits out the entire season.

so they can sign Nylander+Matthews+Marner in the same offseason? They'd be better off trading him

 

[drewjenks]

Dubas gonna get us a top pairing RHD signed for 6 years at 4M.
I love Willy though

I think there's gotta be an add to get Willy for Pesce.

And the add should be retained salary.

So I'm hoping we'd get Pesce for $2,025,000 x 6 years.

But I'd rather keep Nylander.