Speculation: Willy Nilly XX

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

My impression - and this is just my impression, so take it for what it's worth - is that intense in-person contact between GM and agent tend to happen more when deals are about to get done. The regular talks are more often with an assistant, and more often than not in person. So if that's true, three in-person meetings in short order should mean that something might happen soon.

Yep. It might be something, and it might be nothing. But them having dialogue is what they need to get something done, so it's at least a good start

 

[BrannigansLaw]

That's a couple in person meetings in a row now. Get it done Kyle!

 

[Cor]

That Dubas and Gross are talking shouldn't be a surprise.
If they weren't talking, that would be surprising.

My impression - and this is just my impression, so take it for what it's worth - is that intense in-person contact between GM and agent tend to happen more when deals are about to get done. The regular talks are more often with an assistant, and more often than not in person. So if that's true, three in-person meetings in short order should mean that something might happen soon.

It certainly is pretty relevant that a couple days after Kyle Dubas gets back from a sit down meeting with William Nylander, he is now meeting in person with Gross back-to-back days.

IIRC, typically Pridham and/or Gilman would have handled the initial talks, and if something is close, that's when Dubas would get involved. As @Nithoniniel said most talks are done over the phone/emails, and then when things are close that is when you tend to get together and iron out the last details and do up the paperwork.

Either that, or things are still so far apart Dubas has now just taken over the entire efforts himself and is making a last ditch effort to convince the Nylander camp that if he signs the deal in the 6M range he isn't being traded and that is what is needed for Nylander to stay a Leaf.

I'm nervous

 

[Menzinger]

But it is though.

Tavares could have easily told the Leafs to up their offer because he was getting offered more by at least 2 teams we know of, but because he wanted to play with our core guys, he accepted less from us.

Don’t call it a “discount” if you want, but he 100% left money on the table.

William Nylander for example, isn’t leaving anything on the table. In fact, he wants Dubas to pass over some more.

That’s the difference between the two.

It’s also “easier” to leave money on the table when you’re making well over 10 million and are about to become the second highest paid NHLer (at least in terms of AAV).

 

[BlueForever75]

still not a discount... clarkson was offered more elsewhere as well..... what a coup that was ...

Are you really comparing Tavares to Clarkson???

Tavares will be far from a bust as Clarkson was. And he is worth every penny. He's already elevated Matthews and Marner's games with his presence. If he took 2 million less a season to play with our young core and at home. It is a discount which ever way you want to look at it.

Willy doesn't need to take 2 million less to be a Leaf long term. He needs to accept the fact that there are either better or similar players to him that are getting paid what they are. As we can see Draistle isn't worth his contract. Never will be. The Leafs are in the right to not want to make the same mistake that the Oilers did. Just because one team has made a mistake, doesn't mean that is the bar when 95% of the players at his level are being paid what they are.

Willy needs to get his head out of his ass. That will make things move along.

 

[Stacker29]

I believe this thing is done one way or another this week.

The one on one with Nylander, followed by the agent meeting, I would suspect a fresh offer was delivered last night, and Willy is now chewing on it. Likely one long term, and one bridge offer, with a "take it or we trade you" type tone to it...

I'm praying we keep him.

 

[GoonieFace]

It’s also “easier” to leave money on the table when you’re making well over 10 million and are about to become the second highest paid NHLer (at least in terms of AAV).

Its not easy when you earned the right to become a UFA and have consistently put up great numbers for the past 8 or 9 years. How many UFA's of this magnitude actually make it to free agency, never mind sign with another team. Nylander has played 2 NHL seasons and has put up some good numbers, but he hasn't earned anything.

 

[Cor]

It’s also “easier” to leave money on the table when you’re making well over 10 million and are about to become the second highest paid NHLer (at least in terms of AAV).

The idea that the more money you make the easier it is for you to give up money is so blatently false.

At the end of the day, William Nylander isn't leaving money on the table. Even if it is 'easier' for Tavares to leave money on the table, Nylander isn't leaving any on the table whatsoever, and is fighting to get even more.

I think the highest I've seen anyone say they are comfortable signing Nylander at is like 7.1M, and that's only because as of now, his 2-6 year cap hits would still be around 6.7M.

Reports are saying Nylander is/was asking for 8 to 8.5M.

Like, no one is saying to lowball Nylander, or even for him to leave money on the table. Reports are the Leafs were willing to do 6x6.5M. If that had happened, I think everyone's reaction would be "yeah, that's about right". And that is exactly the point. Dubas said it. We can't manage the cap if we are out here giving out record contracts to RFA's. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, all have to be willing to take their market value and that's based off of comparables.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Reports? What reports?

 

[DanM]

The idea that the more money you make the easier it is for you to give up money is so blatently false.

At the end of the day, William Nylander isn't leaving money on the table. Even if it is 'easier' for Tavares to leave money on the table, Nylander isn't leaving any on the table whatsoever, and is fighting to get even more.

I think the highest I've seen anyone say they are comfortable signing Nylander at is like 7.1M, and that's only because as of now, his 2-6 year cap hits would still be around 6.7M.

Reports are saying Nylander is/was asking for 8 to 8.5M.

Like, no one is saying to lowball Nylander, or even for him to leave money on the table. Reports are the Leafs were willing to do 6x6.5M. If that had happened, I think everyone's reaction would be "yeah, that's about right". And that is exactly the point. Dubas said it. We can't manage the cap if we are out here giving out record contracts to RFA's. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, all have to be willing to take their market value and that's based off of comparables.

So well said

Most posters don't understand this. The team just wants them to see market value.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Either that, or things are still so far apart Dubas has now just taken over the entire efforts himself and is making a last ditch effort to convince the Nylander camp that if he signs the deal in the 6M range he isn't being traded and that is what is needed for Nylander to stay a Leaf.

Man, I managed to keep this scenario out of my head until I read your reply.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It’s also “easier” to leave money on the table when you’re making well over 10 million and are about to become the second highest paid NHLer (at least in terms of AAV).

And:
1 - have made so much money that you're set for life already
2 - are signing where you have dreamt of playing since you were a kid
3 - are getting an NMC, something which Nylander can't get

Not a great start lol

LOL.

The idea that the more money you make the easier it is for you to give up money is so blatently false.

At the end of the day, William Nylander isn't leaving money on the table. Even if it is 'easier' for Tavares to leave money on the table, Nylander isn't leaving any on the table whatsoever, and is fighting to get even more.

I think the highest I've seen anyone say they are comfortable signing Nylander at is like 7.1M, and that's only because as of now, his 2-6 year cap hits would still be around 6.7M.

Reports are saying Nylander is/was asking for 8 to 8.5M.

Like, no one is saying to lowball Nylander, or even for him to leave money on the table. Reports are the Leafs were willing to do 6x6.5M. If that had happened, I think everyone's reaction would be "yeah, that's about right". And that is exactly the point. Dubas said it. We can't manage the cap if we are out here giving out record contracts to RFA's. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, all have to be willing to take their market value and that's based off of comparables.

Maybe, maybe not. Even if true though, there are other considerations as well (see my 3 points above).

 

[Cor]

Man, I managed to keep this scenario out of my head until I read your reply.

It's something I'm trying to sorta accept.

Like, it's no secret I am one of Nylander's biggest fans. I drove the draft board crazy during his draft year. I jumped up yelling "f*** yeah" when I heard Dave Nonis say "from Sweden" because I was convinced we were going to pick Nick Ritchie.

I am hoping Nylander spends his entire career as a Leaf. I hope tomorrow he signs an 8 year deal, and everything is forgotten.

It seems unlikely that will happen so I'm trying to aim as low as I can.

It sucks

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Still not sure this hold up is purely about money now but more so of what the Tavares signing means for Williams career and further development and the chance to earn more money in the future.

When Tavares signed it more or less meant William as a C would never become an option and that his chance of 1st PP minutes are slim.

Nylander, imo has a lot of ambitions and see him self as some one who should drive a line and be the face of a franchise or at least one of the faces. Not being the 3rd or most likely 4th best player and then of course earn accordingly.

Leafs had a development plan for him that he seemed to buy into but now that has changed. So perhaps there is some broken trust there that needs to heal before he signs. Or we simply trade him to a team in need of a potential first line C that can allow him to develop the way he like to.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It's something I'm trying to sorta accept.

Like, it's no secret I am one of Nylander's biggest fans. I drove the draft board crazy during his draft year. I jumped up yelling "**** yeah" when I heard Dave Nonis say "from Sweden" because I was convinced we were going to pick Nick Ritchie.

I am hoping Nylander spends his entire career as a Leaf. I hope tomorrow he signs an 8 year deal, and everything is forgotten.

It seems unlikely that will happen so I'm trying to aim as low as I can.

It sucks

if it helps, the Leafs are either going to end up with Nylander, or an asset/assets roughly as valuable as him. at least we're not like the Islanders with Tavares

 

[Nooodles]

if it helps, the Leafs are either going to end up with Nylander, or an asset/assets roughly as valuable as him. at least we're not like the Islanders with Tavares

Well the Oilers thought the same regarding Hall.

 

[Optimist]

Willy is just waiting for the Toronto civic election to be over with. Mark my words!

 

[Cor]

And:
1 - have made so much money that you're set for life already
2 - are signing where you have dreamt of playing since you were a kid
3 - are getting an NMC, something which Nylander can't get

Maybe, maybe not. Even if true though, there are other considerations as well (see my 3 points above).

My overall argument is that Nylander is leaving no money on the table, and isn't being asked to leave money on the table, so it is irrelevant as to whether it is easier for one person to leave money on the table versus another, no matter the reasons. However, I'll do my best to respond to each point.

1 - Again, just because Tavares has made money, and will be making more money, does not equate to it being easier to give up money. Most players have accoutants, they pay agent fees, they pay union fees, part of their income is held in escrow, and 'most' players pay quite high income taxes. The more you make, the more expensive your lifestyle is as well. It's not easy or easier for anyone to say "I'll hold on that extra 2M per season".

2 - Again, I don't see this as relevant in terms of contract. It's certainly a reason why he wanted to play for us, however the Leafs were only offering 11M because they had other star players they needed to pay (the same reason the Leafs are reportedly only offering 6-6.5M) and that's ultimatley the biggest reason why Tavares came here. In fact, I think JT got asked at his presser that if the Leafs didn't have Matthews, Marner and Nylander would he have signed here, and I believe he essentially said it may have changed things and it's a big reason why he decided to come here.

3- Exactly. He can't. Every other RFA his age, didn't get one either. Ehlers, Pastrnak, Forsberg, etc all didn't get a NMC. That has no affect on 2nd year negotiations because it's in the CBA that players can't receive one until they are 26 years of age or older. So if he signs a 6-8 year deal, the Leafs can have a NTC in there for years 6, 7, and 8 if he wants. You can't ask for more than similar RFA's because you can't get something they also didn't get either.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Still think a 6.5-6.75 x 7 year deal happens. Just makes sense to me.

Willy gets paid a fortune which includes plenty of signing bonuses in the next few years to protect against lockouts and Toronto get one of their star forwards locked up longterm. Also allows Nylander to get another 7 year deal afterwards as a UFA

 

[MyBudJT]

Well the Oilers thought the same regarding Hall.

And Tampa thought the same thing with Drouin...

 

[authentic]

Well the Oilers thought the same regarding Hall.

Not to worry though because we're far better than the Oilers at every single position.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well the Oilers thought the same regarding Hall.

Yeah but that's the oilers

 

[DarkKnight]

Well the Oilers thought the same regarding Hall.

I prefer the Drouin example.

 

[socko]

Just change Pesce to Hamilton and I'm good.

 

[Advanced stats]

You have to think progress is being made with dubas and gross meeting on back to back days, - yesterday and today. A trade is very very unlikely imo