Value of: William Nylander

[4thline]

What I’m saying is. Who is going to sign a 32 year old Andersen for more.

if he wants to leave for more money. To where?

You're not catching the sarcasm. I agree with you. Unless Freddy has a Vezina/Smythe season and Hyman duplicates his current performance over a full healthy season I figure they will be re-signed for 9.5 combined

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

What I’m saying is. Who is going to sign a 32 year old Andersen for more.

if he wants to leave for more money. To where?

NSH - Rinne is 38 later this year, UFA in 2021-22
They go with Andersen and Saros

MIN - Dubnyk will be 35 soon, UFA in 2021-22
They go with Andersen and Stalock

CAR - Reimer and Mrazek both UFA's in 2021-22
They go with Andersen and Mrazek/prospect

DET - Howard is walking this year, they could tank again with Bernier and a prospect/cheap backup
Then sign Andersen in UFA and have Mrazek/prospect as backup

BUF - Hutton is a 2021-22 UFA
They go with Andersen and Ullmark

CAL - Talbot is a UFA this year, go with Rittich and a 1b option
Then sign Andersen if Rittich doesn't become a clear cut #1

There are options out there for him

 

[4thline]

Just thinking of a few teams that could use Nylander and trying to match need for Toronto:

I think that you need to consider how deeply negative your reaction to those proposals for Rantanen would be.

Nylander isn't seen like that league wide, but under Keefe he's taken large strides to close that gap. I think in the years to come he's going to justify his hold out and emerge as an "equal" (Matthews clearly above the rest) in the Leafs big 4.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like the Leafs may have to move Nylander just to get cap compliant for next year. I don't think trading Johnsson alone is enough to become cap compliant. They may be able to get some RFAs on cheap 1 year deals and kick the can down the road, but that doesn't really help the Leafs when their only sizable expiring contract is Andersen in the next 2 years.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I’d give 11 and Pateryn for Nylander (after 2nd draft lottery)

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Assuming he is healthy, I’d trade the Avs 3rd rounder in 2021 for Johnsson. Not any more. Not a prospect, not a 2020 pick. It’s a cap dump for the Leafs. Otherwise, no interest.

would prefer to just hold onto Johnsson if that's the cost.
I'm fairly confident he will be able to bounce back.

 

[Richard88]

Yeah that won’t happen. I understand wanting more than I proposed but that would definitely be about as extreme as Colorado will offer knowing how easy it will be to pick apart the market due to the 3 year flat cap. Hell, Taylor Hall might be able to be had for 8ish million and wouldn’t cost any assets.
There’s going to be a huge value placed on ELC players and those on under market value deals over the next few years.

I think Kaut is the obvious name to include for Toronto in a Nylander trade. He's NHL ready and can slot in on the 3rd line on an ELC when Kapanen gets bumped up to take Nylander's place.

Timmins + Kaut + 1st + another piece (eg. Jost/Donskoi/Compher/2nd/etc) would be something to consider. I'd be willing to pay a pretty price for Nylander, though I'd stop short of offering Newhook or Byram as they are very crucial players for us going forwards (i.e. 2C and 1 LHD).

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Drouin + Mete for Nylander + 3rd

hard pass

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think Marner makes more sense tbh.
It’s not really just about becoming cap compliant with the current players and prospects. It’s about improving the team and making it a top contender by building a D that is capable of winning a Cup.
But if they do trade Nylander it has to be for a defensive D who can play on the top pairing with Reilly.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I’d value him at around a 5th overall pick

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think that you need to consider how deeply negative your reaction to those proposals for Rantanen would be.

Nylander isn't seen like that league wide, but under Keefe he's taken large strides to close that gap. I think in the years to come he's going to justify his hold out and emerge as an "equal" (Matthews clearly above the rest) in the Leafs big 4.

1. Nylander isn’t as good as Rantanen

2. If you’re trading a winger for a right-handed defneceman, the D has added value. Soderstrom and Dobson are two of the best right-handed D prospects in hockey.

3. I don’t think Nylander will ever be considered on par with Marner.

 

[4thline]

I feel like the Leafs may have to move Nylander just to get cap compliant for next year. I don't think trading Johnsson alone is enough to become cap compliant.

A Johnsson trade leaves them with 6.7 million for multi-year extensions to Dermott+Mikheyev + 2 4th line plays and a spare F

 

[Chayos]

I’d prefer Bouchard over Broberg but I’d consider that deal

Bouchard is needed if we move Larsson. We would not move him either way as he is our future pp Qb.

 

[4thline]

1. Nylander isn’t as good as Rantanen

2. If you’re trading a winger for a right-handed defneceman, the D has added value. Soderstrom and Dobson are two of the best right-handed D prospects in hockey.

3. I don’t think Nylander will ever be considered on par with Marner.

He isn't seen that way currently. Assigning value numbers call it 9 vs. 7.5. In two years I think that discussion will be more like 9 v 8.5, 8.75, and I think Leafs management sees him similarly.

 

[Crosscrease14]

would prefer to just hold onto Johnsson if that's the cost.
I'm fairly confident he will be able to bounce back.

I'd probably do this deal given the premium cost of cap space right now. If selling low on Johnsson means keeping the core together it's not a huge sacrifice.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

He isn't seen that way currently. Assigning value numbers call it 9 vs. 7.5. In two years I think that discussion will be more like 9 v 8.5, 8.75, and I think Leafs management sees him similarly.

Maybe he’s viewed differently by Leafs fans, I don’t know. I’ve always felt like Marner was the superior player, he just gets some negative value attached to him because of his contract.

You’re not going to get a top pairing right-shot defenceman for Nylander unless they’re 30+ years old.

Personally I think the Leafs would be better off either just keeping Nylander, or gambling on one of the very high-end RHD prospects I mentioned.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

A Johnsson trade leaves them with 6.7 million for multi-year extensions to Dermott+Mikheyev + 2 4th line plays and a spare F

Dermotts time with the leafs is done.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

He isn't seen that way currently. Assigning value numbers call it 9 vs. 7.5. In two years I think that discussion will be more like 9 v 8.5, 8.75, and I think Leafs management sees him similarly.

Is this a scale of 1-10? Based on overall play?
Just looking at the TOI, I think Nylander stays where he is in overall points, 60ish with a ceiling of 70pts.
Nothing wrong with that as he doesn't see top line minutes.
Only way he becomes close to a 9/10 (70-80+ pt player) is if Marner was moved imo.
Hyman (19:05) saw more overall TOI than Nylander (18:12), even with Nylander getting nearly 3 mins of PP time per game.

 

[Gavy]

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs
If you want how bad it for Leafs in 21-22. 68.2m 12 players (not including obvious min players to be sure. F Andersen and Hyman ufa's in 21. They can make cap this year with only small subtractions unless signing a 5m free agent d-man. In 21 they are screwed.

How many years in a row has hfboards been saying " leafs are screwed for this specific year".

How many times do the leafs have to teach you guys this lesson before you learn

 

[WetcoastOrca]

How many years in a row has hfboards been saying " leafs are screwed for this specific year".

How many times do the leafs have to teach you guys this lesson before you learn

Uhm. Did you look at the standings this year? The team was a 105 point team a couple of years ago and just made the playoffs this year.
I’m not sure what ‘lesson’ you think the Leafs are teaching.
The goal should be to build a top contender that competes for the Cup every year.

 

[Fatass]

Would Edmonton consider Nylander for Puljujarvi, Bouchard and 1st 2020

Great trade for Leafs, because they can use the saved cap dollars to sign a top UFA shut down D man. So the trade (because if the created cap room) adds that fourth piece. That’s a heck of a lot for Nylander, no?

 

[Legion34]

NSH - Rinne is 38 later this year, UFA in 2021-22
They go with Andersen and Saros

MIN - Dubnyk will be 35 soon, UFA in 2021-22
They go with Andersen and Stalock

CAR - Reimer and Mrazek both UFA's in 2021-22
They go with Andersen and Mrazek/prospect

DET - Howard is walking this year, they could tank again with Bernier and a prospect/cheap backup
Then sign Andersen in UFA and have Mrazek/prospect as backup

BUF - Hutton is a 2021-22 UFA
They go with Andersen and Ullmark

CAL - Talbot is a UFA this year, go with Rittich and a 1b option
Then sign Andersen if Rittich doesn't become a clear cut #1

There are options out there for him

And which ones offer him SB or long term contracts when there is no fans in the stadium?
I agree that those teams would look.
But Carolina/nash/buff are small markets with financial issues


Detroit is brutal

Minny... maybe?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Is there a 1 (Nylander) for 2 (middle 6 winger + defensive RD) package out there that does make sense?
Feel there would be more options for that then a 1 for 1 deal of Nylander for a prime aged RD.

Yes there is for sure. The problem with trading Nylander is..

- He was "overpaid" and a problem child holding out and Dubas didn't want to "sell low" and others didn't want to take on the risk.

- He came back and had an amazing season and is now looking like a great value contract which Toronto really needs, raising his price to them.

Finding a fit that makes the Leafs better, while also making another team better is very hard. The Leafs are pretty well stocked with depth players. They have bottom 6 and bottom pair D spilling out the sides. They've also seemed to have found a good system to bring in cheap depth from over seas. So what this means is, it needs to be a significant piece coming to us rather than smaller pieces as anything else makes the team worse.

The problem is from other teams, Toronto starts asking for big names, and you start thinking "I want a Marner or Matthews for that not Nylander". Other teams I am sure have offered tons of packages like you mention here but been turned down. I am sure a lot of them are players like Muzzin, really good but in their 30's and a ticking time bomb. Leafs don't want to move Nylander for someone 10 years older when their "window" has just opened.

So what type of deal would work for Nylander? Well it needs to fill a need for us. Toughness, defensive ability, fighting ability, prospects, and skill.

- Must include someone that solves at least 1 defensive problem for us. Given he is our best trade piece, we need someone coming back that can play on the top pair with Rielly. That doesn't mean a #1 D, it means someone good enough to log some hard minutes next to a #1 D who is right handed. This will likely be an older player (not 22 or 23) and the values will even out here because D > W but youth >>>>.

- Some sort of addition that makes us want to get older in the process of moving him. We likely will find it hard to replace his impact for cap hit, so the Leafs need to really nail this deal. Someone who can play in the top 9 role with some of these attributes, or some draft picks (pair of 2nds/conditional first), or some prospects that look good (not blue chip but guys who look to be solid NHLers but need a bit more time).

We will never ever agree on a trade on HF because it is HF. But this is what it takes for the Leafs to move Nylander. Otherwise, if we are asked to lose value to save money, it will be on other players who don't have as much internal value as Nylander.

What are some example deals that roughly fit that mold?

Chris Tanev (with at least a few years of term) + Virtanen
T.J Brodie (with at least a few years of term) + Bennett

Two examples I think would fit what the Leafs want. Some might say that is high and it is. He's a very good young player with term left and was on pace to hit near 40 goals this season and was a better player than Marner was.

And this price is why trading Nylander not only hasn't happened, but isn't realistic.

 

[Fatass]

Just thinking of a few teams that could use Nylander and trying to match need for Toronto:

To Cgy: Nylander

To Tor: Andersson, Mangiapane


To Ari: Nylander

To Tor: Soderstrom, Hinostroza


To Islanders: Nylander

To Tor: Dobson, 2021 1st

That Islander one saves the Leafs all of Nylander’s cap space. Could they clear a bit more room and sign Pietrangelo? Then it’s a phenomenal deal.

 

[pld459666]

Nylander for DeAngelo?

Rangers add.

But if Tor is looking g for a RD, TDA is a good option.

Reason Rangers add:

Can TDA duplicate this past seasons success? I think he can, but it's a legit question

Nylander is signed 4 more years after this one so that provides cap certainty.

What is TDA going to be looking for? I think he could be signed for 5-6 years in that 30-40 million range.

The questions surrounding TDA would justify the Leafs asking for, and getting, a sweetener.